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So you didn't read anything on the thread? That they are using very specific x86 optimised tests like cinebench to show the advantage? I'd like to see the same tests using Apple advantage weighted tests.

Oh and it'll still comparing AMDs chip against the last generation Apple M1 Chip - pro or otherwise. M3 will be out soon enough.
Did you read my post? AMD is comparing their new product to things that exist in the real world. M3 isn't here. M2 Pro isn't here. They should be, but they aren't. Apple is dropping the ball and I'm glad that AMD is calling them out.

Is AMD cherry picking benchmarks? Sure. Apple does the same thing. But the fact is, Apple is slacking. Apple has the superior core design, the superior financial resources, and the superior software stack. It's inexcusable that the M2 Pro isn't out and wiping the floor with all x86 competitors. Intel and AMD have stepped up to compete, Apple is fully capable of smacking them down, but Apple ISN'T DOING IT.
 
Indeed, it's nice to see so much competition in the space again.

I do worry though that a lot of people who didn't live through the PowerPC era really have no idea just how bad it could get for us being on a different architecture though...

Hopefully the M2 Pro/Max will be good and the M3 Pro/Max will come soon and be even better, but I feel like Apple's going to have to do better about keeping a proper release cadence for Mac chips if it wants to keep up...
PowerPC was IBM and Motorola designing the chips, the difference now is that Apple is designing the chips and merely using a foundry like TSMC to produce them. Aka, they are free to use Intel foundries once they are competitive in 2026?

Now it is a design race.. X86 vs ARM. AMD and Intel brought out the copiers to mimic Apple silicon overall design, but they still are lugging around X86 legacy crap.

However, 2023 will be apple dominating with 3NM chips. That hopefully run Ray Tracing cores or something equivalent(Ai) Apple has bought ALL the capacity at TSMC 3NM production for 2023.
 
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I'm happy to see Intel and AMD both embracing dedicated neural network hardware on their chips (Intel is rolling out similar hardware in future chip generations). I use a number or programs, mostly for photo editing which were updated to use the Neural Engine via the CoreML APIs for certain ML-related tasks like noise reduction and the performance increase over the prior Intel versions is impressive; AI powered DeepPRIME noise reduction in DxO PhotoLab used to take up to a minute per photo on my Intel MBP and it takes a matter of seconds on my M1 Pro MBP. Photoshop's massive performance gains on the M1 are also due to Adobe plugging into the Neural Engine.

It's a win for both sides - Windows users can enjoy these benefits and more developers will become increasingly used to developing for neural network hardware, which can mean better performance on the Mac side as Apple continues to improve the Neural Engine (which received a major upgrade with the A15 and M2).
 
However, 2023 will be apple dominating with 3NM chips. That hopefully run Ray Tracing cores or something equivalent(Ai) Apple has bought ALL the capacity at TSMC 3NM production for 2023.
Yeah, it's the only way Apple can win the long term chip war, with their typical anti competitive tactics.
The EU should tackle these kind of anti competitive production capacity blockade, too.

Did you read this? Yes you, the lawyers out there!
 
Did you read this? Yes you, the lawyers out there!
Oh I am sure all the lawyers love AMD press releases cautionary statement. If this press release contains inaccurate claims, there is no obligation to update or correct such information. :D

The information contained herein is for informational purposes only and is subject to change without notice. While every precaution has been taken in the preparation of this document, it may contain technical inaccuracies, omissions and typographical errors, and AMD is under no obligation to update or otherwise correct this information. Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. makes no representations or warranties with respect to the accuracy or completeness of the contents of this document, and assumes no liability of any kind, including the implied warranties of noninfringement, merchantability or fitness for particular purposes, with respect to the operation or use of AMD hardware, software or other products described herein.
 
Did you read my post? AMD is comparing their new product to things that exist in the real world. M3 isn't here. M2 Pro isn't here. They should be, but they aren't. Apple is dropping the ball and I'm glad that AMD is calling them out.

Is AMD cherry picking benchmarks? Sure. Apple does the same thing. But the fact is, Apple is slacking. Apple has the superior core design, the superior financial resources, and the superior software stack. It's inexcusable that the M2 Pro isn't out and wiping the floor with all x86 competitors. Intel and AMD have stepped up to compete, Apple is fully capable of smacking them down, but Apple ISN'T DOING IT.
No one should be surprised to see improvements in one architecture and stagnation in another. This is precisely why the Mac went from 680x0 to PowerPC and PowerPC to Intel. I'm a big fan of what Apple has done with Apple Silicone, but anyone who thinks Apple will maintain its lead forever needs to lay off the Kool-Aid. I remember all of the Apple fans trash-talking Intel when PowerPC launched. And then what happened? The PowerPC architecture hit a wall and suddenly Intel looked pretty good.

It's almost a foregone conclusion that Apple Silicone will lose it's advantage, either because of design issues or because someone else figures out how to make a better/faster chip. Will we find ourselves in a repeat of the PowerPC days? Who knows, but if history is any indicator, no chip architecture shines forever.
 
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Faster than the M1 Pro means slower than the M1 Max. Nonetheless (TSMCs) 4nm process will do wonders to make these x86 chips run cooler and more efficient. This is definitely the way to go, if you need to buy a Windows laptop. Good work AMD. 👍
 
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It's almost a foregone conclusion that Apple Silicone will lose it's advantage, either because of design issues or because someone else figures out how to make a better/faster chip. Will we find ourselves in a repeat of the PowerPC days? Who knows, but if history is any indicator, no chip architecture shines forever.
So you completely failed to notice for how many years in a row Apple had the fastest smartphone chip? All these advancements made it even possible to compete in the realm of laptop performance. And Apple is still ahead with the M1 Max on a 5nm node. Let's run the benchmarks again when Apple's 3nm chips are out.
 
Yeah, it's the only way Apple can win the long term chip war, with their typical anti competitive tactics.
The EU should tackle these kind of anti competitive production capacity blockade, too.

Did you read this? Yes you, the lawyers out there!
How is Apple anti-competitive in the chip manufacturing space? All the big companies are *reducing* their 3nm orders…
 
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So you completely failed to notice for how many years in a row Apple had the fastest smartphone chip? All these advancements made it even possible to compete in the realm of laptop performance. And Apple is still ahead with the M1 Max on a 5nm node. Let's run the benchmarks again when Apple's 3nm chips are out.
You really should work on your reading comprehension. I didn’t fail to notice anything. Nothing I said denied Apples achievements in chip design to date. But anyone who thinks Apple can’t be bested needs to lay off the Kool Aid. We’ve seen this before.
 
You really should work on your reading comprehension. I didn’t fail to notice anything. Nothing I said denied Apples achievements in chip design to date. But anyone who thinks Apple can’t be bested needs to lay off the Kool Aid. We’ve seen this before.
I didn't say, they can't be bested. It's highly unlikely, because of all the money they make from the iPhone and invest back into chip design. Still they could be bested. But you said, it's almost a foregone conclusion that Apple Silicone will lose it's advantage and I said, nope it's not.
 
I didn't say, they can't be bested. It's highly unlikely, because of all the money they make from the iPhone and invest back into chip design. Still they could be bested. But you said, it's almost a foregone conclusion that Apple Silicone will lose it's advantage and I said, nope it's not.
But it is. History is littered with examples. In fact, no chip architecture has maintained its lead forever. Do you really think Apple invests more into chip design than Intel or AMD? I doubt it. Apple has a nice lead now. Nothing guarantees that lead will last the next five years, much less forever.
 
One cornerstone of Apple silicon is energy efficiency, and in that area, AMD claims the new AMD Ryzen 7040 series will offer 30+ hours of video playback in ultrathin notebooks.
Then looking at the press release

The new AMD Ryzen 7045HX Series Mobile processors offer up to 18% faster single-threaded performance and up to an incredible 78% faster multithreaded performance over the 6900HX to deliver a huge leap in what’s possible for mobile gamers and creators. 4

4. Based on testing by AMD as of 12/23/2022. Testing results demonstrated in Far Cry 6; CS:GO; Warhammer: Dawn of War 3; League of Legends. Ryzen™ 9 7945HX system: AMD reference motherboard configured with 2x16GB DDR5-5200, Samsung 980 Pro 1TB SSD, Radeon 610M Graphics, Windows® 11 64-bit. Ryzen 9 6900HX system: Alienware M17 R5 configured with 2x16GB DDR5-4800, 1TB SSD, Radeon 6850M XT graphics, Windows 11 64-bit. System manufacturers may vary configurations, yielding different results. DRG-03
AMD is not comparing the GPU portion of a M1 Pro to a AMD Ryzen 7045HX Series Mobile processors. Instead it’s utilizing a 7945HX system. :D
 
I do not doubt its efficiency. But specific claims on how many hours of battery you will see using this CPU seem strange to me. And one problem with such claims is that you don't have any context on achieving them.

The 30 hour claim was playing back H.264 video, which is hardware accelerated. The rest of the system is sleeping until needed. The display they chose likely had a big swing on achieved time (no details on the brand, tech or brightness though).
 
Yeah, it's the only way Apple can win the long term chip war, with their typical anti competitive tactics.
The EU should tackle these kind of anti competitive production capacity blockade, too.

Did you read this? Yes you, the lawyers out there!
Money talks… Intel tried to shoulder in for 2023… AND TSMC apparently renegged a better existing deal with Apple, saying Intel should be able to come in and take capacity when Apple has an existing deal is somewhat not how the commercial relationships and world works.

Also, you should keep in mind that Apple has a LONG relationship with TSMC, they basically funded TSMC foundries etc(google it) and brought about them becoming the nr1 foundry in the world. WHY should Intel and the likes be able to come in and take priority? They made their bed, now they get to lie in it. Aka, Intel had the chance to work with Apple to build their ARM chips, but felt like it wouldn’t succeed…

Apple has built this reality together with TSMC.


BUT do not worry, Intel IS coming back very strong… Is going to take 3 years? Ofcourse because intel is too important for western chip superiority and US/Western countries felt uncomfortable w Taiwan housing the best fabs in the world. IF they didn’t save Intel, Intel would likely have died and gone bankrupt 2021-2023. Which I am happy for, Intel going bankrupt would have been very bad for the entire tech industry competition. Intel can thank the recent instabilities in the world and their strategic importance for the west, that they didn’t get deleted by Apple in 2021.


All of this is public knowledge from news.
 
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Forget about Qualcomm or Intel, AMD is what concerns me with Apple. They are making serious strides and Apple better not try to pull a stunt like they did with the M2 being only marginally better than the M1, then failing to make an M2 Ultra.

Sure, AMD would still be at the mercy of software makers to make their chips work, but it’s certainly something when you can say your chips are better than Apple’s.

Get your head out of your ass, Apple.
 
resume from sleep is horrible on windows machines
Just blame Microsoft and modern windows standby. They are the worst change since the release of Windows 10/11 21H1 or 22H1 I don’t remember. I never bother about sleep on windows machine. Always hibernate. It’s not worth losing working state for a mere few Seconds faster return from work. MacBook and macOS handles sleep way better, light years level of better. It’s not even in the same galaxy.
 
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Forget about Qualcomm or Intel, AMD is what concerns me with Apple. They are making serious strides and Apple better not try to pull a stunt like they did with the M2 being only marginally better than the M1, then failing to make an M2 Ultra.

Sure, AMD would still be at the mercy of software makers to make their chips work, but it’s certainly something when you can say your chips are better than Apple’s.
How can one equate parity with only a processor? Apple used processors they designed with TSMC, laptops they designed, and running MacOS that is theirs. What is AMD doing that is equivalent in the grander sense? ;)

To be fair let's wait to see how this fares with another manufactures laptop in the real world tests. Maybe it will spur PC laptops that are indeed benefiting energy usage.
 
I'm somewhat confused. Apple is capable of making realistic claims when it comes to battery life, as they are designing the entire laptop themselves. AMD, however, is not. This Ryzen 9 7940HS will exist in laptops that vary significantly in terms of what size of battery pack the laptop is going to be combined with. Different manufacturers are going to use different memory modules, different storage modules, different WiFi modules etc. All of these things are going to affect battery life. Especially what kind of battery pack is being used on the laptop.

That isn't really all that true. Intel makes plenty of reference designs for motherboards and laptops for the general market. A substantive fraction of the order of magnitude more laptop/desktop offerings than Apple offers that show up in the general PC market are basically just slightly warmed over reference designs that Intel has made.

AMD is behind Intel on the depth and breath of their reference design work, but it isn't zero. As AMD become less and less on the verge of bankruptcy they have gotten much better. They are much further behind on laptop reference design and 'go to market" support than Intel, but it isn't 'horrible' anymore.

However, they do try to lean on a few manufacturers to do tight feedback loop evaluations. [ Similar to how AMD 'outsources' most of the PCH-I/O work ( mainstream I/O USB , etc. ) outside. ]

Also Apple doesn't allow variability on memory modules. That makes them more controlling, not better at predicting performance of a random system in the PC market.


The variability of design myopically focusing on here doesn't necessarily lead to better chips for Apple. Where the case/product design team runs off to paint Apple into a corner the silicon team has to bail them out. Sometimes that is good and sometimes that is bad. Apple doesn't always pick the best corner to paint themselves into. There is a catch-22 , 'dual edge sword' aspect to supplying several reference designs to systems vendors by Intel (and AMD). The system designers then are more motivated to put something on top to drive some distinctive variation to attrack attention in the market. ( some perceived "value add" that others don't). As much as customers want different stuff that is an upside. Apple's "You can't have an xMac" or "can't have a large screen iMac M1 " or etc. doesn't help them cover a larger portion of the PC marketplace.




The Ryzen 9 7940HS, like pretty much every other modern CPU, doesn't come with a fixed power envelope either. So Asus might target a higher power envelope in laptop A, while Lenovo set a different target on laptop B. Power usage will not be static with this CPU.

As long as Asus and Lenovo offer up reasonably accurate specs for their system why is that particularly relevant. Users who are going to spend 99% of the time plugged in docked at a desk may pick systems A and users who are going to spend 99% running on battery will pick system B. Those users can figure it out. It isn't a "land a man on the moon " complex problem to work out.

Apple has an explicitly stated policy of not trying to make everything for everybody. They know they are cutting off some folks from a "best for some subsegment" solution. Apple decides they don't 'need' that subsegment so they just don't do it.

AMD's and Intel's business is about enabling options, not disabling them. They are in a substantively different business. AMD can't be dogmatically all about "everything for everybody" ( they aren't that big) , but they can't also cherry pick too small of a segment to cover either. Intel also is going to have problems with "everything for everybody" as AMD takes a more long term sustainable share of the market. ( some of Intel's 'do everything" was then dictating to folks what to make after they have scooped up vast majority of the profits. That isn't going to work well long term either. Over time top down mandates detached from the market like those tend to paint themselves into a corner also. )








I do not doubt its efficiency. But specific claims on how many hours of battery you will see using this CPU seem strange to me. And one problem with such claims is that you don't have any context on achieving them.

All of these "xx Hours showing video" claims are not about the CPU or vast majority of the GPU at all. It is all primarily based on how good your fixed function video decode logic runs. Apple's , Intel's , AMD's , Dell, HP , etc. running video in benchmarks is less and less about the majority of the silicon in a SoC.
 
Yeah, it's the only way Apple can win the long term chip war, with their typical anti competitive tactics.
The EU should tackle these kind of anti competitive production capacity blockade, too.

Did you read this? Yes you, the lawyers out there!

brb suing my neighbor for his production capacity blockade

that jackass bought the last two loaves of bread from the local grocer!!

Apple doesn’t have a monopoly on chip design, and TSMC doesn’t on chip manufacturing. If others are upset Apple is buying too much of TSMC’s supply, they can go elsewhere.
 
I’m glad Apple has some competition. Apple really needs a huge running drop kick to their complacency.
 
History is littered with examples. In fact, no chip architecture has maintained its lead forever.
But all those architectures competed for the same PC market, which is now nothing but a tiny niche in the margins of the giant smartphone chip market.
Do you really think Apple invests more into chip design than Intel or AMD? I doubt it.
Well, of course they do! TSMC became the largest chip maker with over >50% global market share, because their biggest customer, Apple (buying up 25% of the whole production) pushed them to build more and more factories with ever smaller process nodes. That's where the iPhone performance comes from. AMD is only able to order 4nm chips from TSMC, because the A16 Bionic paid for the factory.
Apple has a nice lead now. Nothing guarantees that lead will last the next five years, much less forever.
I'll give you a sound 25 year guarantee with an 80% chance on 50+ years and longer. There's only one company (other than Apple) left that makes any profits in the smartphone market. Which means there is already an Apple monopoly on computing. They may not make the most phones, but they make all the profit in by far the largest electronics market in history. And whoever wants to take the chip crown has to compete without money in the most money driven high-tech industry known to mankind.

profitshare.jpg
 
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