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Here's two things Apple needs to do: one, quit providing guidance and two, stop providing sales figures. As far as I know the SEC does not require either of those things. Every quarter we hear Peter Oppenheimer go into excruciating detail about channel inventory and sell in and sell through. And for what? None of Apple's competitions provide sales details like that. Last quarter even though Apple met expectations on top and bottom line the stock tanked because iPhone sales figure wasn't what Wall Street expected and Q2 guidance wasn't great. If Google can get away with providing no guidance and most, if not all of Apple's competitors can get away with not provide sales figures then Apple should do the same. Wall Street doesn't get Apple anyway, so no point in providing more than the minimum necessary.

I'm not sure if SEC requires guidance, but even if not, I don't see the upside of not issuing any. For one, we have to know that the void would be filled by analyst estimates. For another, the markets hate uncertainty more than anything, so I'd anticipate a lot of negative reaction to the very fact that guidance was being withheld.
 
I'm not sure if SEC requires guidance, but even if not, I don't see the upside of not issuing any. For one, we have to know that the void would be filled by analyst estimates. For another, the markets hate uncertainty more than anything, so I'd anticipate a lot of negative reaction to the very fact that guidance was being withheld.

The SEC does not require guidance. However, it is reasonable for shareholders to want to receive information about the company, both historical information and guesses as to the future. And it definitely helps the company's stock from trading more wildly based on rumors and speculation. And you are right that the market would probably react negatively to withholding guidance. I like Apple's guidance and earnings reports. They are nicely informative. As a shareholder with a fairly decent amount of my net worth in Apple's stock, I certainly look forward to these reports.
 
They did say 'a slight rise' for iPhone sales, and that could perhaps be due to the addition of ChinaMobile as a carrier.

I was thinking the same thing, but I'm sure many Chinese consumers are aware that the iPhone 6 is only 5 months away and has something that many Asians take for granted now, a screen size close to 5 inches.
 
Did you get the 128GB model?

iOS 7 crashed a lot at the beginning but since 7.1 it's been pretty solid on my Retina iPad mini. LTE works fine on mine. It depends on the carrier. The baseband is pretty good.

Same here, my riPad mini is amazing, in every way,added a ZAGG Keys backlit Keyboard that just clips on its my new constant companion, mobile office, devoted to MS One Drive. Its my go to!:cool:
 
There is no $1000 iPad. The most expensive iPad Air Cellular 128GB is $929.

In Finland the 128 GB 4G iPad sets you back close to $1200. I'm sure that there are even more expensive markets out there.
 
Everything is fantastic. The fact that there are no base for these numbers, the fact that if they are right they are still useless analysts, the fact that if they are wrong they are still useless, the fact that guys that weren't smart enough for medic school or engineering feel like they can dictate what's reasonable or not, the fact that even if apple just meets the worst expectations they will still make more money than google and samsung combined, the fact that even if apple only makes one dollar they still have the best products, the fact that almost all of those analysts will die before apple dies.

I would love for Apple to sell 10x less devices and go private.

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These people that say " where is the new stuff you are promising" need to switch over to a competitor and patiently await their new stuff. Problem is, the competitors' new stuff is always copied from Apple's. Every year it happens. This year, it was Touch ID. Next year, it will be Samsung adding all the iwatch features to their watch. I can't stand thieves, especially Samsung because they are so blatant about stealing Apple's idea. I can not wait till September when Apple finally releases the two bigger phones that will absolutely kill Galaxy S5 sales. The S5 will be free on contract it will be so bad in September and that still won't matter. Samsung has climbed to the top with their big phone offerings. What are they gonna do now to stop the iphone6 tsunami?? Nothing, as you just witnessed with what the S5 turned out to be. It's an S4 with a fingerprint sensor that works half the time, which means people will not use it.

Idiots work at Samsung. Why in the world would you release a fingerprint sensor that doesn't work, that will surely piss off millions of their customers, when the bigger screened iPhones are waiting in the wings to eat into half your smartphone sales? Why didn't Samsung wait for 3-4 months to get the fingerprint scanner working and then release it a month before the iphone6 comes out, and release it with a new form factor made of aluminum. They copy everything else, why not use aluminum, as Apple has shown with the 5C that aluminum phones is what consumers want. Samsung needed to WoW the market with the S5 and they knew this. And the S5 is all they could come up with? Mark my words, Samsung will be lucky to move 10 million S5's globally in the fourth qtr. Meanwhile, Apple will move 75mil units. RIP Samsung, finally.



Why wouldn't it rise YoY?

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Lol, look at this guy.

Who is ming new stuff? Samsung? Where? How? Google and chromebooks? Microsoft and Xbox?

Why is Apple forced to make new stuff even everybody is closing doors and they make 13 billion dollars per quarter?

What if Apple only makes more money than Sony/Google/Dell/HP/Moto/LG/Asus combined instead of Sony/Google/Dell/HP/Moto/LG/Asus/Microsoft combined?

What if S5 outsell the 5s? What's wrong in not being the most lucrative public company in the world for few years, like everybody else? What if they only make 1 billion dollars instead of 13?

Why can't Apple stay 4 years without new product categories, like they did between 98 and 01, 01 and 07, 07 to 10? Thanks. Forgive my ignorance.
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And there is nothing in the headline to suggest this particular "Decline" is a big deal or it is not routine, it is just what the analysts are expecting, nothing more.

Decline when tied to sales is always a pejorative adjective. A responsible headline will include year ago quarter # for comparison so that the new estimate has meaning and not left to the imagination.

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Here's two things Apple needs to do: one, quit providing guidance and two, stop providing sales figures.

OK but analyst are still going to post their own research. Without a backstop Apple guidance number they are free to say even more ridiculous things than they already do. That just makes for a more volatile stock.
 
No dude, it doesn't matter at all... especially when people talk about Apple going out of business tomorrow morning.

Who cares about profit? It's all about having fun. And no, Samsung does not make more money than Apple has a public traded company.

This is not true and hasn't really been since midway last year...

chartoftheday_1301_samsung_made_more_money_than_apple_in_q2_n.jpg


Apple's profits always spike in quarters after an iphone release and possibly the quarter after that.

Through as pointed out above who really cares?? Does it do you some good that Apple makes more money than some countries?? I could care less how much money Apple and Samsung make as long as it's enough for them to stay in business and keep innovating all is good.

Not to mention even through Samsung has consistently outstripped Apple in revenue both of these companies are small fry to some of the big oil firms.

Shell is also one of the world's most valuable companies.[3] As of January, 2013 the largest shareholder is Capital Research Global Investors with 9.85% ahead of BlackRock in second with 6.89%.[4] Shell topped the 2013 Fortune Global 500 list of the world's largest companies.[5] Royal Dutch Shell revenue was equal to 84% of the Netherlands's $555.8 billion GDP at the time.[6]

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Dutch_Shell
 
I'm not sure if SEC requires guidance, but even if not, I don't see the upside of not issuing any. For one, we have to know that the void would be filled by analyst estimates. For another, the markets hate uncertainty more than anything, so I'd anticipate a lot of negative reaction to the very fact that guidance was being withheld.

Negativity at first, but they'd get over it. Just like they did when Apple changed how it was providing guidance. Google doesn't provide guidance, and most of Apple's competitors don't provide sales figures. Why should Apple have to do both when it does them no favors.

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OK but analyst are still going to post their own research. Without a backstop Apple guidance number they are free to say even more ridiculous things than they already do. That just makes for a more volatile stock.

Which competitors of Apple have a more volatile stock because they don't provide guidance and/or sales figures?
 
Negativity at first, but they'd get over it. Just like they did when Apple changed how it was providing guidance. Google doesn't provide guidance, and most of Apple's competitors don't provide sales figures. Why should Apple have to do both when it does them no favors.

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Which competitors of Apple have a more volatile stock because they don't provide guidance and/or sales figures?

Or not get over it. One could argue that the currently depressed valuation for AAPL is in part due to the much broader targets Apple provides for guidance. Investors will generally assume they will hit closer to the lower end of the range. It surely doesn't do a lot to generate investor optimism, not that I necessarily believe that it's the responsibility of the company to generate investor optimism (as opposed to generating results).

On your second point, you could easily compare beta factors, but attributing the difference to any particular thing is basically impossible.
 
You can only MILK your product line for so long before your sales chart begins to look like a sine wave. Hey Tim, where's the new an exciting stuff you promised? While your at it where's the updated Mac mini? :rolleyes:

What is wrong with product sales looking like a wave? Are you suggesting that a successful (or new and exciting) product line would sell as many in the month before an update, than the month after being released? That, I would like to see.

Also, you do realize its only April, right?

Has Apple ever not sat on products until they feel they are ready? Would you prefer they release half baked products every 6 months and then kill them off 6 later?

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It's uncanny how this is constantly posted in analyst threads - specifically ones that predict not-so-rosy pictures.

If you tuned out, why are you posting? Why did you even bother hitting the "reply" button? How do you even know what the analyst said if you tuned out? :confused:

I agree that people commenting on something saying they dont care about has a kind of internal inconsistency. But on this issue, I think that people are just sick of reading people that appear to have less knowledge on a topic than the average techy, coming out and saying "this company will do this, that company will do the other". Its not just tech industry, reading analyst reports in any industry you have a competent knowledge about has the same effect. And that makes sense, as the analyst reports arent meant for people who already know about an industry, but for potential or existing investors who have a portfolio of shares in many industries and want a snapshot of whats happening. But i guess the people who get frustrated by analyst comments on Apple dont read many other reports.

Anyway, i think its funny reading the comments.
 
Yay, now we can say that the post-tablet era is here :rolleyes:
Oh wait, that started when the clamshell iBook came out.

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More accurate headline: "Analysts predict Apple sales based on numbers extracted from rectal cavities"

Then I guess you'll have a great opportunity to buy AAPL cheap and sell it high after they beat expectations.

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If it is done right, it could be a game changer, or at least something significant. After all, there were touch screen phones before 2007. The iPhone was the first one done right.

Why? Is there anything particularly useful about 3D?

P.S. Looking back on this, sorry for all this sarcasm. I kinda hate it myself.
 
Again, they are paid to write their comments about Apple. That doesn't automatically make them more right than those who write counterpoint for free but someone thinks their views are valuable enough to pay them for them.
Leaving aside entirely the issue of observer bias (those who agree with me are right, those who don't are idiots), someone getting paid for their "analysis" seems to have remarkably little bearing on the accuracy of their public predictions, at least as far as most tech industry punditry goes.

Take, for example, any of the pundits or analyst groups making wild predictions about netbook sales in 2008 or 2009. You can find article after article--and reports that at the time were sold for hundreds or thousands of dollars to investors by said analyst groups--predicting skyrocketing sales of netbooks into the future, including very specific, hard numbers in some of the reports. None of them--not a single one--predicted that netbook sales by this year would be a big, fat zero. Few, likewise, even suggested that the two dominant OSes in five years would be made by Apple and Google, or that MS would be struggling in the rounding error category in most markets outside traditional PCs; the closest anyone got were some Linux predictions.

That's admittedly a single example, but it's an example of a broad range of professional pundits being spectacularly wrong. There are many, many more--pick a tech stock and look at a range of analysts, or pick an analyst and look at their range of tech stock recommendations. Either way I'm willing to bet that more often than not the predictions aren't at all impressive when they stray outside the blatantly obvious.

They're not getting paid to give you good advice, they're getting paid to talk a good game. (If they were so good at picking guaranteed stocks, they'd just spend all their time and money, you know, actually trading them instead of telling other people what to do.) It's like compulsive gambling--so long as they hit occasionally, people will remember the big score and forget all the flubs. And really, if the stock market isn't compulsive gambling given a professional veneer, I don't know what it is.

And actually, in many cases, there's an active incentive for public stock pontificators to game the system if not outright lie now and then--if their private or personal fund will benefit from pumping something up by talking it up from their pulpit, why not? Jim Cramer, for example, was caught doing exactly the opposite with his own AAPL purchases of what he was recommending on the air, and he flat-out admitted to using his connections to professional analysts to pump-and-dump stocks:

"We had it down to a science in 1992: my wife would pick stocks that technically looked ready to go up, or she would keep track of merchandise to see what was down to tag ends. She would then generate a list of stocks that could move quickly on good news. Jeff would then go to work calling the companies to try to find anything good we could say about them. I would call the analysts to see if they were hearing anything. When we found a stock that looked ready technically to break out, or where the supply had been mopped up, and Jeff found something positive at the company, and I knew the analyst community didn’t know anything positive, we would load up with call options and common stock and then give the good news to our favorite analysts who liked the stock so they could go do their promotion. That would get the buzz going and we would then be able to liquidate the position into the buzz for a handsome profit."
 
Or not get over it. One could argue that the currently depressed valuation for AAPL is in part due to the much broader targets Apple provides for guidance. Investors will generally assume they will hit closer to the lower end of the range. It surely doesn't do a lot to generate investor optimism, not that I necessarily believe that it's the responsibility of the company to generate investor optimism (as opposed to generating results).

On your second point, you could easily compare beta factors, but attributing the difference to any particular thing is basically impossible.

IMO the depressed value of Apple stock right now is due Apple's head scratching decision to go quiet for 6-9 months at a time allowing others to fill the vacuum and drive the narrative. I would like to see them get back on a product schedule where they're announcing new stuff throughout the year, not just at WWDC and then in September and October.
 
IMO the depressed value of Apple stock right now is due Apple's head scratching decision to go quiet for 6-9 months at a time allowing others to fill the vacuum and drive the narrative. I would like to see them get back on a product schedule where they're announcing new stuff throughout the year, not just at WWDC and then in September and October.

I was careful to say "in part." The reaction to releasing guidance ranges was pretty negative, and I don't see where investors have gotten over it yet. The message of the ranges can be interpreted as the company not having a good handle on revenue and earnings. Then they admit a miss on the iPhone 5 mix, and suddenly it adds up to the company not having a good handle on revenue and earnings. And so it goes.

We probably agree on the growing problem of secrecy and silence. The issue isn't so much that the product release cycle isn't year-long (we know it's timed to match up with Apple's big selling seasons), as their competitors announcing "projects" that aren't actually products but stealing the spotlight just the same. Apple could play that game too, and I think they should.
 
I have little time for Wall Street. They've been fretting for over a year now about Apple not releasing a larger iPhone. Now that all signs point to a larger iPhone 6 I see articles fretting about it cannibalizing iPad mini sales. Apple hasn't released any quarterly figures yet but the chattering classes are already throwing out all the things Apple needs to do with the iPad. Jean Louis Gassee thinks Apple needs to make the iPad more like a PC. Benedict Evans thinks they need to add phone app to the mini and sell that in Asia (if Wall Street is nervous about a larger iPhone eating into iPad sales, imagine the worrying about iPhone sales if the iPad had phone capabilities, and was cheaper than an iPhone). Bottom line is you either trust that Cook & Co. know what they're doing for the long term or you don't. And if you don't, then you probably need to get out of the stock.
 
Then I guess you'll have a great opportunity to buy AAPL cheap and sell it high after they beat expectations.
Well, overall I'm up roughly 400% on AAPL (and my small initial investment is up 3,100%), so actually I have.

But as I commented, actual Apple performance seems to have little if anything to do with their stock prices. A decade ago, very early in the Jobs era, there was a run up to over $100 a share that related to absolutely nothing, and it was obvious it was a bubble to anyone paying attention. When it crashed to under $20 shortly afterward and hung around there for a while, likewise, there was no logical reason for it to be that low.

More recently, if you look at major Apple earnings announcements or product reveals, the stock price rarely responds in any logical way to what happened. They'll announce their most profitable quarter ever, and the stock will drop. They'll announce a killer new product, and the stock won't budge. Steve Jobs dies, and it barely takes a ding (and is up substantially since then, I might add). In fact, AAPL losing value shortly after major positive announcements is a historical trend.

The point is more that the stock market does not appear to treat AAPL in any rational manner, at least not in the same way as "good earnings = rising stock price" way.

Of course, that's also true of a lot of companies. It was noted recently that Yahoo, when you subtract the value of a couple of major companies that it owns a large stake in from its market cap, actually has negative value despite not being in debt, which makes no sense whatsoever. Then there's Amazon, which despite never making more than a pittance in profit on huge grosses and having a business model based entirely around not making much profit has fabulously huge P/E ratios. Maybe Yahoo will suddenly go into huge debt and Amazon will suddenly start making vast amounts of profit, but all of them are just as silly as Apple's stock price.

It's just legalized gambling masquerading as finance.
 
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