We got rid of signing for cards here in Australia back in 2014. That's for all Visa, MasterCard and AMEX transactions. Everything is contactless, Apple Pay, Android Pay and Chip & PIN here.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
American Express, Mastercard and Discover to Eliminate Signature Requirement for Purchases in April 2018
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I believe Scott Adams covered that topic, back in '96:
And several companies produce devices which enable exactly that:
The problem is, they're not cheap.
As a consumer, I can see how there is confusion on why signatures are a thing and why they haven't been removed earlier. But as a payment processor and merchant, signatures are an easy way to win any chargebacks or disputes that are opened after a customer makes a purchase. Having their signature helps us as merchants win any disputes that they as a custom open up, because it's essentially proof that you made the purchase as you intended to.
I'm hoping this will eliminate the need for my restaurant to have to keep all signed physical receipts for 3 years. As of right now this is a huge inconvenience for us as we only have so much room at our current location. The quicker everything switches to cloud the better.
Also I'm assuming this is related, but every time I've tried using Apple Pay in my town the cashier as always asked to see my ID and the physical credit card to go along with it. Which has entirely defeated the purpose for me.
Edit: But as noted above this has been nice to dispute any chargebacks, because having a receipt w/signature has always been helpful at any problems that may come up.
Also I'm assuming this is related, but every time I've tried using Apple Pay in my town the cashier as always asked to see my ID and the physical credit card to go along with it. Which has entirely defeated the purpose for me.
Edit: But as noted above this has been nice to dispute any chargebacks, because having a receipt w/signature has always been helpful at any problems that may come up.
I've never experienced that; it could be a regional thing. I do still have cashiers who require me to sign when I use Apple Pay, which is peculiar enough as it is. I mean, how on earth would they ever know if my signature matched?
Odd question. As the article indicates, many purchases require a signature. Happens to me all the time and also to many, many other people. This change will eliminate that need. I assume you don't have to ever sign. How do you accomplish that?
No. Influenced by how things have been done in other parts of the world far, far before Apple Pay.
Just keep thinking Apple is responsible for everything nice, though.
I can not remember the last time I signed the back of any credit cards.
I would guess that 99% of the signatures I do scribble for purchases look nothing like mine or my name. They are just scribbles.
I actually chuckle under my breath watching some people doing elaborate signatures as it it has to be correct.
I would guess that 99% of the signatures I do scribble for purchases look nothing like mine or my name. They are just scribbles.
I actually chuckle under my breath watching some people doing elaborate signatures as it it has to be correct.
I'm thinking so. As others have said before this is still a very NEW thing for a lot of people, so many business are still sticking to their old ways. Hopefully once the younger generation starts to moving into upper management, things will begin to change.
Seriously, when I travel to the US, I can't believe how backwards payments are. With all due respect, you guys don't know the stone age you've been living in. Your quote perfectly demonstrates the ridiculousness of it all.
In Canada, when you're at a restaurant and you request the bill, the server brings a wireless terminal to the table. You confirm the total, choose whether or not to add a tip, pressing buttons for 15%, 20% or custom then you tap your credit or debit card or iPhone/AppleWatch on the terminal and it's paid. Your card never leaves your hands. It's been like that for many years.
In Europe they bring the terminal to you and you enter the card and process the transaction. Things are definitely backwards here.
Yay, I always find it weirdly inconvenient to need to also sign after using my freaking finger print or now my face to prove I'm me using the card. This will make me want to use Apple Pay even more, I think.
It's likely just a money & training thing. American restaurants pretty much all have terminals that the wait staff brings credit cards to. To switch to the way things are in Canada will cost them quite a bit of money. Each restaurant will need to install and/or upgrade wifi to support a private secured network that only the wireless payment terminals have access to, and they'll have to invest in a handful of those terminals as well.
With a bit of luck Visa, MC, etc. will use a carrot & stick approach to get this to roll out. Convince the restaurants, etc. that it's in their best interest to stop requiring signatures, but only let them do that if they switch to using these wireless payment terminals.
[doublepost=1513028782][/doublepost]
It's for us Yanks to come up to visit the Great White North. I have a US-based credit card that charges no fees on international purchases, so I use it whenever I travel abroad. It also has a PIN encoded into it for international travel. But my understanding is that the CC itself dictates (within the EMV chip) the order of authorizations to accept. Since it's a US-based card then "signature" is first and "PIN" is second. So when I use it in Canada at a restaurant, convenience store, etc. It still causes a receipt to be spit out that I'm then asked to sign. It's only when I'm at something like a gas pump that it will accept my PIN and not insist on a signature.
Hopefully when this goes through here in the States then when folks like me visit Canada, Europe, etc. in the future they'll ignore the signature requirement altogether and just rely on the PIN...
The funny thing is if you read your card contract, it usually states that your card is not valid UNTIL you sign it !
The credit card companies are the ones who decided that chip cards and PINs were required in countries other than the US. This was for a lot of reasons, mostly about fraud:
- Other countries had far more fraud.
- Other countries did not have the realtime authorization that the US always had.
- Other countries' banks did not invest the millions that US banks did in realtime fraud detection.
- Other countries had very few banks in comparison to the thousands we have in the US.
- Credit card companies like keeping purchases simple in the US, so we continue to spend like mad.
You guys don't get that the credit card companies and banks are not trying to be that secure. If they wanted that, they'd have photo cards with thumbprint readers built in.
They're making a ton of money from fees handling "fraud" in the US. The last thing they want is for things to be so clearly secure that they can no longer charge as much. Heck, Congress has already grilled them on why their fees stayed the same after chip cards rolled out!
Last edited:
Likewise for us going north to Canada, and seeing how technologically advanced Canadian businesses are with the wireless terminals everywhere. We in the US are in the stone ages it seems, still handing our CC to some stranger who disappears with it, does who knows what, and then brings it back.
And I never understood how EMV is more secure. Anybody can steal my card and use it...stick it in a terminal and walk out of the store with anything they want...no security check or (now) a signature check. They used to compare the signature on the back of the card with the one on the signed receipt.
I guess they figure they make so much money now they can afford a certain percentage of fraud.
No eliminate places asking to see my ID with my card. The credit card was create so we wouldn't have to show our IDs like was required with a check. There's no provision for requiring to verify an ID during a credit card purchase. Stop asking.
Yep... We here in the US are barely out of the days of manual card imprinting. Such a terrible thing to behold.
I'm not sure how my life has gone on this long without the technologies enjoyed by those in the UK.
/sarcasm.
I'm not sure how my life has gone on this long without the technologies enjoyed by those in the UK.
/sarcasm.
My experience visiting Ireland was that the smallish credit card terminals (with contactless payment built in) are wireless and the server just brings it over to the table to complete the transaction. Certainly was a better process than what we have in America.
Time for a vacation outside the US. Given your username has Motown in it, I'm assuming you're just across the border from Canada to witness this first hand?
Except does it? For 20 years, at least, upscale restaurants in Miami have required I give them my photo ID with my credit card, so that I can't dispute it later by saying it wasn't my signature, because I was never there. They know I was there because they had my ID. That practice alone proves just how pointless signatures are in a credit card transaction. Half the time, my signature on a receipt or digital screen looks nothing like the signature on any kind of official file. Ever looked at your signature on a receipt the day after you ran up a sizable bar tab?
The point of the signature is supposed to be that the person running your card, compares the signature on the receipt with the signature on the back of your card, to confirm they match at point of sale. I've written "not valid with photo ID" on the back of my credit card. Guess how many times anyone has asked me for my ID? Answer: few if any. And the reason I write it, is because when I sign my credit card, anyone can use that as a means to forge my signature. So anyone can claim it's not their signature with relative ease. A signature is as worthless as the plastic it's written on, and has been for many years.
Last edited:
