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LVdustin

macrumors regular
Jan 14, 2007
173
37
Las Vegas, NV
How is this any of her responsibility, she is the VP of Retail....Retail! She is in charge of the Apple Stores, the supply chain and management has nothing to do with her, she did her part by offering an incredible try-on experience at the stores, and when the watches begin to finally roll out, you'll be sure to know she will do a fine fine job to maintain the proper culture and awareness in the stores. She is there to promote vision and strategy, and she is doing so. No one complained about Ron Johnson when their weren't enough iPads for people in and out of the stores.
 

BeyondtheTech

macrumors 68020
Jun 20, 2007
2,146
715
Man or woman, gay or straight, fat or slim, black, white, or any shade in-between, the person's characteristics does not matter.

For me, the only reason Angela should have any blame, if any, is for her retail stores (her meaning she's apparently in charge of), is to allow preorders to take place prior to the try-on appointments.

Everything else outside of the retail aspect is someone else's issue, whether its logistics, inventory, manufacturing, assembly, whatever, and I'm sure Tim is going to have his or her head on a platter.

So what if a few boutiques have a few select higher-end models that you'd probably not buy? How is that really going to affect your particular watch preorder?
 

Ulenspiegel

macrumors 68040
Nov 8, 2014
3,212
2,486
Land of Flanders and Elsewhere
That face would've worked better on my poster. Maybe I'll fix it later.

This is brilliant! :D

I am amazed at the apologists. First they try to divert the discussion to a cul-de-sac of pseudo sexism. Then, they try to explain the fiasco with the novelty of the product. Indeed, Apple has never produced a watch, but what about the rMB? It is also a fiasco and it comes only in 3 colours and 3 versions. What is the explanaion for this failure? Why can't you buy a new computer in the shop? Why can't you buy a certain dongle for this computer up to this moment? Is it the first computer that Apple has ever launched?

Angela Ahrendts is an SVP for Retail and Online Sales.
"Retail is the process of selling consumer goods and/or services to customers through multiple channels of distribution."
 

Black Belt

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jun 15, 2007
1,040
944
California
This is brilliant! :D

I am amazed at the apologists. First they try to divert the discussion to a cul-de-sac of pseudo sexism. Then, they try to explain the fiasco with the novelty of the product. Indeed, Apple has never produced a watch, but what about the rMB? It is also a fiasco and it comes only in 3 colours and 3 versions. What is the explanaion for this failure? Why can't you buy a new computer in the shop? Why can't you buy a certain dongle for this computer up to this moment? Is it the first computer that Apple has ever launched?

Angela Ahrendts is an SVP for Retail and Online Sales.
"Retail is the process of selling consumer goods and/or services to customers through multiple channels of distribution."

Yes, the business acumen of pizza delivery boys is left wanting.
 

Mr. Buzzcut

macrumors 65816
Jul 25, 2011
1,037
488
Ohio
Man or woman, gay or straight, fat or slim, black, white, or any shade in-between, the person's characteristics does not matter.

For me, the only reason Angela should have any blame, if any, is for her retail stores (her meaning she's apparently in charge of), is to allow preorders to take place prior to the try-on appointments.

Everything else outside of the retail aspect is someone else's issue, whether its logistics, inventory, manufacturing, assembly, whatever, and I'm sure Tim is going to have his or her head on a platter.

So what if a few boutiques have a few select higher-end models that you'd probably not buy? How is that really going to affect your particular watch preorder?

I agree with you but would say that the *need* to have a product day one is the realm of a relative few. Think about pre-ordering any other product. There is rarely inventory to try. Since the two were so close with this launch, I'm not arguing a mistake was not made but the impact of it is not what you'd think from reading here. You know what you want, you place the order. You're not sure, you wait and go to the store. Seems simple to me but then again I don't need any gadget so badly that I have a breakdown if UPS isn't at my doorstep with bells on at 8am launch day.
 
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Mr. Buzzcut

macrumors 65816
Jul 25, 2011
1,037
488
Ohio
As Angela is the only visible women involved, who I again point out is not directly responsible for the main issue, which is that people who ordered very early do not have their watches. I have yet to see a good reason why she is being unfairly scapegoated, and why the person who has most responsibility, Jeff Williams seems to be getting no heat.
It is of course possible that no one is being sexist, and for some reason, unknown to me, decided that Angela should take the blaim for things which no reasonable person would expect her to be responsible for. Or it's sexism,

People often expect sexism to be overt. We all know Jobs had many failures despite his reputation here as some sort of god. No one really talks about his failures. It happens often in business that the good old boys club will celebrate a man's successes and minimize his failures. The exact opposite happens to women at such a company. We'll see what the future holds for Angela.
 

BeyondtheTech

macrumors 68020
Jun 20, 2007
2,146
715
I agree with you but would say that the *need* to have a product day one is the realm of a relative few. Think about pre-ordering any other product. There is rarely inventory to try. Since the two were so close with this launch, I'm not arguing a mistake was not made but the impact of it is not what you'd think from reading here. You know what you want, you place the order. You're not sure, you wait and go to the store. Seems simple to me but then again I don't need any gadget so badly that I have a breakdown if UPS isn't at my doorstep with bells on at 8am launch day.

Considering the fact of what many predicted - minutes after preorder time of 12:00AM PDT, ship dates quickly slipped into June, July, and even August.

There are many on this site and countless others who bought the wrong item or had buyer's remorse, whether or not it was the wrong size, color, band, or realized they were better off with WATCH instead of WATCH Sport, etc. Had they been able to choose with a try-on instead of a best-guess with photos on a website, we wouldn't have people buying multiple watches, returning them, etc.
 
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hufflematt

macrumors 68000
Mar 7, 2015
1,725
1,782
UK
Ugh. It's so lazy to condemn any criticism of a woman as sexism.

When people are angry and disappointed, they use emotive language. If we were blaming Tim Cook, we'd call him an idiot; if he was fat, we'd call him a lardarse; hell, we might call him a shirtlifter. (I'm fat and gay, so I'm allowed to say these things.)

But the language is an unhelpful distraction from the real issue. As is the pious fingerpointing by the feminism police.

The argument has two prongs.

First, the launch of the Apple Watch was either designed to be awful, or someone screwed up. It is too simplistic to say, "it's not Ahrendts fault, it's a supply issue". And the reason for that is the second prong.

Ahrendts is paid a grotesque amount of money. In order to justify such nauseating greed, she had better perform flawlessly and above expectation. She either knew about the supply issues, or she should have known. It's her job. She should then have said to Cook, "you cannot announce 24/4 as the launch date – we will not be ready". That's her job.

We have heard stories of shops with insufficient stock even for try-ons. We have heard stories of Apple reps giving wrong information. There's has been a massive failure of communication.

These are errors. These are someone's fault. If not Ahrendts, then who?

If she was paid $100,000 a year I might feel understanding. But she negotiated and accepted an unimaginably vast payroll for herself. Nothing short of universal acclaim for her excellence is good enough.
 
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ditzy

macrumors 68000
Sep 28, 2007
1,719
180
Ugh. It's so lazy to condemn any criticism of a woman as sexism.

When people are angry and disappointed, they use emotive language. If we were blaming Tim Cook, we'd call him an idiot; if he was fat, we'd call him a lardarse; hell, we might call him a shirtlifter. (I'm fat and gay, so I'm allowed to say these things.)

But the language is an unhelpful distraction from the real issue. As is the pious fingerpointing by the feminism police.

The argument has two prongs.

First, the launch of the Apple Watch was either designed to be awful, or someone screwed up. It is too simplistic to say, "it's not Ahrendts fault, it's a supply issue". And the reason for that is the second prong.

Ahrendts is paid a grotesque amount of money. In order to justify such nauseating greed, she had better perform flawlessly and above expectation. She either knew about the supply issues, or she should have known. It's her job. She should then have said to Cook, "you cannot announce 24/4 as the launch date – we will not be ready". That's her job.

We have heard stories of shops with insufficient stock even for try-ons. We have heard stories of Apple reps giving wrong information. There's has been a massive failure of communication.

These are errors. These are someone's fault. If not Ahrendts, then who?

If she was paid $100,000 a year I might feel understanding. But she negotiated and accepted an unimaginably vast payroll for herself. Nothing short of universal acclaim for her excellence is good enough.

Ok I accept that it might not be sexism but good old fashioned jealousy that she is being blamed for something that is not her fault. It is someone's fault. For supply issues that would be the SVP of Operations, Jeff Williams. She's paid a lot to do her job, not Jeff's.
It'so her job to make sure that the stores are ready for the launch, not how much product is available at launch.
And you say it's to simplistic to argue that it's a supply issue, how? It is a supply issue and that's not her fault, unless you're suggesting that they secretly have a ton of them, and are not selling them for the lols.
 

acctman

macrumors 65816
Oct 26, 2012
1,327
875
Georgia
I set my alarm for 2:45am EST on 4/10 ... decided to close my eyes for 10mins woke up at 3:40am EST :eek: nooooo ordered my watch 4-6wks :(

received my watch early on 4/24 :cool::apple: Rocking my Apple Watch like a Boss!
 

ditzy

macrumors 68000
Sep 28, 2007
1,719
180
Fine, i'll settle with the fact that you, myself and everyone else doesn't know 100% of who is responsible; directly or collectively.
with that being said, taking her out of the equation because you think it's sexist IS sexism.
and again, if everyone is immediately pointing fingers at her…that doesn't mean it's sexism either.
get your fact straight, stay on point and be objective.

I never said that she should be taken out of the equation because it's sexist, or because she's a woman. I say it because it's an inventory problem, which is Jeff Williams job.
Get your facts straight, stay on point, and be objective.
 

Ulenspiegel

macrumors 68040
Nov 8, 2014
3,212
2,486
Land of Flanders and Elsewhere
Ok I accept that it might not be sexism but good old fashioned jealousy that she is being blamed for something that is not her fault. It is someone's fault. For supply issues that would be the SVP of Operations, Jeff Williams. She's paid a lot to do her job, not Jeff's.
It'so her job to make sure that the stores are ready for the launch, not how much product is available at launch.
And you say it's to simplistic to argue that it's a supply issue, how? It is a supply issue and that's not her fault, unless you're suggesting that they secretly have a ton of them, and are not selling them for the lols.

You seem to read, but no to perceive what others post, in this case facts.
The shops were not ready for the launch as it was mentioned (no try-ons, misinformed employees etc.). The whole launch was not prepared to be exact.
Being an SVP of Retail it is her responsibility as "retail is the process of selling consumer goods" as was previously stated.
 

3square

macrumors regular
Jul 10, 2014
175
62
I never said that she should be taken out of the equation because it's sexist, or because she's a woman. I say it because it's an inventory problem, which is Jeff Williams job.
Get your facts straight, stay on point, and be objective.

since you're using my words...

There may be another reason that she has become the chosen scapegoat, and that the man who is responsible is hardly being blamed at all. But it looks like sexism to me.

get your own word straight

throwing the sexism word around to unjustly shaming us, and effectively invalidating all of our argument?
 

ditzy

macrumors 68000
Sep 28, 2007
1,719
180
You seem to read, but no to perceive what others post, in this case facts.
The shops were not ready for the launch as it was mentioned (no try-ons, misinformed employees etc.). The whole launch was not prepared to be exact.
Being an SVP of Retail it is her responsibility as "retail is the process of selling consumer goods" as was previously stated.

There were try ons it would have been better if they had started a week earlier, while the pre order stayed on the same date, so people weren't guessing what to order. That was her fault. If that was the main thrust of the critism that she was getting, that would be fair enough. She also at one point implied that the culture of massive queues, at Apple launches would be stopping, only to backtrack the next day. I rolled my eyes at that.
However the main thrust of this thread is that people are blaming her for them not having the watch yet. While interestingly I don't remember people blaming Ron Johnson when they couldn't get their iPhones straight away. While they grumbled the accepted that demand had outstripped supply. Created conspiracy theories that this was just Apple's way of increasing hype. I don't remember any one saying that Ron should be sacked.

----------

since you're using my words...



get your own word straight

throwing the sexism word around to unjustly shaming us, and effectively invalidating all of our argument?

I don't think I'm being unjust.
 

Ulenspiegel

macrumors 68040
Nov 8, 2014
3,212
2,486
Land of Flanders and Elsewhere
I don't think that there is any basis for conspiracy theories.

Most probably Apple intended to follow a new retail practice. Unfortunately it turned out to be a fiasco both in case of the :apple:Watch and the rMB.
 

ditzy

macrumors 68000
Sep 28, 2007
1,719
180
I don't think that there is any basis for conspiracy theories.

Most probably Apple intended to follow a new retail practice. Unfortunately it turned out to be a fiasco both in case of the :apple:Watch and the rMB.

That I agree with.
 

3square

macrumors regular
Jul 10, 2014
175
62
There were try ons it would have been better if they had started a week earlier, while the pre order stayed on the same date, so people weren't guessing what to order. That was her fault. If that was the main thrust of the critism that she was getting, that would be fair enough. She also at one point implied that the culture of massive queues, at Apple launches would be stopping, only to backtrack the next day. I rolled my eyes at that.
However the main thrust of this thread is that people are blaming her for them not having the watch yet. While interestingly I don't remember people blaming Ron Johnson when they couldn't get their iPhones straight away. While they grumbled the accepted that demand had outstripped supply. Created conspiracy theories that this was just Apple's way of increasing hype. I don't remember any one saying that Ron should be sacked.

----------



I don't think I'm being unjust.

HA! Ron didn't create exclusive deal with high-end fashion store and giving the finger to the loyal apple consumer.
Have you read all the shenanigans going on over at the Maxfield, LA store thread?
if it was online order only? PERIOD. that would have been better.
 

ditzy

macrumors 68000
Sep 28, 2007
1,719
180
HA! Ron didn't create exclusive deal with high-end fashion store and giving the finger to the loyal apple consumer.
Have you read all the shenanigans going on over at the Maxfield, LA store thread?
if it was online order only? PERIOD. that would have been better.

I see your point there. While the number of watches sold in the boutiques was in the end a drop in the ocean, I believe it was around 2000 though I could be wrong there. It could be perceived that Apple were chasing new customers at the expense of their regular ones.
However as Apple want the watch to be seen as fashion, backing out of deals to supply the watch to the fashion houses could have been more costly. This decision felt like a damned if you do... situation to me.
However that is a fair criticism.
 

Mac 128

macrumors 603
Apr 16, 2015
5,360
2,930
HA! Ron didn't create exclusive deal with high-end fashion store and giving the finger to the loyal apple consumer.
Have you read all the shenanigans going on over at the Maxfield, LA store thread?
if it was online order only? PERIOD. that would have been better.

Yes, I agree. Apple lied. Or at best they misrepresented the truth by saying there would be no inventory at any stores. Who knew they meant only Apple Stores. And now there's a steady supply of watches being shipped to an elitist fashion enclave. That deception was all Angela.

At the end of the day she was not in charge of manufacturing, but she was in charge of how to handle the reality that they would not have enough inventory to sell as planned. He decisions led to the current situation, which could have been handled much better.
 
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