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can't......steer.....back on TOPi............c...ic

This reminds me a little of that Simpons episode where Marge comes to the conclusion that she could be cool because she genuinely doesn't care to be bothered with trying to be cool or what others think of her. Marge may be correct except for the fact that she just doesn't get it.

I'm not trying to hurl personal insults, but I think there is just something fundamental about the entire concept of using effects that you're not getting. I'm curious what music you listen to. There isn't an album made that isn't e(a)ffected in some say by in external force. How do you find the true raw sound of an instrument? you may be on to something (only partially sarcastic) If you like a particular Bach record it may be greatly affected not only by the performance but the mics used, the hall where it was recorded, the quality of the vinyl-- whatever. Where do you draw the line? Is it ok to appreciate the sound of a performance improved by a rooms acoustics but not (subjectively) improved by the latest and greatest Lexicon box?

You're right about this as far as I can discern -- a lot of music sucks -- and that's all based on each persons opinion. No matter what you do you can't change the fact that a hell of a lot more people are going to buy Britney Spears than Spoon. Even if those people aren't really sure what they like. I know I'd rather have a thousand U2s, Radioheads and generally crapppy noisy indie bands running around than all the acapella 98 degrees (or whatever the hell their name is) any day.

And certainly just because someone is trying to experiment or use a lot of effects isn't going to mean they're any good. I don't think anyone would say that (maybe -- humans can be fairly unreasonable.) but it doesn't mean they'll instantly and neccissarily suck either.
 
Re: can't......steer.....back on TOPi............c...ic

Originally posted by railthinner
I'm not trying to hurl personal insults, but I think there is just something fundamental about the entire concept of using effects that you're not getting. I'm curious what music you listen to. There isn't an album made that isn't e(a)ffected in some say by in external force. How do you find the true raw sound of an instrument? you may be on to something (only partially sarcastic) If you like a particular Bach record it may be greatly affected not only by the performance but the mics used, the hall where it was recorded, the quality of the vinyl-- whatever. Where do you draw the line? Is it ok to appreciate the sound of a performance improved by a rooms acoustics but not (subjectively) improved by the latest and greatest Lexicon box?
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Those are very good questions. Obviously this is only my opinion, but I would introduce the concept of "soul." I only mean that figuratively - I don't believe in a "literal" soul that can be captured and poked at or whatever. That said, it's not something that's easy to pin down. If you don't understand what I mean when I say "soul," you probably never will, but soul is the reason rich musicians pay millions of dollars for Stratavarius violins and tens of thousands for 1950s Les Pauls. It's the belief that your instrument - besides it being perfectly beautiful and having a special sonority - is a tool that can affect change. It will never become obsolete, it will never break down as long as you take good care of it, and nothing better will ever come along to take its place because it is unique and irreplaceable. It ages like good wine.

If you put a Stratavarius up against a new Yamaha violin in a subjective double-blind sound quality test, the Yamaha might actually win! That doesn't matter, because the Yamaha doesn't have a heritage, it doesn't have uniqueness, it's been mass-produced in the same Japanese factory as thousands of other identical violins by workers who don't give a damn except to the extent that they get paid by a company that doesn't give a damn except to the extent that it makes money. Not a lot of soul in the Yamaha. It will still be worth something in 50 years, but nobody will really care.

I had a girlfriend who was a classical pianist. She envied how I could carry my guitar with me wherever I went; I asked, "Why don't you get a keyboard?" She said, "It's not the same." I said (yes, I said this), "Yamaha makes a keyboard that has a very good built-in grand piano modeller and it's small so you can take it anywhere." She said, "It's still not the same," and she was right. There are lots of good piano synths, but none are the same as a real piano. And they never will be, because even if they some day manage to duplicate the sound of a real piano exactly, there's always the knowledge that they aren't real pianos.

The true raw sound of the instrument is what you hear when you yourself play it. An electric guitar is its own instrument with or without being connected to an amplifier, but an amplifier is not an instrument by itself because it can't be played. It only serves to change the sound of what's connected to it. "Aha, so it's an effect." Sure, you could think of it as that. But it has soul, so it's exempt from my effects diatribe - although some recent amps have come along with their digital modelling jobbers and I have to give them a thumbs-down. (Imitating something else that does have soul is no way to project your own.) As for my 3 pedal limit: That was only arbitrary, conceived in the idea that if you're using more than 3 pedals, your guitar is going to start sounding really icky, and you've probably got no idea what you're doing and are only aimlessly stacking on pedals for the sake of stacking on pedals.

There are lots of fancy new digital technologies designed to improve music. In my mind, they harm music by sterilizing it. When you open up a MIDI editor, it's easy - and tempting! - to make all your notes fall exactly on the beats they're supposed to, when in a real performance that would never happen. You can make adjustments in MIDI for velocity / attack / sustain etc., but it's not the same as playing a real instrument. You'll never hear a screwup in digital music because it's too tempting not to put them in. Screwups are ordinarily seen as bad in a musical performance - until you start hearing nothing but "perfection" day in and day out. Then you start to miss them, because they're a part of the human element in music that's gone missing. Perfection in music accomplished in any other way than by human virtuosity destroys that music's soul.

I think I've hammered out my idea of "soul" as well as I possibly could. So now, in short: Bach has soul. Symphony orchestras have soul. Concert halls have soul. Good microphones have soul. Vinyl records have a reasonable amount of soul. Lexicon processors don't have soul.

And I assure you I've got plenty more wacky ideas where these came from. I should write a book. "Alex_ant's Guide to Being a Nut." 16 people would buy it and I could make hundreds.
You're right about this as far as I can discern -- a lot of music sucks -- and that's all based on each persons opinion. No matter what you do you can't change the fact that a hell of a lot more people are going to buy Britney Spears than Spoon. Even if those people aren't really sure what they like. I know I'd rather have a thousand U2s, Radioheads and generally crapppy noisy indie bands running around than all the acapella 98 degrees (or whatever the hell their name is) any day.

And certainly just because someone is trying to experiment or use a lot of effects isn't going to mean they're any good. I don't think anyone would say that (maybe -- humans can be fairly unreasonable.) but it doesn't mean they'll instantly and neccissarily suck either.
Click to expand...
I mostly agree with this. I think in most cases, though, artists (if they wish to be called that) who use effects fall back on them when their own ideas run out and use them as a crutch. "E minor - C - A minor: Been done. D - G - E minor - G: Been done. F - C - G: Been done! Damn! Hmm, what if I tried a flanger. No, a flanger AND a delay! AND a VST grungelizer! Yeah!" - The effects become an escape from tedious and frustrating months and years of practicing, and the reason that this is a bad thing is because effects don't pay off like practice does. Lots of very talented performers/guitarists use effects, though, and that's fine, I don't care - I just don't think it tends to do them a heck of a lot of good, and I think it's often a distraction to the listener, whether or not they realize it.
 
Well, I'm going to attempt to un-hijack this thread :D

Where should a person who is interested in guitar and electric guitar go for more information? I don't know much about different types and amps, but I'd really like to learn! :cool:
 
I remember there being a discussion about that about a month or so ago, I think in the community forums... might want to search the threads for "guitar" or "electric guitar."
 
Song at the end of "Power of X"

While we were on the topic... Does anyone know what the song at the end of the "Power of X" video was?
 
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