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QWERTY takes exactly one stroke per letter, whereas typing with numeric keypad can take several strokes per letter. So how exactly can you say that keypad will "always" have less strokes than a full keyboard does? Also, you need to pause for a while between letters, if the two consequative letters are behind same hardware-button, and that slows you down. And who says that you can't have predictive texting with QWERTY? I have predictive texting on my Nokia 770 Internet Tablet, and it has onscreen QWERTY-keyboard.

I realised about ten minutes after I posted that it takes the exact same amount of keystrokes, it was late at night and my brain wasnt functioning properly. So yes you're absoultely right and I stand corrected

The point i was trying to make was that text input using predictive text is quicker than using a qwerty keypad, well for me at least it is. The way you are describing texting on a phone sounds like you're not using predictive text. The reason text input is quicker is because your hands have to move a smaller distance and you can tap the keys much quicker because there are less of them. I'm not sure if i'm describing this properly, but what I'm trying to say is that I've not met anyone who is quicker on a keypad (palm or blackberry).

Jay
 
BUT the LG was announced out BEFORE the iPhone.. so how can it be a cheap knockoff?!!

No other phone will be running OSX , that is what will make the real difference in the long run,no matter how much alike they will look, IMHO .
 
I was just thinking, couldn't they be tinking about a Keyboard foir the desktop maschienes and maybe even laptops, that don't have actuall keys anymore but the same touch screens as the iphone, that wopuld be great if you ask me, you could chance the layout for every button and no more dust or liquids getting in to your key/mother board , the only thing i'm not sure on is how that would make the price of a keyboard look :D

Uh, that might work in Star Trek but I think most people like feeling a physical response when they type. While touch buttons might be good for quick and short typing, I sure wouldn't want to write anything of length on anything like that.
 
I realised about ten minutes after I posted that it takes the exact same amount of keystrokes, it was late at night and my brain wasnt functioning properly. So yes you're absoultely right and I stand corrected

The point i was trying to make was that text input using predictive text is quicker than using a qwerty keypad, well for me at least it is. The way you are describing texting on a phone sounds like you're not using predictive text. The reason text input is quicker is because your hands have to move a smaller distance and you can tap the keys much quicker because there are less of them. I'm not sure if i'm describing this properly, but what I'm trying to say is that I've not met anyone who is quicker on a keypad (palm or blackberry).

Jay

Actually, I saw where you were coming from with your first post. I use predictive text on my Razr and it is quicker than a QWERTY in IMO. Taking an example:

Take the word INTERRUPTING... 12 letters, and therefore 12 keystrokes on a QWERTY keypad. But on my Razr, I type INTERRU (or 4683778) then the 'up' button on the directional pad, and I'm ready for my next word... just 8 key strokes.

Now I know this wouldn't work all the time, with every word, but I'm just thinking of how slow I am on a normal, everyday QWERTY keypad when I only use one hand to type. With one hand, I'm much faster using predictive text.

That said, I guess you'd just get used to it. :)
 
Uh, that might work in Star Trek but I think most people like feeling a physical response when they type. While touch buttons might be good for quick and short typing, I sure wouldn't want to write anything of length on anything like that.

I'll have to admit that i'm a trekkie but since no such keyboard is around i think i would wanna try one first before dismissing it, i would think that you would just have t get used to the feeling and lack of sound from the keyboard.
I would like a keyboard that would not get al dirty between the buttons very much, and even more the fact that the layout could chance with every apllication you select on the screen, butit could be my startrek minded look on things, or even minority report aldo that goes even alot further and is not realalistic within the next couple of years.
 
I'll have to admit that i'm a trekkie but since no such keyboard is around i think i would wanna try one first before dismissing it, i would think that you would just have t get used to the feeling and lack of sound from the keyboard.
I would like a keyboard that would not get al dirty between the buttons very much, and even more the fact that the layout could chance with every apllication you select on the screen, butit could be my startrek minded look on things, or even minority report aldo that goes even alot further and is not realalistic within the next couple of years.

You might like this...

http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/

Would love to see Apple implement this technology into their machines. Doesn't get around your issue of spilt liquids etc., but...
 
Take the word INTERRUPTING... 12 letters, and therefore 12 keystrokes on a QWERTY keypad. But on my Razr, I type INTERRU (or 4683778) then the 'up' button on the directional pad, and I'm ready for my next word... just 8 key strokes.

Again: you can have predicitive text-input AND qwerty-keyboard.
 
You might like this...

http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/

Would love to see Apple implement this technology into their machines. Doesn't get around your issue of spilt liquids etc., but...


Yes , i know that keyboard , that's what gave me the idea in the first place, and i would think with a touch screen it would even be more affordable to produce and have even more possibillity's then just keyboard layouts.
 
visual voicemail with text

would be even cooler if the voicemail came as text like the spinvox who got mentioned on techcrunch this week....thats looks real useful:)
 
If the iPhone OS is truly based on leopard, i think that (along with the scaling of production) is the root cause behind the release being 6 months out. They can't release a phone that is running leopard and have people try to sync it up with tiger (well they could but then they would run into poetential problems). This means that leopard will be out certainly before the release of the phone and the two will talk with each other flawlessly.

How come people aren't getting the memo? There is only one cause for 6 month wait and that is Apple wanted to introduce it before the FCC did. No other reasons people. If they could, I'm pretty sure they would wanted to released it now while the hype is at his peak.

Also, you make no sense at all, mojohanna. For one, the iPhone is going to be able to sync with not just Mac OS X but also with MS's operating systems. Plus they showed him syncing it with Tiger. People just don't think these days do they.

I think it should be a prerequisite that you have to watch the keynote before you make ANY comments about it anywhere. Too many answers or hypothesis' have already been answered by the man himself. Go watch the keynote and then come back so you can join the (somewhat) intelligent conversation.

Thank you.
 
Again: you can have predicitive text-input AND qwerty-keyboard.

Point taken... but I was really looking at your original post on this...

QWERTY takes exactly one stroke per letter, whereas typing with numeric keypad can take several strokes per letter. So how exactly can you say that keypad will "always" have less strokes than a full keyboard does? Also, you need to pause for a while between letters, if the two consequative letters are behind same hardware-button, and that slows you down. And who says that you can't have predictive texting with QWERTY? I have predictive texting on my Nokia 770 Internet Tablet, and it has onscreen QWERTY-keyboard.

With predictive text, it doesn't take 'several strokes per letter', and you don't have to 'pause for a while between letters'. That's when you use the text input without predictive text.

But I do take your point about having predictive text with a QWERTY pad.
 
you think people will be required to purchase leopard so that they can use the iphone?? i somehow find that difficult to believe.


I completely agree, especially since iPhone is compatible with both Windows 2000/XP/Vista and Mac OS X. The synching is done through iTunes, no system wide support is needed. iPhone will work with Tiger and Leopard. May be even Panther. The reason iPhone is not yet ready is probably because of software work and FCC clearance. Remember, iPhone OS is based on Leopard. Leopard is not done yet.
 
Pre iPhone?


Can we presume this pre-dates the development of the two-finger pinch/spread seen on the iPhone? Anyone know the date on that fantastic demo above? Mr. Han made the statement that others have been working on this type of interface. Parallel development by Apple? Did they hire someone that was already working on it?

I'd like to see it on all the Apple displays. As a musician, I'd like to be able to, in the absence of a connected midi keyboard, be able to tap on a virtual keyboard or virtual stringed instrument. Heck, I can even envision a method to play a reed or brass instrument. A virtual theremin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theremin), anyone?
 
So, anyone out there still willing to bash the iPhone, or say that it will be a complete flop? Thanks... :rolleyes:

I'm not saying it's going to be a complete flop...

but...

These are my requirements for a all cell phones:
My requirements are met.
My requirements might be met.
My requirements are not met.
It needs to be a phone; Good Antenna (My Sony T610 sucks, Wife's Nokia 6600 rocks), Good Battery life (standby >2 days), Speaker Phone, Has a ringtone that sounds like a phone ringing (T610 rocks), can sync with my Mac (all contact info), GSM, Can be dropped without breaking (Nokia 6600 apparently can be thrown across the room :rolleyes: ), Display's callers picture, accepts voice command, can send contact info to another phone via bluetooth.

These are deciding factors in whether I buy an expensive cell phone:
GPS Mapping, VERY important (built-in GPS or Bluetooth GPS adapter), Displays files (pdfs at the very least), Displays pictures, Camera does not completely suck (I don't care much about this), can play games (neat, but not important), Music/Video (this is a nice feature, but I'd want a mobile version of VLC), there may be other applications I want to use over time.
---
Bottom line:
The iPhone is an awesome product with a fatal (in my case) flaw. This is due to the lack of 3rd party support. I'm betting that Apple is not going to give me GPS mapping. Without it, I cannot justify it's price.

I have no problems whatsoever with Apple ensuring the integrity and clarity of the user interface. I have no problems with them making the authors of Tom Tom, Navicore, or Route 66 jump through many hoops to make sure that the software integrates perfectly. But simply ruling out the third parties seriously hurts the value proposition of the phone.
----------

Oops. Apparently I missed the word "distribute". So no retail boxed 3rd party software. I'm ok with this. GPS mapping software does remain a make or break it proposition for justifying the costs.

I still think that 3rd party support can make or break a Smart Phone's acceptance. While it's not useful to me, having a 3rd party make this thing integrate with Exchange would be a "good thing".

Take the word INTERRUPTING... 12 letters, and therefore 12 keystrokes on a QWERTY keypad. But on my Razr, I type INTERRU (or 4683778) then the 'up' button on the directional pad, and I'm ready for my next word... just 8 key strokes.

The bash shell in Unix has had tab completion for years. Auto-completion is not dependent on input method
 
Can we presume this pre-dates the development of the two-finger pinch/spread seen on the iPhone? Anyone know the date on that fantastic demo above? Mr. Han made the statement that others have been working on this type of interface. Parallel development by Apple? Did they hire someone that was already working on it?

I'd like to see it on all the Apple displays. As a musician, I'd like to be able to, in the absence of a connected midi keyboard, be able to tap on a virtual keyboard or virtual stringed instrument. Heck, I can even envision a method to play a reed or brass instrument. A virtual theremin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theremin), anyone?

The date is in the description on that page, Feb 2006. Apple bought a companty called FingerWorks quite some time ago who had the patent on those gestures. I Han has anything that predates that stuff.

http://www.fingerworks.com/index.html

Here are some patents that may relate to the iPhone:
http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph...ch&RS=(AN/(apple+AND+computer)+AND+ABST/touch

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph...n/(apple+and+computer)+and abst/touch&d=PG01

Very cool stuff though and I hope we start seeing it in the next few years.

I'm not saying it's going to be a complete flop...

but...

These are my requirements for a all cell phones:
My requirements are met.
My requirements might be met.
My requirements are not met.
It needs to be a phone; Good Antenna (My Sony T610 sucks, Wife's Nokia 6600 rocks), Good Battery life (standby >2 days), Speaker Phone, Has a ringtone that sounds like a phone ringing (T610 rocks), can sync with my Mac (all contact info), GSM, Can be dropped without breaking (Nokia 6600 apparently can be thrown across the room :rolleyes: ), Display's callers picture, accepts voice command, can send contact info to another phone via bluetooth.

These are deciding factors in whether I buy an expensive cell phone:
GPS Mapping, VERY important (built-in GPS or Bluetooth GPS adapter), Displays files (pdfs at the very least), Displays pictures, Camera does not completely suck (I don't care much about this), can play games (neat, but not important), Music/Video (this is a nice feature, but I'd want a mobile version of VLC), there may be other applications I want to use over time.
---
Bottom line:
The iPhone is an awesome product with a fatal (in my case) flaw. This is due to the lack of 3rd party support. I'm betting that Apple is not going to give me GPS mapping. Without it, I cannot justify it's price.

I have no problems whatsoever with Apple ensuring the integrity and clarity of the user interface. I have no problems with them making the authors of Tom Tom, Navicore, or Route 66 jump through many hoops to make sure that the software integrates perfectly. But simply ruling out the third parties seriously hurts the value proposition of the phone.

Can you people read? Try this:

3rd PARTIES HAVE NOT BEEN RULED OUT!

Read that a few times. Jobs said it himself, and it was mentioned in article referenced here.

It will just not be open to everyone to create applications. Apple will just have control over the applications. That is all. As long as developers are making applications that meet Apples standard, there shouldnt be much of a problem with their apps getting through.

Heck, they could even come up with a widget certification program. Mayvbe built into dashcode that checks the coding and allows you to put your own widgets on the phone.

Obviously this would take time to setup. Heck the phone isn't even done yet. I am sure they want to focus on finishing the phone before they start letting people make apps for it.

Since nobody from Apple has said, "there will be no apps from 3rd parties," it is safe to assume we can expect it at this point. And as soon as the phone is actually done we will be hearing more about this.

iPhone in June, I think WWDC will be in June as well. Coincidence...? :cool:
 
Apple will add 3G *only* when its ready for the american market, not when the rest of the world is ready.

People should know by now:
Apple only make products for the american market. They don't really care about the rest of the world - they sell it, if it sells, thats a bonus but nothing more.

( example: osx is loaded with american dictionary only, osx ships with american orientated widgets, apple make no effort to localise these to make them useful for other parts of the world. )

Luckily for you ignorance isn't seriously painful.

Apple has not added 3G, because it's basically unavailable in the US at large, which is where they are first releasing the iPhone. The European/Asian/Other versions will most definitely be 3G. The North American countries trail nearly every other industrialized nation for the development of next generation cellular technology. So probably in the interest of starting simple, and catering to the existing market, they want to sort out GSM/EDGE first. So your first point is a Troll or ignorant.

Second, OSX is probably the most easily multilingual OS I have ever laid hands on. The "standard" OSX install supports more than a dozen languages, and has the ability to have different accounts set to use different languages. This means that a student at a Phoenix high school could use the computer in English, and the parents could use the computer in Spanish (Many of the children born of Mexican parentage can speak but not read Spanish, while their parents can only speak/read Spanish). With Windows, you have a Spanish Edition and an English Edition. Guess which one is installed in the public libraries? If it were OSX, one install could serve people of multiple tongues. So your first point is a Troll or ignorant.

Your only valid point is that the dictionary is only localized in English. Regarding Widgets, I have no idea what you're talking about. Most of the western world uses a left to right, up to down orientation for writing. OSX reflects this. Chinese, which is not oriented this way is still supported on every default install of OSX.

Futhermore, English is spoken all over the world. The use of "American" is incorrect. American is not a language, it's an adjective regarding a geographical origin. American English would be correct.

Can you people read? Try this:

3rd PARTIES HAVE NOT BEEN RULED OUT!

Read that a few times. Jobs said it himself, and it was mentioned in article referenced here.

I asked point-blank if third parties would be able to write and distribute iPhone apps and was told, point-blank, no.

Apparently this is the operative word that I missed...

My bad.
 
I wonder if the hardcore detractors are reading these forums. :rolleyes: Although I have my doubts, I have faith that Apple will provide a very wicked device. With rumor floating about that the price will be discounted with the service plan, it may do even better than the optimists project. People keep badmouthing the tie-in with Cingular, but if this was Verizon sewers would belch all the curses of every language while the earth implodes, cuz Verizon sucks.

Anyway, people have paid pretty big premiums for phones that do even less than the iPhone. My sister's sidekick III is proof of this.
 
I asked point-blank if third parties would be able to write and distribute iPhone apps and was told, point-blank, no.

Apparently this is the operative word that I missed...

My bad.

It all good. I am sorry if I was harsh. I am just getting sick of people not reading what is known and going off on a tangent about how there are no 3rd party apps.

There will be, but as you pointed out. You won't be able to make one and slap on your webpage for download.

Which for me is fine. That means we get apps that are written better. I have installed so many apps on my treo that have made it reset. Lost all my stuff. This is not phone and what Apple wants to avoid.
 
It all good. I am sorry if I was harsh. I am just getting sick of people not reading what is known and going off on a tangent about how there are no 3rd party apps.

It's cool, I had it coming ;)

There will be, but as you pointed out. You won't be able to make one and slap on your webpage for download.

Which for me is fine. That means we get apps that are written better. I have installed so many apps on my treo that have made it reset. Lost all my stuff. This is not phone and what Apple wants to avoid.

I agree completely, I just hope that Apple simply institutes a rigorous usability and Quality Control system to make sure that everything works properly.

What I'm afraid of, is that they'll stifle the 3rd party market.
 
Lots Of Good Features - One Bad Feature

The worst feature of the iPhone, IMO, is the internal battery. If the battery craps out, you are out of luck. A spare replaceable battery is a must feature of all other cell phones, particularly when recharging isn't an option.
 
The worst feature of the iPhone, IMO, is the internal battery. If the battery craps out, you are out of luck. A spare replaceable battery is a must feature of all other cell phones, particularly when recharging isn't an option.

I am going to have to disagree here.

I have a Treo. I don't carry around an extra battery. Even though I can. Most people I know don't carry extra cellphone batteries around.

If my phone dies, it dies. Thats just the way it is. However. The charging options are pretty good with the iPhone considering it is an iPod connecter. I imagine it would work with the charging brick for the iPod. Any car chargers and obviously a USB port.

The opinion on this will vary by individual of course. I wouldnt say it is a bad feature. Consider a similar device, the Treo 680 which has a removable battery (user removable).

iphonevs680gi2.jpg


Lack of removable in this case reduces greatly.

It is pretty close to cutting it in half.

.8 for the 680
.46 for the iPhone

~43% reduction.

Also note the 680 has:
1. No Wifi
2. No 4 or 8GB of flash
3. No bluetooth 2.0
4. .3 MP camera, iPhone has a 2.0MP
5. No 3.5in display
6. 4hr battery life, iPhone 5hr
7. .7 ounces heavier, 680 5.5 ounces, iPhone 4.8 ounces.
 
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