Analysis of Apple's Lawsuit Against Samsung, Includes iOS Device Sales Numbers

[Virtualball]

It appears from the F700's standpoint though the natural progression became TouchWiz.

Wrong. Just because a company released one phone that has a similar look as the iPhone doesn't mean their current offerings are a progression of that phone. It's a true testament as to who browses this forum if you honestly think that. The F700 didn't run an advanced OS, so it probably ran Symbian or used BREW. That means all Samsung did was create a theme. How does a theme they made 3 years prior to the Galaxy S mean it's a progression on the coding and UI they built? It doesn't. Here's a list of every Samsung phone: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Samsung_mobile_phones Now, pick out one of those and say it inspired all of their new devices 3 years later.

The F700 was an iPhone clone with a keyboard. It's depressing that people are saying that the iPhone copied its own clone.

 

[zacman]

Sigh. The iPhone is still gaining market share. Not losing market share.

You're wrong. Apple is losing marketshare for over 2 years now. Just because they are selling MORE iPhones doesn't mean they are gaining marketshare. The market grows much faster than the iPhone sales. Have a look at Nokia: In Q4/10 Nokia sold almost 7 million more smartphones but they lost about 10% marketshare. In Q1/11 Apple lost about 2% marketshare despite the fact that they sold about 2.5 million more iPhones. Just read the latest GfK numbers (needs registered account), it's all in there. NDP numbers for Q1/11 will be released next week if you trust them more.

 

[dethmaShine]

Wrong. Just because a company released one phone that has a similar look as the iPhone doesn't mean their current offerings are a progression of that phone. It's a true testament as to who browses this forum if you honestly think that. The F700 didn't run an advanced OS, so it probably ran Symbian or used BREW. That means all Samsung did was create a theme. How does a theme they made 3 years prior to the Galaxy S mean it's a progression on the coding and UI they built? It doesn't. Here's a list of every Samsung phone: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Samsung_mobile_phones Now, pick out one of those and say it inspired all of their new devices 3 years later.

The F700 was an iPhone clone with a keyboard. It's depressing that people are saying that the iPhone copied its own clone.

Just look at his post history and you'll understand that you are arguing in vain.

 

[cmaier]

Yes. People here are failing to understand the difference between traditional patents that we usually hear about here, and design patents. I believe what Apple is suing over is infringed design patents.

7 utility patents and 3 design patents, plus 3 trade dress registrations and a bunch (7? i forget) trademark registrations, plus some unregistered state-law unfair competition/trademark stuff.

 

[aohus]

WRONG. A lot of modern GUI elements are INVENTED by Apple:

http://obamapacman.com/2010/03/myth-copyright-theft-apple-stole-gui-from-xerox-parc-alto/

WRONG! They weren't invented at Apple's Cupertino HQ, they were invented back in Palo Alto (Xerox PARC).

Secondly, your source is a pro-Apple website. Thats a problem right there.

I'll give you a proper source, the NYTimes, which wrote an article on Xerox vs Apple back in 1989, untarnished, in its raw form. Your 'source' was cherry picking data.

Here is one excerpt.

Then Apple CEO John Sculley stated:

Apple may face special problems because of admissions made by its chairman, John Sculley, in his 1987 book, ''Odyssey,'' a chronicle of his split with Apple's co-founder, Steven P. Jobs. ''Much of the Macintosh technology wasn't invented in the building,'' he wrote. ''Indeed, the Mac, like the Lisa before it, was largely a conduit for technology developed'' at Xerox's Palo Alto Research Center.

^^ thats a GLARING admission, by the CEO of Apple, don't you think? Nevertheless, Xerox ended up losing that lawsuit, with some saying that by the time they filed that lawsuit it was too late. The lawsuit wasn't thrown out because they didn't have a strong case against Apple, but because of how the lawsuit was presented as is at the time.

I'm not saying that Apple stole IP from Xerox, but what I am saying is that its quite disappointing to see Apple fanboys trying to distort the past into making it seem as though Apple created the first GUI, when that is CLEARLY not the case. The GUI had its roots in Xerox PARC. That, is a FACT.

 

[dethmaShine]

You're wrong. Apple is losing marketshare for over 2 years now. Just because they are selling MORE iPhones doesn't mean they are gaining marketshare. The market grows much faster than the iPhone sales. Have a look at Nokia: In Q4/10 Nokia sold almost 7 million more smartphones but they lost about 10% marketshare. In Q1/11 Apple lost about 2% marketshare despite the fact that they sold about 2.5 million more iPhones.

Ya right.

 

[logandzwon]

Couldn't Samsung just claim that the Galaxy S line is an evolution of the Samsung F700? Pretty strong argument for samsung.

They could. Except, "Jobs unveiled the iPhone to the public on January 9, 2007 at Macworld 2007" according to Wikipedia. F700 after that; http://www.google.com/search?q=samsung+F700+announced

 

[toddybody]

Similarities aside...Samsung cannot be hurting Apple sales as a result of this line. Move on Apple

 

[dethmaShine]

WRONG! They weren't invented at Apple's Cupertino HQ, they were invented back in Palo Alto (Xerox PARC).

Secondly, your source is a pro-Apple website. Thats a problem right there.

I'll give you a proper source, the NYTimes, which wrote an article on Xerox vs Apple back in 1989, untarnished, in its raw form. Your 'source' was cherry picking data.

Here is one excerpt.

Then Apple CEO John Sculley stated:

^^ thats a GLARING admission, by the CEO of Apple, don't you think? Nevertheless, Xerox ended up losing that lawsuit, with some saying that by the time they filed that lawsuit it was too late. The lawsuit wasn't thrown out because they didn't have a strong case against Apple, but because of how the lawsuit was presented as is at the time.

I'm not saying that Apple stole IP from Xerox, but what I am is that its quite disappointing to see Apple fanboys trying to distort the past into making it seem as though Apple created the first GUI, when that is CLEARLY not the case. The GUI had its roots in Xerox PARC. That, is a FACT.

Who said Apple created the first GUI.

Jobs himself credits Xerox for their GUI.

 

[Tones2]

Boy. Why do we go back and forth like this arguing between fanboys and non. It's pointless. Nobody cares about your or my opinion, and you're not convincing anyone who disagrees with you as people NEVER change their opinions about anything ever.

I'm not why I do it either, but never again.

 

[dethmaShine]

Boy. Why do we go back and forth like this arguing between fanboys and non. It's pointless. Nobody cares about your or my opinion, and you're not convincing anyone who disagrees with you as people NEVER change their opinions about anything ever.

I'm not why I do it either, but never again.

Talking to me?

I am not trying to convince; simply stating opinions by providing facts. Problem?

 

[lsvtecjohn3]

wow @ post 2.

apple will have a hard time fighting this in court.

watch this video then
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJZBpumb0B8&feature=related

 

[Yamcha]

The First Commercial GUI

Xerox's Star workstation was the first commercial implementation of the graphical user interface. The Star was introduced in 1981 and was the inspiration for the Mac and all the other GUIs that followed.

 

[Bilbo63]

I'm not saying that Apple stole IP from Xerox, but what I am is that its quite disappointing to see Apple fanboys trying to distort the past into making it seem as though Apple created the first GUI, when that is CLEARLY not the case. The GUI had its roots in Xerox PARC. That, is a FACT.

Many of "Apple fanboys" understand that the key GUI concepts were done at Xerox and give Xerox full credit for some incredible work. It is really too bad that they (Xerox brass) didn't understand what it was that their engineers were developing.

Fortunately for Apple they "got it" and gave those same engineers the means to run with the GUI concept. Since that time, Apple has done a tremendous work expanding on those basic ideas and much of that work has been repeatedly copied.

I give Xerox full credit, their early work was nothing short of a game-changer for the entire industry.

edit... spelling. Ugh!

 

[zacman]

Ya right.

Apple Q3/09: 7 million devices and 17.1% marketshare
Apple Q3/10: 13.4 million devices (almost doubled!) but 16.7% marketshare.
Nokia Q3/09: 18 million devices and 44% marketshare
Nokia Q3/10: 29 million devices (+ 11 million!) but only 36% marketshare

So Apple sold 6.5 million more units but lost 0.4% marketshare.

Ya, right.

 

[kdarling]

That sort of misstates the test for likelihood of confusion. A consumer might, for example, believe that Apple licenses or otherwise blesses the Samsung products. That's probably good enough.

Thank you for the correction!

Please stop spreading FUD. If you knew anything about the history of the iPhone, you would know that it was announced and previewed at MacWorld 2007.

"FUD" is a big strong, don't you think? But you are correct; the F700 was shown off a couple of weeks later.

As I've said many times, 2006 was the time that everyone of us in the business (not casual consumers) knew that touchscreen phones were coming. Many companies were working on them; some quicker than others. They had no need to copy from each other; there's only a few major ways to do an all-touch phone without getting weird.

That's why Jobs felt he had to show off the iPhone before the other trade shows came along, long before it was ready for sale. He did not want to be seen as second in line. (It had nothing to do with the FCC... that's a story for the naive.)

 

[aohus]

Who said Apple created the first GUI.

Jobs himself credits Xerox for their GUI.

well, it looks as though a lot of users here still believe that Apple is the father of the GUI, when its clearly not.

 

[Bilbo63]

Xerox's Star workstation was the first commercial implementation of the graphical user interface. The Star was introduced in 1981 and was the inspiration for the Mac and all the other GUIs that followed.


Thanks for posting that Yamcha. Xerox's engineers were seriously brilliant.

Edit... stripped out the images... no need to show them again. My bad.

 

[0815]

I hope everyone has read the linked article before posting .... I strongly recommend reading it - it is very informative. And yes, while the single claims in there sound ridiculous, it is the sheer amount of them that makes the case. I don't think Apple would have filed the suit if it would have been only a view of those - but this seems to show that there was the attempt to copy way too many aspects of the iPhone and the iOS to argue that it was the 'natural evolution' of the next generation Samsung.

 

[lsvtecjohn3]

Sorry about the caps but everyone should see this:

EVERYONE: THE PICTURE POSTED HERE IS STRAIGHT FUD. THE F700 WAS NOT ANNOUNCED AT CEBIT 2006! THIS IS A LIE!

Here are the phones they announced: http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_at_cebit_2006-news-177.php

So, is it possible for a mod to get rid of this? It's trolling and FUD at its finest.

this is true Announced February 2007 Released December 2007

http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_f700-1849.php

 

[Tones2]

Talking to me?

I am not trying to convince; simply stating opinions by providing facts. Problem?

No, I was talking in general. Not at all specifically about you.

Tony

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

Are you talking about the Newton, troll?

I had a Casio Personal Diary in the late 80's that had the exact same grid.

Im not a troll either without Apple I wouldn't have a job.

 

[mrsir2009]

Hey leave Samsung alone! They're my favorite tech company after Apple

 

[dethmaShine]

The First Commercial GUI

Xerox's Star workstation was the first commercial implementation of the graphical user interface. The Star was introduced in 1981 and was the inspiration for the Mac and all the other GUIs that followed.

Oh!
So?

Apple Q3/09: 7 million devices and 17.1% marketshare
Apple Q3/10: 13.4 million devices (almost doubled!) but 16.7% marketshare.

So 6.5 million more units solds but 0.4% lose in marketshare over a year.

Ya, right.

What is the present smartphone marketshare?

well, it looks as though a lot of users here still believe that Apple is the father of the GUI, when its clearly not.

Apple mastered the GUI that Xerox gave it to them.
In other words, my mother means much more to me than God.

 

[dethmaShine]

I had a Casio Personal Diary in the late 80's that had the exact same grid.

Im not a troll either without Apple I wouldn't have a job.

Well, I am not saying apple invented the icon grid.

I am specifically pointing to the post where you say iOS's icon grid copies PalmOS. Back-tracing?