Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

AMD Battles Megahertz Myth

Originally posted by spikey
I really think it is sad that no matter how good a chip is, companies like AMD and Apple have to compete with pure marketing strategy by intel. Pentiums are a cheaply produced, designed and manufactured chip.
Didnt the G4s gigaflops rating prevent it from shipping from america early in its life? [/B]
Click to expand...

Ok spikey:
I agree that Intel for either marketing or design reasons (or both) decided to make the trade off between long pipeline and MHZ... That does not make P4 by any way a cheaply designed or produced chip. Do you know Spikey that if you remove the fan from your Athlon the CPU will melt??????
The P4 on the other side will turn itself off.... Which one seems/feels cheapest????? I agree that the slow clocked P4s
are even outperfomed by the 1GHZ P3 but this Chip realy shines (or will) in >2ghz.
Its 400 MHZ bus makes it ideal for graphics since it can take full advantage of AGP4 thing that the 133 MHZ bus of the G4 certainly can't if you remember that the bus carries other things also other than graphics......
Finaly i am 1000% sure that INTEL can spent more money in both design or production than the crapy company called Motorola......
G4 should have reached the end os it's life for HIGH end machines as it's around for way too long time... Ok.. how may generations of Intel/AMD chips it can compete? P3, P4........ Apple's marketists will have a very bad time if Apple can't deliver G5 in January...

That's the way i see things... Of course a 867MHZ G4 compares well in some tasks with the 2GHZ P4 but for this price (or for APPLES name) that's not enough... it should really crash it the way it is marketed (to do it)...
 
****ing hell, ofcourse i know an athlon will melt.

Wow a cpu can turn itself off, good thing too cos thats all its good for.

the reasons why the P4 is a cheaply designed chip just made to be heavily marketed and distributed are as follows.

The P4 does not follow its original design (which was actually quite good) because intel wanted to push the chip out at a time when athlons were toasting P3s.....shows chip made fro marketing and not for performance.
Any chip with a 20 stage pipeline is made for marketing, do you honestly think that if consumers didnt care about Ghz then intel would have made the P4 with the pipeline it has???
Proof of the fact that intel has made a hell of alot of cheap chips is the fact that the basic design of the P3 hadnt changed since the pentium 166!!!
Any chip which has been designed for a higher clock rate rather than raw speed clock for clock , is obviously just taking advantage of intels marketing strategy.
Instead of designing a good chip like AMD did with the K7 athlon they just took an unfinished chip with a 20 stage pipeline and put it out when the market was ready for it.
I have used P4s and they are sh*te, sluggish and very inconsistent.
And by the way, dont believe all websites that give strangely nice performance figures for P4s, like alot of other companies Intel either give the reviewer a machine to work from or they just bribe them.

However ur thoughts on the G5 are much agreed.
 
Turning off

While my Athlon might not turn itself off, the mobo has a temp sensor and it will shut down programs and the computer if it gets too hot. It happened all the time because I had a crappy heatsink. Now I have a good one and no problem.
 

ok Spikey I think that we agree although we see the same think from different ways...
What I realy want to tell you is that ok... I know that a P4 CPU is in 2 MHZ for marketing reasons and I will (and am ready to) wait 2-3-6 months for a G5 or whatever. But the average person that has the money to spend right now and needs a computer will think: 2ghz vs 867mhz, 400mhz bus vs 133 bus and will end buying a P4..... And you know something??? I fell very bad to say it but I can't blame him 100%. I cam blame Apple for sticking with Motorola though....... They pissed Apple many times... and Apple contiunue to rely on them....
And something else that annoys me Spikey....
Since Apple lied to it's investors (Cube etc.... ) do you think they would have any problem to lie to its consummers????
 
Any chip with a 20 stage pipeline is made for marketing, do you honestly think that if consumers didnt care about Ghz then intel would have made the P4 with the pipeline it has???

Ah... Sorry to disagree on this one Spikey but (generaly talking) as far the performance is good I don't care if a CPU has 20 or 100 stage pipeline...
 
That's just it though-the performance ISN'T good. An Athlon XP 1.53 GHZ will beat a 2 Ghz P4 in most tests... and it costs less. From all standpoints the P4 looks like a hack job to sell processors to a clueless public. And what a wonderful job it's doing.
 

I know that! I speak in general!
However I don't think AMDs new AthlonXP CPUs should be named the way they are... For e.x both XP and 1800.... AMD should't play either Intels or Microsofts game.... And please don't tell me they didn't know the new windows would be called XP before they name their CPUs! HA!
Anyway I think that AMD, Intel, Motorola and IBM try (tried or will try) to get the most out of the todays 32 bit technology in therms of MHZ before they switch to the new generation of 64bit CPUS.
All CPUs around (Pentium-in all its forms, Ahtlon, G4 and G3) should quickly give their way to new technologies...
Do you ever wonder why the computer sales are falling???
Because someone with a 3 year G4 (or Pentium 3) can do exactly the same with someone that owns a quicksilver (or a P4)
 
re: athlon vs. P4

no fellow pc computer tech in the field tells me that the P4 is "better" than the athlon...that is a given

but the early and disappointing benchmarks of the P4 was due to the lack of programs out there which were SSE2 optimized and now that more apps could utilize this, intel has gotten the P4 up front and started to market it...at first, the newness and incopatibility issues hid the P4 info deep inside the intel website (they definitely did not want to call any attention to it)

the P4 will continue to evolve past 2 GHz and people will start asking, "Hey, this machine is not any faster than my 866!" - that is what explains the huge downturn in sales which has happened along with the saturation of computers and the injured economy

and i don't understand the huge aversion to intel a lot of mac users have...when i first strated with the aplle machines in '82 or '83, ibm was the "badguy" but now they make the G3 chip and the award winning top rated mac software, via voice (which got a headline debut on apple.com home page)

[Edited by jefhatfield on 12-19-2001 at 10:41 AM]
 
Oh i agree with you fragiledreams, motorola has got apple in some major sh*t. Overall the G4 has not done any good for apples future, its put them behind the competition. Im just hoping once they make the G5 they will be dropped by apple, and im hoping they will go out with a bang.
and i agree about the Athlon kicking P4s ass.
 
Intel Aversion

Here's what I think about this: we hate (well, dislike) Intel for the same (but opposite) reasons we like Macs: we recognize superior products and I think at least most of us don't like big corporations who get to tell the public what they want-at the expense of the more innovative and better competition.
 
big corporation

to some people like me, even apple seems like a "big corporation" and it is just the way you look at it

but certainly, the nearby intel, compaq, and hewlett-packard in the silicon valley are much larger in size and not as personal and caring as apple

...god, i hate to say this but i will (posters get ready to assault me)

but have you ever dealt with microsoft on a customer level? they are the best and most accomodating large company i have ever been in contact with as a user

...but as a microsoft tech, that is a different thing entirely and adds fuel to the name "microserf"
 
smart computing issue

smart computing, the magazine which has an issue out now, has a detailed breakdown on the amd and intel processors and the stats on the desktop, mobile, and multiprocessing chips as well as info on chipsets

it is the best comparison publication i have seen without being too techinical like scott mueller's upgrading and repairing pcs book (which is the best for techies and engineers only)
 
Supercomputer?

Think about this!

Motorola G4 867Mhz ... 7.4 Gigaflops
Intel Pentium III 1,113 Ghz ... 1,2 Gigaflops
Intel Pentium 4 2Ghz ... 1,4Gigaflops
Athlon Tbird 1,5 GhZ ... 1,9 Gigaflops
 
gigaflops

us techies and engineers know terms like this and level 2 cache and bus speed and pipelines, but as a former salesman, price is number one in importance followed by listed gigahertz speed/megahertz speed

most users do not want to go too deep into the mechanics of their cpu so in their hurried shopping experience, they don't have time to soak up all the pertinent information and make a sound engineering decision

shoppers who are outside of their safe home hate being out and are psychologically in a fight or flight mode and their analytical brain shuts off and they are operating on a brain stem kill or be killed level...where i live people used to come into the store with knives and guns and the place was crawling with 14s, bloods, crips, nortenas, surenos, and other wonderful folk (i had the thankless job of following teens ripping off games in the software aisle)

computer stores in a seventy five mile radius of where i live are always, always, always put in the worst ghetto areas probably because a circuit city looks better near an industrial area better than it does next to that quaint french cafe or saks fifth avenue

i found myself having a hard time trying to educate my mostly white, upper middle class shoppers in an area with no white people and the customers were scared to be in the neighborhood and i am a minority myself but i do not resent the large computer sales companies putting up their stores in the ghettos

by the way, i live south of san jose and the major computer stores where i live are in the relatively rough areas of seaside, sand city, campbell, east san jose, oakland, east salinas, and the "seedy" side of santa cruz...if i were a cop, in this wide geographical area i just mentioned, i couldn't think of a worse handful of areas to choose for any stores, but like i said, large warehouse type computer stores just don't look good next to saks fifth avenue

the only "nice" areas i have seen large computer stores in are in the protected shopping malls, where for some unknown reason in california, is the hotbed for shootings and gangs to meet to challege each other

as some of you older posters know, i am a volunteer social worker for heroin addicts and the homeless and i sometimes get on a social rant every now and then but i just realized that all of the major computer stores in central northern california are in areas where you don't want to send your kids alone

kinda strange wouldn't you say?
 
Context

Hold on, Back up folks. comparing Pentuims, AMD's, PowerPC Gn's, and all other processors as if they were the same is rediculous. It'd be like comparing all consumer vehicles, be they motorcycles, Musclecars, Trucks, etc. Simply put it depends on the purpose you are applying the device to. It's easy to see that a Honda motorcycle race engine and a GMC turbodiesel will have radically different load-hauling characteristics or acceleration because any fool can see the difference in design context. The real problem with the Mhz myth is that Intel and AMD have us all thinking that all internal combustion engines are designed for acceleration. Us Geeks can see that's stupid but the average consumer doesn't have any context. It'd be like trying to explain the difference between one engine and another to a gorilla. The gorilla doesn't care how fast it is, it only cares if it can heft it well enough to break coconuts. Everything else is propoganda. Most users only do word processing, E-mail, Internet and gaming. They're just breaking coconuts.
 
My Thoughts

The sad thing is that this exact forum was discussed at least 3 times before. Anyway....
The only comments I have are regarding people angry at the G4's MoBo architecture. Since the G4 is a low-Mhz CPU it doesn't take advantage of fast bus speeds, DDR Ram and stuff like ATA/100. What the G4 DOES do it kick butt with MP configs (up to 128-processors for the 7400 G4s) and G4s can also do well in multi-tasking, especially on Altivec. Believe it or not, when you run FCP3 at full-speed using the Velocity Engine you're really multi-tasking 8-bit ops on the 128-bit Vector Unit of the G4. We're reminded of the 1MB Cache vs 2MB cache. For months users bitched about the G4's "small" 1MB Cache, calling the architecture "obsolete" and "inferior". Then Sonnit came out with 2 G4 500Mhz upgrade cards, one with the default 1MB Cache, one with 2MB. What was the performance difference? Arouyd 5-10%, 10% TOPS, in PS6, running one filter. Around the same time AMD's first DDR MoBo's came out, according to AMD's (yes AMD!) charts, the AMD DDR MoBO provided 4-16% more performance. Funny because the D in DDR would suggest twice as fast. People want the G5, not because of the Mhz, but because it's designed to run off a DDR 400 Bus, with DDR 400 Ram, ATA/100, FireWire2, or SCSI160 Hard drives, and can run circles around the PS2 in game performance. Well you'll get your wish, I just wonder what clever shell they'll put it in.
 
i hope the g4 or g5 kicks serious butt in january and i hope it is the g5

i got kind of sidetracked on my last post...sorry
 
Ya learn sumthin new evry day...........

Thanks, that's more raw data on G5 than I've seen in one place B4. If you work for Apple, beware. Steve's SS has ways of making you talk.....

The trend in Apple's rather cautious processor strategy suggests that fast G3's and Apollo G4's will be all we see in the next release. Let's not ignore other signs though. We may well see nVidia chips in ALL the machines. Just having a reasonable amount of V-RAM and native 3D support on Imac would make a huge difference.

Predictions:

Imac-750 G3
-900 G3
-1Ghz G3
Add Nvidia and superdrive option. VRAM goes to 16 Megs.

Ibook- nVidia mobile chipset, 600 G3 or 750 G3

Wild drug induced hollucinations:

Flat panel, carry around 750 G4 Imac with touch screen and superdrive. Airport and cell phone built in. Looks kinda like the Apple 15" LCD without the feet. Has IR port with universal remote firmware for all consumer electronics.

Apple wireless 802.11b ISP, Comcast is just an Apple front!!!!!

All that "Idle" fibre optic that Dubyaw spoke of belongs to subsidiaries of Wozco Inc. who owns Apple, IBM, Motorolla and Disney. Steve Jobs is a servant droid prototype.

Shrooms......too....strong...........must...find...bong.....
 
you sound like you live up in my neck of the woods on the california central coast, ala ucsc, home of the banana slugs

great campus though, i used to go up there to the hungry slug pub and sing my beatnik stuff
 
$$$$$$

Let's start a company that sells 4Ghz overclocked 386's!!! We'll run a 400Mhz bus and put a 12" fan under it. We could put Windoze 98 on it and sell it to the brainwashed masses with nothing but printer, modem and keyboard connectors.

Duh, me want big Mhz footwarmer to play games and write E-mail. OOh, shiney.

(DING)

"Good boy, here's a pellet."
 
heat issues

it's so funny we are talking about melting processors but when things were .35 micron and .28 micron, we were really talking about heat...so soon we forget

intel, amd, ibm, motorola...they all have made "hot" processors, but yesterday's cool processor is today's unacceptable "hot" processor that will melt the world

we need some real context here

melting and destroying stuff is not the real concern and among literally thousands of machines i have seen as an employee and owner of my oen business, melted computers was not the issue as much as heated processors greatly slowing down the performance of a chip

a super heated AMD K6-2 300+ MHz chip could crawl down to a Pentium 1 233 MMX speed if overheated...but so what...if you are doing word 97 will that make a huge differnce

but i know graphics pros and gamers (sepecially) don't like hot systems and go to lengths of putting in non-standard fans in strange places to optimize a cool, fast, cutting edge gaming experience

if it were not for the gamers and the ridiculous amount of money they spend on software, the IT field sould not move as fast and it is funny to see business-only types who think they need to upgrade their 500 MHz computer to run the next version of wordpad or ms works faster...jeez
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back