MP 7,1 AMD RDNA 2, 6800, 6800 XT, 6900 XT MPX Modules

[th0masp]

Apple BEGAN to bring desktop computing to the masses. They've finally heard the outcry and are releasing some products the masses, the tinkerers, anybody with a few $k can customize their ideal Mac workstation. They drifted away from this for too long, and the backlash was real.

I think it's going to turn out exactly as predicted in the other thread - including a very attractive starting price.

First Mac to get excited about in ages. Also looking forward to seeing how far they push the mini form factor.

Sure, Apple's roots are not in question. Almost 50 years later they do seem like an entirely different company though. I would not expect Nintendo to go back to making card games either.

The pricing on these newly announced M1 models does not seem geared towards taking on the x86 landscape by offering a really attractive price/performance alternative, nor does the all-integrated new chip sound like you can expect a reasonably compatible desktop machine from them.

Especially after all the trouble with their dreaded T2 chip I'd be highly sceptical of any attempt to combine even more custom functionality in one package while giving users the option to connect third-party hardware to it. Some crazy person heretic might try to hook up a legacy device even!

 

[chfilm]

What is everybody's opinion on using an off the shelve 6800 in the new mac pro? I'm on the fence off shooting myself a Radeon VII to run alongside my Vega II, vs a 5700mpx module to activate USB 3 on my XDR displays, or waiting for a 3rd party 6800, as I think an MPX module will be crazy expensive again.
When can we expect driver support if at all for these new cards in OSX?

 

[IA64]

What is everybody's opinion on using an off the shelve 6800 in the new mac pro? I'm on the fence off shooting myself a Radeon VII to run alongside my Vega II, vs a 5700mpx module to activate USB 3 on my XDR displays, or waiting for a 3rd party 6800, as I think an MPX module will be crazy expensive again.
When can we expect driver support if at all for these new cards in OSX?

Who said It will activate USB3 on your XDR? source?

 

[chfilm]

Who said It will activate USB3 on your XDR? source?

I was talking about the W5700X MPX module for the XDRs because of the DSC that my Vega II doesn’t offer.

 

[bsbeamer]

When can we expect driver support if at all for these new cards in OSX?

Keep an eye on this list:

https://www.sonnettech.com/support/downloads/manuals/Compatibility_Graphics_Cards.pdf

No indication if or when it will happen. Apple ARM changed everything.

Separately - hearing of GPU glitches with hardware processing, specifically with H264, in very early Big Sur testing from colleagues. Seems no drivers were added from previous/last beta and is quite the headache to troubleshoot. Appears something MIGHT have been addressed with 5XXX drivers that could be contributing, but cannot personally confirm. Would hold off for anyone thinking about it.

 

[chfilm]

Keep an eye on this list:

https://www.sonnettech.com/support/downloads/manuals/Compatibility_Graphics_Cards.pdf

No indication if or when it will happen. Apple ARM changed everything.

Separately - hearing of GPU glitches with hardware processing, specifically with H264, in very early Big Sur testing from colleagues. Seems no drivers were added from previous/last beta and is quite the headache to troubleshoot. Appears something MIGHT have been addressed with 5XXX drivers that could be contributing, but cannot personally confirm. Would hold off for anyone thinking about it.

I hear you.. but I would be wildly surprised if Apple would suddenly stop all further AMD GPU support for intel pro machines. The W5700X couldnt be the last GPU upgrade option for our shiny new mac pro, or it would be trashcan all over again.

 

[bsbeamer]

Do not believe any prior MacPro has had official GPU upgrades from Apple that were 100% standalone without being issued as part of a BTO option on a machine available for purchase.

MPX would require an official release from Apple since it is proprietary.
Non-MPX is a different story. If it's compatible on that eGPU list, it would also be compatible via direct PCIe.

Have heard rumors the only reason W5700X was released was due to stock issues securing enough 580's to keep units moving beyond 2020. They needed a "low end" base GPU to offer in 2021 to continue moving machines. This also brought all products in line with 5XXX series. The need to manage that GPU supply/constraint no longer exists with ARM and Apple GPU.

You can not like the reality, but unless Apple decides to offer an MPX GPU upgrade for MP7,1 in the next several weeks, that situation you describe could be entirely likely. These machines are being phased out by Apple and it is entirely their goal to replace with Apple Silicon models.

They have not made the ARM GPU intentions beyond M1 clear at all, but I have little expectation non-Apple GPUs will work as intended or expected unless they somehow magically embrace Linux drivers in the OS.

 

[chfilm]

Do not believe any prior MacPro has had official GPU upgrades from Apple that were 100% standalone without being issued as part of a BTO option on a machine available for purchase.

MPX would require an official release from Apple since it is proprietary.
Non-MPX is a different story. If it's compatible on that eGPU list, it would also be compatible via direct PCIe.

Have heard rumors the only reason W5700X was released was due to stock issues securing enough 580's to keep units moving beyond 2020. They needed a "low end" base GPU to offer in 2021 to continue moving machines. This also brought all products in line with 5XXX series. The need to manage that GPU supply/constraint no longer exists with ARM and Apple GPU.

You can not like the reality, but unless Apple decides to offer an MPX GPU upgrade for MP7,1 in the next several weeks, that situation you describe could be entirely likely. These machines are being phased out by Apple and it is entirely their goal to replace with Apple Silicon models.

They have not made the ARM GPU intentions beyond M1 clear at all, but I have little expectation non-Apple GPUs will work as intended or expected unless they somehow magically embrace Linux drivers in the OS.

Your logic is sound.. I still would be shocked though and really hope this scenario won’t materialize.

 

[timerickson]

Do not believe any prior MacPro has had official GPU upgrades from Apple that were 100% standalone without being issued as part of a BTO option on a machine available for purchase.

MPX would require an official release from Apple since it is proprietary.

Apple has already released two MPX modules post-launch, the W5500X, an the W5700X. Both of which are available to purchase standalone. Mac Pro 6,1 is not a good indication of anything, as they admitted they boxed themselves into a corner.

Have heard rumors the only reason W5700X was released was due to stock issues securing enough 580's to keep units moving beyond 2020. They needed a "low end" base GPU to offer in 2021 to continue moving machines. This also brought all products in line with 5XXX series. The need to manage that GPU supply/constraint no longer exists with ARM and Apple GPU.

This makes no sense. The W5500X would replace the 580X as base config, not the W5700X.

These machines are being phased out by Apple and it is entirely their goal to replace with Apple Silicon models.

They have not made the ARM GPU intentions beyond M1 clear at all, but I have little expectation non-Apple GPUs will work as intended or expected unless they somehow magically embrace Linux drivers in the OS.

There is no solid indication that is true. If the current rumors hold, we'll see a half size Mac Pro with Apple Silicon, which will be sold alongside the full-height Mac Pro. Apple Silicon may not currently support PCIe lanes, but I'd be surprised if we don't see that in a few years time. That doesn't preclude updates to the Intel Mac Pro, even if only MPX Modules. I'd like to think they learned their lesson of the 2013 Mac Pro, and are committed to maintaining their most expensive product to date.

 

[timerickson]

Timeline:
5000 series RDNA cards announced July '19
Workstation 5000 series cards announced Nov '19
W5700X MPX Module announced Jan '20
W5700X MPX available for sale as BTO and standalone Apr '20
W5500X MPX Module available for sale BTO and standalone July '20

6000 series RDNA2 cards announced Nov '20
…

By deduction, we could be waiting til summer or fall of '21 until these MPX modules are available.

 

[chfilm]

Timeline:
5000 series RDNA cards announced July '19
Workstation 5000 series cards announced Nov '19
W5700X MPX Module announced Jan '20
W5700X MPX available for sale as BTO and standalone Apr '20
W5500X MPX Module available for sale BTO and standalone July '20

6000 series RDNA2 cards announced Nov '20
…

By deduction, we could be waiting til summer or fall of '21 until these MPX modules are available.

That’s very possible. The question is, will there be drivers support for 3rd party gpus before that, so does it make sense to hold out for that, or should i jump on one of the overpriced and no sleep mode Radeon vii on eBay....?

 

[flowrider]

Have heard rumors the only reason W5700X was released was due to stock issues securing enough 580's to keep units moving beyond 2020.

Where did you "hear" this❓

Lou

 

[bsbeamer]

From video production developer teams focused on GPU acceleration and processing. Most working on Mac have paused efforts until Apple’s GPU roadmap is cleared up. They also expect the 580 based Blackmagic eGPU to no longer be offered once existing stock is sold.

 

[goMac]

Except the W5500X is/was the replacement for the 580, not the W5700X. Making up for 580 not having enough inventory does make sense. But the W5700X wouldn't make sense as that placeholder with the W5500X.

Do not believe any prior MacPro has had official GPU upgrades from Apple that were 100% standalone without being issued as part of a BTO option on a machine available for purchase.

Not true. Most recently (with recently being relative) the 5770 was officially released as an aftermarket option for the 2008 Mac Pro by Apple. The 5870 worked, but wasn't supported by Apple on the 2008. Not sure why.

More famously, the GeForce 8800 was released for the 2006 Mac Pro. That was actually a dedicated part number sold specifically as an upgrade for that older Mac because it required an EFI32 ROM. Completely different ROM than the 2008 BTO option.

You can not like the reality, but unless Apple decides to offer an MPX GPU upgrade for MP7,1 in the next several weeks, that situation you describe could be entirely likely. These machines are being phased out by Apple and it is entirely their goal to replace with Apple Silicon models.

Hard to tell what the future holds these days. but next several weeks would be way way too soon for something like a 6900 XT. It's not even available on the PC side. I would expect 3-4 months.

The Navi 2 drivers continuing to move forward is also a good sign. Apple knew what they were doing since at least June. If they wanted that work ended they could cut it off. But Apple has changed their minds last minute before.

 

[riggieri]

No GPU/eGPU driver available for ARM source just means Apple doesn't want to show their cards. Community would be able to infer based on Big Sur ARM release.

Apple will not be able to produce a GPU with the complexity of AMD. But they love the idea of Unified memory.

My Prediction is they license Infinity Cache, and Infinity Link and possibly AMD GPU tech. Just like Microsoft and Sony. , they build their SOC to link with AMD GPU Using the above tech. And they write the drivers, so AMD doesn't have to do much work.

They have done the legwork. They wrote Metal, Rewrote it into Metal2. They have the framework.

They Made Rosetta2 so seamless, apparently it's faster than x86.

 

[Flint Ironstag]

@riggieri interesting take.

 

[chfilm]

No GPU/eGPU driver available for ARM source just means Apple doesn't want to show their cards. Community would be able to infer based on Big Sur ARM release.

Apple will not be able to produce a GPU with the complexity of AMD. But they love the idea of Unified memory.

My Prediction is they license Infinity Cache, and Infinity Link and possibly AMD GPU tech. Just like Microsoft and Sony. , they build their SOC to link with AMD GPU Using the above tech. And they write the drivers, so AMD doesn't have to do much work.

They have done the legwork. They wrote Metal, Rewrote it into Metal2. They have the framework.

They Made Rosetta2 so seamless, apparently it's faster than x86.

so you think with a next update soon there will be new GPU drivers? Interesting why they killed off egpus though. That's not good for the mac mini..

 

[ssgbryan]

so you think with a next update soon there will be new GPU drivers? Interesting why they killed off egpus though. That's not good for the mac mini..

Why would Apple care? egpus cost Apple development time and money - but Apple doesn't make any money off of it.

 

[chfilm]

Maybe is there anything in the new 11.1 beta?

 

[MisterAndrew]

It's possible the GPU included in the next Mac Pro's Apple Silicon SoC will be faster than any of these AMD GPUs. So it's hard to say if Apple will release further AMD based MPX GPU modules for the current Mac Pro. It may not make any sense.

 

[chfilm]

I think this is very possible but this is still one or two years out. Since they promised long support for this system I’m almost certain we will see another mpx module at some point. Everything else would just be a slap in the face of professional users.

 

[IA64]

It's possible the GPU included in the next Mac Pro's Apple Silicon SoC will be faster than any of these AMD GPUs. So it's hard to say if Apple will release further AMD based MPX GPU modules for the current Mac Pro. It may not make any sense.

I really doubt any GPU released by Apple will be 50% as fast as the latest AMD/Nvidia GPU. This not a single thread performance showoff.

 

[MisterAndrew]

I discovered evidence that 3 new MPX modules are imminent. Mostly likely within the next quarter or two.

 

[bsbeamer]

Gee, that would be in the next several weeks...

 

[IA64]

I discovered evidence that 3 new MPX modules are imminent. Mostly likely within the next quarter or two.

Any source please?