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AMD Details Radeon Pro Graphics in New 15-inch MacBook Pro Models
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Probably not the same specs. TB 3 is the big upgrade we were waiting for on the MBP.
No doubt that you would get four years from the old one. I've gotten about 8 years from mine!
Everything is soldered on. Ram, SSDs. How easy it will be to clean the fan out from time to time is the real remaining issue left to be seen from iFixit.
You drastically underestimate. The amount of people that do not need more power, and the MBP is has all the performance they need, but will appreciate the thinner form.
"I say Razer is crippling themselves by making their laptop thicker, with their performance obsession."
Okay, I am joking a little bit. but thats the point I am making.
Well, I have never seen such a silly thread. I'm glad I sit in the cMP forum most of the time. Given the basic nature of much of the conversation I stopped at page 8, so someone may have pointed this out already. However:
This is inaccurate. For one, TB3 EGPU enclosures run at x4 bandwidth. So they're still only providing a fraction of what a true PCIe 3.0 slot would offer. Granted, for many applications that limited bandwidth is still sufficient to provide a robust experience. But secondly, there's no way the processor in the new MBP has enough PCIe lanes to run its ssd and all four thunderbolt ports at even their full bandwidth. So I expect what will happen is you'll hook up your 2 raids and your two 5k displays and realize somewhere your system is bottlenecking.
This is inaccurate. For one, TB3 EGPU enclosures run at x4 bandwidth. So they're still only providing a fraction of what a true PCIe 3.0 slot would offer. Granted, for many applications that limited bandwidth is still sufficient to provide a robust experience. But secondly, there's no way the processor in the new MBP has enough PCIe lanes to run its ssd and all four thunderbolt ports at even their full bandwidth. So I expect what will happen is you'll hook up your 2 raids and your two 5k displays and realize somewhere your system is bottlenecking.
They could have made a 15" laptop with the 1060, 32GB of RAM (optional), and a SD slot and it still would have been thinner than before, and perhaps a little lighter. Battery life would have gone down a bit, but I imagine most people are going to be on bricks or a docking station for heavy/extended use.
Comparing to the Razer Pro w/ 1080 isn't realistic for Apple, but Razer's 14" model is pretty slim.
Comparing to the Razer Pro w/ 1080 isn't realistic for Apple, but Razer's 14" model is pretty slim.
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Why is everyone so angry and surprised? Are you all new to Apple? They were never going to stick a 1080 in there. I understand technology moves forward but how fast do we need a GPU to be? I'm editing 4K footage like butter on a mid 2012 MacBook Pro, the first retina one. So the 460 will huge step up for what is already a more then fast enough system. Ordered mine today and can't wait.
Not to mention that most (please actually read that people, I said "most") of the GPU crowd here seems to be discussing gaming. I'll leave you all to parse that.
copy/paste thoughts from elsewhere:
Well, some thoughts on the new MBP now that it's had time to settle in a bit:
I really don't mind the 4 USB-C / Thunderbolt 3 setup. I think it makes sense for a pro machine - they have massive bandwidth extremely versatile ports. The only device I use with a non-removeable USB-A cable is my mouse and using something like https://www.amazon.com/dp/B015Z7XE0A/ is pretty simple. I assume there will be some USB-C adapter with magenetic ends ala https://www.znaps.net so there's magsafe back essentially (and the cable is just a standard USB-C so easy to replace). I would have liked the SD port to stay, but I can grab photos directly from my Camera when tethered, though it's not as quick. The rest is just picking up some USB-C to A/B/lightning cables and keeping my old ones for charging from van/wall outlets/etc. Not having to flip my cables all the time when I plug them in is worth buying some new ones.
Ok - so we're built for an awesome docking environment (not my thing, but whatever, it's not donglegate). The emphasis on light / slim / longer battery life feels misplaced. It makes sense on phones, tablets, and airs, but what pro generally needs to work untethered for 10 hours? If they put in a GeForce 1060 (~2.5x as powerful, more power hungry), and had the option for 32GB of DDR4 RAM battery life would have dropped a bit, but they could have beefed up the battery a bit to compensate, or been happy with 7-8 hours. It'd still be smaller than the 2015 rMBP, perhaps the same weight or marginally lighter, and feel much more like a "pro" machine. It feels a bit too compromised for edge use cases - "It's so light to carry between your docking stations!" /shrug
eGPU a bit of a PITA (and you never have full bandwidth) and honestly that's my main bottleneck now. My 2011 is chugging along fine - my old i7 CPU does what I need, my eSATA SSD is fast enough, my 8GB (can expand to 16GB for $90) of DDR3 is fine for what I do (if I'm getting soldered RAM for a machine that'll last me for another 5 years I'd prefer 32GB). Lightroom doesn't recognize my GPU which is unpleasant, and obviously I'm compromised on modern gaming, but day to day use is fine. The new screen looks amazing, and the touch bar seems... neat. I don't use that top bar aside from volume control anyways, so it's a win but not super amazing.
Debating whether to keep my preordered 15" in or not actually - I imagine there might be a spring/summer refresh with Kirby Lake (not a huge deal), 32GB of RAM as an option, perhaps some kinks worked out of the touch bar.
Well, some thoughts on the new MBP now that it's had time to settle in a bit:
I really don't mind the 4 USB-C / Thunderbolt 3 setup. I think it makes sense for a pro machine - they have massive bandwidth extremely versatile ports. The only device I use with a non-removeable USB-A cable is my mouse and using something like https://www.amazon.com/dp/B015Z7XE0A/ is pretty simple. I assume there will be some USB-C adapter with magenetic ends ala https://www.znaps.net so there's magsafe back essentially (and the cable is just a standard USB-C so easy to replace). I would have liked the SD port to stay, but I can grab photos directly from my Camera when tethered, though it's not as quick. The rest is just picking up some USB-C to A/B/lightning cables and keeping my old ones for charging from van/wall outlets/etc. Not having to flip my cables all the time when I plug them in is worth buying some new ones.
Ok - so we're built for an awesome docking environment (not my thing, but whatever, it's not donglegate). The emphasis on light / slim / longer battery life feels misplaced. It makes sense on phones, tablets, and airs, but what pro generally needs to work untethered for 10 hours? If they put in a GeForce 1060 (~2.5x as powerful, more power hungry), and had the option for 32GB of DDR4 RAM battery life would have dropped a bit, but they could have beefed up the battery a bit to compensate, or been happy with 7-8 hours. It'd still be smaller than the 2015 rMBP, perhaps the same weight or marginally lighter, and feel much more like a "pro" machine. It feels a bit too compromised for edge use cases - "It's so light to carry between your docking stations!" /shrug
eGPU a bit of a PITA (and you never have full bandwidth) and honestly that's my main bottleneck now. My 2011 is chugging along fine - my old i7 CPU does what I need, my eSATA SSD is fast enough, my 8GB (can expand to 16GB for $90) of DDR3 is fine for what I do (if I'm getting soldered RAM for a machine that'll last me for another 5 years I'd prefer 32GB). Lightroom doesn't recognize my GPU which is unpleasant, and obviously I'm compromised on modern gaming, but day to day use is fine. The new screen looks amazing, and the touch bar seems... neat. I don't use that top bar aside from volume control anyways, so it's a win but not super amazing.
Debating whether to keep my preordered 15" in or not actually - I imagine there might be a spring/summer refresh with Kirby Lake (not a huge deal), 32GB of RAM as an option, perhaps some kinks worked out of the touch bar.
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1. The 1060 has already been integrated into some pretty thin laptops....if they could figure it out, I don't see why Apple couldn't.
2. On a performance-per-watt basis, Nvidia's Pascal cards absolutely smash AMD. So even if Apple had taken a 1050 and lowered its TDP by decreasing clock speed and other factors, it would still outperform this gimpy AMD card.
3. So what? Nvidia has shown it is willing to work with partners as well.
4. There area already rumors swirling about a future Nvidia + Apple partnership. I'm assuming even the folks in Cupertino can see that Nvidia is already almost a full generation ahead of AMD in terms of performance per watt, and that gap is only gonna increase given AMD's and Nvidia's wildly different R&D budgets.
Let's face it, the only real reason Apple is sticking with AMD is simply to cut costs. AMD is willing to sell cards at lower profit margins than Nvidia is. That's it.
Apple designs the case first* and then crams a computer inside. If the MRF designed a laptop computer, it would be the size of a Dell E6540, weigh ten pounds and be an awesome performer.
Only get to pick one.
*No room, no fan on 21.5" iMac hard drive. Gotta use a 2.5" 4500 RPM.
Only get to pick one.
*No room, no fan on 21.5" iMac hard drive. Gotta use a 2.5" 4500 RPM.
Apple is getting greedy in this case, seriously in Canada $3500 for a macbook its already past the cost of a used car and what I can actually do with an underpowered machine like this. Its ridiculous they have a monopoly and are taking advantage of it. TIM COOK, must go too conservative in my opinion.
Precisely. Apple has a long history of shoving mediocre components into an extraordinary chassis and saying 'Voila!' The business model works, since their ability to charge a massive premium on basic hardware nets obvious profits.
This... Is the main problem with Apple, they have become a bloody Fashion icon and not a tech company anymore.
the endless pursuit of thinner lighter etc, means less and less powerful components etc.
I think it's more that Apple doesn't want to tie their software into a proprietary solution like CUDA, despite it's advantages. OpenCL gives them flexibility in the future to use any OpenCL based devices that may come in the future, either from AMD, Intel, or if they go in house for GPU design (who knows, they might one day).
But if they go CUDA and Nvidia, they'll have to re-write their applications if they then change away from Nvidia and nvidia doesn't license CUDA out for other hardware makers
(not passing judgement o it, just my belief why)
No is expecting Apple to put ultra premium GPU’s in and sell the laptops at budget prices. Its just that when you’re paying super-premium prices, you expect super-premium parts. It’d be like buying a Ferrari and finding out it was equipped like a Chevy.
While meanwhile Chevy showcases a car equipped like a ferrari.
seriously. 2016 tech world is going all wibbly Wobbly
I would rephrase that as "Really great lasting machines if you only use them in a clean room and always wear microfibre gloves". I agree they have been awesome machines but they are nowhere close to Thinkpad, for example, for robustness outside of an office environment.
1. That is your assumption, we have never seen before a dGPU in a 1.4 cm thin chassis of a laptop.
2. This is only your assumption. Based on what we know about the GPUs, in the same thermal envelope GTX 1050 and RX 460 should have similar performance in games, and much higher performance for RX 460 for compute performance.
3. Nvidia is willing to sell the GPUs to partners, on their rules. You do not know Nvidia and their practices at all to come to this conclusion.
4. The rumors are completely baseless. The Nvidia job listing everyone was referring to was going for over 12 months on LinkedIn, before it got on Nvidia site(it got on Nvidia site, because NOBODY IS INTERESTED in it).
5. RX 460 and GTX 1050 have the same cost. It has nothing to do with costs, but with policy and optimization of software for AMD hardware.
I get that GPUs are important but there are trade offs in any product design and that's usually where Apple excels.
For example, you want more power, but what's the effect on battery life and thermal and noise characteristics?
The razer falls short in all those areas compared to MBP.
http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-Pro-460.181783.0.html - seems like it'll be roughly on par with the GPU in the Surface Book (675).
http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-RX-460.171187.0.html
This is actually the performance you can expect from this little GPU.
This is actually the performance you can expect from this little GPU.
1. Most of the height of a GPU is cooling. The Nvidia laptop components aren't ridiculously thick to begin with, shrinking it down isn't out of the question. Please stop acting as if there is some huge technical reason behind Apple's decision...there wasn't.
2. First of all the RX 460 doesn't have 'much higher' compute performance. And the 1050 has much better thermal performance, which translates to better real-world performance in a laptop.
3. Which is good, hopefully Nvidia wouldn't be willing to put out an abomination like the RX 450 just to make Apple happy.
4. I really hope it's not a rumor because I do want to buy a MacBook sometime soon.
5. But their thermal characteristics are pretty different. The 1050 can run at much, much higher clock speeds. This is gold in a laptop.
In my opinion, Apple's obsession with thin-ness was great for years. But lately...it's become a bit ridiculous. It's really getting to a point where it is greatly impacting the performance of their computers just to sacrifice a few more millimeters. It's pointless. Most professionals like myself would have been much happier with a better dGPU (even a better AMD GPU). This garbage card wasn't worth the few millimeters it saved.
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The meme is wrong.. You get a 460 with 4gb at that price!
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I think the problem here is that your use needs dont match the mbp. For a businessman who travels nonstop I need a light powerful laptop, that I can hook up when in my home office and make a beast. If I whipped out an 8lb razorblade that looks like a 15 year old kids wet dream of a gaming laptop I would be mocked ruthlessly. Also 2 years in when the pc is super laggy and the mbp is humming away I'll be happy. If it breaks and I walk into one of eight apple stores within an hour of me and fix... This stuff matters to me more than the ability to play games at full bore.
Yes I wish the MacBook pro had a better GPU, but we are talking about 20% less performance on the road. Hooking up to an external gpu when needed works great for me. As for price , this is apple.. The price is the same Always..high, if you can't afford it then don't buy. It's an aspirational product and it's not your right to get it at the price you want. Vote with your wallet
For what it's worth btw my 2012 mbp retina (fully decked out) is just now becoming a problem. As for the guy who asked about civ vi my 2012 plays it totally fine...yes not highest settings but totally playable