Angry at modern Apple (post-Jobs)

Discussion in 'Apple, Inc and Tech Industry' started by garirry, Sep 21, 2015.

  1. garirry macrumors 68000

    garirry

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    #1
    I've recently been really angry about what is happening at new Apple. Pretty much since 2012 (after Steve Jobs died), Apple has been declining, and declining, and has not made anything positive or revolutionary enough to calm me down. I've been angry at this in 2013, and I feel it has become even worse this year, let me explain.

    Okay, first off, their hardware. While I think Apple is still designing great products, the problem comes in their execution or some of their functionality. For example, many computers after the rMBP do not have upgradable RAM or anything really repairable. Why? I know it can be done, there is enough space for components, and not everything has to be so glued that you have to throw it away if it's broken. I want to be able to fix things. I want to be able to repair things. This is anti-customer. Then, the iMac got updated, but this time, they somehow had this genius idea of not even making A FREAKING DOOR on the back of the 21.5" model to upgrade the RAM. I don't want to look like I'm nitpicking, but this is a very important part of computer lifespan and the slots are still there. Then there's the Mac Mini 2014. WHY??? Who the hell thought it was a good idea to remove RAM slots, remove second SATA port, and put SECURITY screws on their machine while not changing ANYTHING physically except the exchange of the FW port for the TB port? Speaking of Thunderbolt, it also annoys me how they want to promote such a non-adopted technology. Everyone uses USB. More people use FireWire than Thunderbolt. So why promote this useless crap? Why put 6 ports on the Mac Pro while keeping still 4 USB ports on it? I'm also annoyed by the iOS lineup becoming thinner and thinner and thinner and thinner and thinner to the point it becomes a piece of paper. It's unnecessary. What happened to the iPhone 6 do you think when it got thinner? It got bending issues and had a protruding camera. Oh, and the antennas look ugly as f***. Why did the iPad Air need to get thinner? Wasn't 5 millimetre thin enough? Wasn't 0.5kg light enough? It's unnecessary development. I'm not going to complain about the rMB because it is still a fairly new concept.

    Then, the software. Oh boy. First off, who thought of this amazing new idea of releasing a new system EVERY DAMN YEAR? The result of that usually means that there is less time to test the software, less time to create patches and fixes for the software, less time for the user to get used to the new OS, and in the end, it gets too many glitches and errors that a separate OS is needed to fix them (10.11 I'm looking at you). The second problem is planned obsolescence has increased massively. For some stupid reason, the moment the new OS hits the shelves, all apps are updated to no longer be compatible with the previous versions, despite being absolutely the same. It also means that old OSes get thrown in the trash much quicker. Lion no longer supports the latest iTunes despite being only 4 years old, a massive amount of apps lost support for Mountain Lion even, it just hurts everyone! It's horrible! And I'm not even getting started on old devices still supporting the latest version of OS X. It probably runs like absolute s***, and probably does it only to push the person into upgrading to a new computer, though I can't confirm this myself. iOS? Don't even get me started. A new version every year, which adds literally nothing useful to the system except plenty of bugs, and they not only run on very old devices which as I said earlier probably run very poorly, you still can't downgrade unless you jailbreak the device, and even then I'm not sure. Also, did I mention how Apple ruined iMovie and the entire iWork set as well as killed iPhoto and Aperture for the inferior Photos app? Damn.

    All I have to say in the end is that I'm really angry, especially after I heard that iTunes 12.3 doesn't support 10.7 anymore. I can only guess this is Tim Cook's doing, after all his only interests are pop music and modern media. Am I exaggerating? Maybe. But please try to still answer to me politely. Tell me what you think.
     
  2. macs4nw, Sep 21, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2015

    macs4nw macrumors 601

    macs4nw

    #2
    Yes, I will be polite, of course :D but plz don't shoot the messenger, it's just one man's opinion.

    A lot of the points you raise ring true, and the Tim Cook Apple certainly seems to be a departure from the SJ era, but not all of that is bad, i.e. their environmental initiatives, improved working conditions in the manufacturing facilities they use, social awareness and significantly increased charitable contributions. And when it comes to entrusting them with our data's security (ApplePay, iMessages, etc.), Apple still stands head and shoulders above the rest.

    However the 2015 Apple rather than 'trail-blazing', is keenly aware of what appeals to the vast majority of their clientele, and is super proficient at providing that which people want, to the delight of the shareholders, who have now come to expect and almost demand these superlative quarters. Apple knows that the 'tinkerers' have progressively dwindled to a tiny fraction of their user base, and the great majority of their customers are with almost predictable regularity swooning over the latest, glossiest, thinnest and sexiest gleaming little gadgets, so guess in which direction development is going?

    Without going too deep into your hardware points, with the upcoming Skylake chips making their appearance in the next iterations of Apple's desktops and laptops, ThunderBolt3 over the new USB-C port (the latter accepted and adopted by over 700 tech companies, including all the major ones), is coming to the Mac line-up. Even though TB1 and TB2 over that proprietary little port were a Godsend for professionals, the cost of the chip and licensing fees, not to mention the higher cost of the cables and available peripherals such as TB HDDs and Raid enclosures, kept the masses with USB. So this is a welcome change. Here are some of my earlier thoughts on the new USB-C port.

    As for software and features, yes I miss the days of two to three year cycles between new versions, even though we had to pay for them, but I'm not sure that given todays super-competitive tech climate and the exponentially more complex (and sophisticated) nature of software (with Cloud computing, synchronization between all our devices, and the various App Stores), expecting flawless software releases out-of-the-gate is realistic. As for the yearly cycles, even though they seem counter-intuitive in light of the above, for competitive reasons, I'm not sure Apple wants to or even can get rid of those, and revert to even just two year cycles.

    Don't even get me started on obsolescence, I'm non too happy that my older (wall-brick type) Airport Express no longer works with Yosemite, or at least not reliably, but I have been patiently waiting for the little black 'cube' to be upgraded with the 802.11.ac chip, at which point I'll likely buy one.

    Such is the state of affairs. I'm not enough of a pessimist to lose all hope, but I do wonder sometimes if Apple is not slowly becoming so big, that they'll fall victim to their own success. They won't be the first company this has happened to, nor will they be the last.
     
  3. roadbloc macrumors G3

    roadbloc

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    #3
    I think this thread could probably be merged with this one.

    As for your gripes OP, I find myself mostly agreeing with them. I don't bother with Apple's new hardware since they're dropping hardware I need (DVD/BluRay drives, plenty of ports for USB and ethernet slots) and I've found their software abhorrent to use since around OS X Lion was released.

    Yeah, and their premature obselencence, it's absolutely disgraceful in my opinion with regard to the price they charge for their products. Many people seem to think Apple's ecosystem isn't fragmented, but I think it is the most fragmented due to their totally lousy legacy support.
     
  4. theluggage macrumors 68030

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    #4
    I agree this is particularly silly - but on the other hand they've made OS upgrades free. Plus, its really not just Apple: Microsoft has gone through 7 versions in 15 years (Win 2000, Win XP, Vista, Win 7, Win 8, Win 8.1 and Win 10) and each of those has seen multiple "service packs" which can sometimes be as substantial as OS X versions. The fact that lots of people stuck on XP or 7 for years during the Vista and Win8 debacles was not exactly Plan A for Microsoft. Then you've got applications like Firefox and Chrome (which are virtually operating systems in themselves) that seem to download a major update every flipping time you start them. You could try Linux: Ubuntu release a new major version every six months (To be fair, there's always a long-term support version with 5 years of bugfixes, but that gets no functionality updates for 5 years unless you're techie enough to install them yourself).

    Oh, and as for non-upgradability: don't invoke the spirit of Jobs unless you've tried to crack open a Mac Classic without a torx screwdriver welded to a long metal rod (although, to be fair, they did have a few Kilovolts of sparkly death lurking inside), tried to plug an extra SD card into an iPod, or change the battery in an iPhone. The laptops don't have space for socketed memory and hatches to access it: you can't just make a hatch in a sheet of thin aluminium, it needs hinges, latches, reinforcement etc. If you look at the internal layout) the physical space where ports can be located is quite limited, and they can't be mounted on the back edge because of the display hinge (thicker PC laptops have the hinge on top of the rear edge). Apple could make thicker, chunkier machines like Dell, Lenovo etc. and, like Dell, Lenovo etc. rely on bundling sponsored adware for their profit margin. Good luck developing a complete operating system on that income...

    Firewire was obsoleted by USB 3 - deal with it. Thunderbolt does things that USB 3 can't (including allowing you to attach a firewire controller if you need it) although I suspect its now going to be obsoleted by USB3.1/USB-C.

    Thing is, the whole PC industry has been in the doldrums and it isn't ). all because of Windows 8. The PC business model is based on the 2001 being incomparably better than the 2000 model. That's not happening any more, and If Apple made a nice, upgradeable machine you'd still be happily using it 5 years later, and wondering why Apple wasn't in business any more.

    People complaining about 'planned obsolescence' tend to forget that its part of the reason that they can afford stuff. A Mac Plus cost $2600 in 1986 and if IT equipment had gone up with inflation, that would be over $5500 today. The fact that the cost of electronics has actually gone down numerically, let alone in real terms is largely due to economies of scale - and keeping people buying new kit is a big factor in scale.

    (OK, technology has been improving as well, so I won't over-emphasise the minor detail that your mouse probably now has more processing power than a 1986 Mac).
     
  5. maxsix Suspended

    maxsix

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    #5
    I agree with many of the OP's points yet Jobs was far from perfect. I don't see it so much as a line of demarcation between old and new... as much as a continuous slide towards becoming the somewhat mediocre yet premium priced ultra high volume mass market retail Emporium.

    Get your flashy gadgets drenched in shiny colors. Impress the easily amused, vain posers and those who's self worth is only as good as the gadgets their seen with.

    Welcome to Apple's Rose Gold World.
     
  6. garirry thread starter macrumors 68000

    garirry

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    #6
    Well, the iBook G3 Clamshell is easier to upgrade than the current Retina MBP. Also, just for reference, Apple products have not decreased in price since the Late-G3 era. The iMac still starts at $1299, the high-end PowerMacs still cost above $2K, and the iBook has only slightly decreased in price, going from $1599 to $1199. The price didn't change, but apparently the only thing that's important is making the computer thinner and thinner. Also, you're forgetting that Apple is currently sitting on cash. They have about $200B in cash, so why can't they either just spend it or use it for advanced development?

    Also, I would like to point out that I still have hope for Apple. I still think it'll fix itself one day, but not before Tim Cook gets fired or at least goes to a different position at Apple.
     
  7. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #7
    Yet the many consumers never really upgraded their laptops. I think its stilly to have ram soldered onto the logic board but with that said. Steve Jobs was the one that made it nearly impossible to open up the original Macintosh. So while the "new" Apple is locked down the hardware, Jobs did the same.

    How do you know they're not. Wouldn't it be silly to blow through so much cash by chasing after every trend?

    As for the pice argument. People are voting on the price with their checkbooks, i.e., they're buying the computers so why should apple reduce the price? In a similar vein, look at what happened to Dell, and HP as they raced to the bottom with lower and lower prices.
     
  8. garirry thread starter macrumors 68000

    garirry

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    #8
    I do. And guess what? Not every Apple user is a consumer. In fact, most Apple users are pros. I haven't opened the Macintosh so I don't know how hard it is to open, but every Mac post-1998 has been relatively easy to open and fix, especially compared to something like the rMBP where everything is SO glued and compressed that it's nearly IMPOSSIBLE to repair anything inside. Do you think it's a good thing that we are supposed to throw away a machine after it broke? I'm glad I can repair a 10-year old Mac that has a dead battery, or bad memory, or a broken hard drive for example. I'm a Mac collector, and thus I wish that Apple had at least some minimal respect to those.

    I somehow feel like they're investing money in the wrong barn. The made the Macbook, and while it's surprisingly thin and light, it sacrifices all ports, performance, battery, camera, and keyboard and on top of that is much more expensive and even LESS repairable or upgradable than the rMBP. Last time I checked, the MacBook Air is a great and portable machine and is STILL more repairable than the rMBP. The only thing it lacks is the Retina display, which could have been added without issue. I guess Apple will succeed in improving the rMB, however it'll take time and I'm not exactly sure whether it's worth it. Then, they invest a s***-ton of money on things like thinner iPhones, iPads, and the incredibly pointless Watch. Why not invest money in making something the customers want?

    I was mainly replying to theluggage. I was saying that considering that Apple never lowered their prices or anything like that, they have no excuse of removing upgradability, repairability, and blackmailing everyone who wasn't on their latest OS which is often glitchy as hell. You know what? I'd rather pay 50$ every two year instead of upgrading every year to a system which is barely fixed by the time the next version is out.
     
  9. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #9
    Correct and many professionals when buying new computers tend to configure them from the get go to fit their needs. Its easier from an accounting perspective to configure a new computer, write it off for 3 years and then buy a new one then to upgrade it and extend its life.

    You need a special tool. Steve Jobs went out of his way to make hard for people to open them up.

    The g4 Cube while easy to open up, was very hard to upgrade. The Mac Mini is nearly impossible to open up and that was out when Jobs was running Apple. Apple went to the pentalobe screw as well and I believe Jobs was involved with apple in making it harder to open up with them

    They are in the business of selling NEW computers so of course they want to make upgrading existing computers harder. How will they make a profit on that? They won't.
     
  10. Possumgal macrumors member

    Possumgal

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    #10
    I don't like the non-reparable trend either. RAM goes bad? Have to replace the whole logic board because the RAM is soldered in. How does that fit with being environmentally friendly? "Thin" is all important, but thin equals heat, and we all know what that does.

    The frequent upgrades are especially bad with businesses that use Macs with machinery. I know places that run old (by Apple's standards) software because they can't cough up tens of thousands of dollars to replace their plotters, large printers or other machines. I'm still a few versions back where I work because upgrading would interfere with several machines my computer runs.
     
  11. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #11
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending apple nor do I like the idea of everything is glued/sealed but I think to say this a brand new philosophy with Tim Cook, is not entirely accurate as there are plenty of examples of apple locking products down while Steve Jobs was running/connected to Apple
     
  12. garirry thread starter macrumors 68000

    garirry

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    #12
    The Mac Mini was not that difficult to repair, it's just opening it that is a bit painful because you have to use those flat metal thingies to push the cover, but that's about it.

    Easy. As long as they make beautiful and powerful computers, they will sell. Usually, when people think that the RAM in their rMBP isn't enough, they just live with it because they can't afford $2000+ for a new laptop and they don't know how to sell theirs. If Apple sold actual parts for their computers to the customers at a decent price, everyone will buy from them instead of other distributors like OWC. So if they do it right, it's a win-win situation for both us and Apple.

    Don't want to sound like a total d*ck, but I don't know what kind of philosophy is "Computers should die early, people should predict what they need to purchase, and everything should just be a magic box that is unopenable". Also, I'm fairly certain that NO macs 1998-2011 are nearly as un-upgradable as the rMBP. As I said, even the iBooks, who were an absolute bitch to open still are repairable. Steve Jobs fixed his mistakes.
     
  13. Bollockser macrumors regular

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    #13
    Tim Cook is more concerned with politically correct emoji's than fixing the bugs in the Mac OS. I tested 10.10 for several months on my 2nd Mac, and it is just too riddled with glitches to be on my main machine. I'm sticking with 10.8.5 as long as possible.
     
  14. andiwm2003 macrumors 601

    andiwm2003

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    #14
    I so agree.
    As a consequence of not agreeing with the direction Apple is going I have not upgraded my MBP since 2011 because I don't want to invest too much into Apple ecosystem. I have updated my Original iPad to a iPad Air only because Target had a killer trade in program. I only updated my 4s to the 6s because the 4s is about to die. At work I had the choice to get a MBA or a Dell XPS. I chose the Dell XPS because it's a good way to find out how much I like windows and if I might switch.

    I'm not sure but I have the feeling there are quite a lot of people who are dissatisfied and consider a switch. If there was a more computer focussed system without the obsession with thinness I would jump in a heartbeat. The thing that keeps me the most with Apple is the overall much better security of the system. If Windows gets more secure (and it will) I'm seriously considering to jump. Until then I delay Apple purchases as much as I can.
     
  15. garirry thread starter macrumors 68000

    garirry

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    #15
    Personally, I will say that I will still stay on OS X as long as it triumphs over Windows. Right now, Windows 10 is a total PoS in my opinion, but OS X is still better for now. I'm currently using a custom-built machine, because I wanted to try and see whether Windows is in fact bad or just me having a bad experience. I am currently unhappy with this computer; my graphics card causes problems, my wireless card is barely functional, my computer takes a whole minute to boot onto an SSD, and more problems. And Windows 10 is just as glitchy as Yosemite (less, but still). Good in features, poor execution. So I think I will still be returning to Apple after I'm done with this crappy computer.
    I can assure you that 10.9 isn't too glitchy, and from what I've heard 10.11 fixes most of the bugs present in 10.10. So that's something positive I guess.
     
  16. smoledman macrumors 68000

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    #16
    Apple is selling 20 million Macs per year now. Obviously they're doing something right.
     
  17. wingmanmac macrumors member

    wingmanmac

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    #17
    Not to mention the complete utter mess itunes and music app has become. I am desperatly looking for alternatives for both. Being a musician these are the apple stock apps I use for archiving. Also, try make a musicvideo in iMovie, I dare you..
     
  18. andiwm2003 macrumors 601

    andiwm2003

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    #18
    Yes, they are doing everything right for people who want to use computers and iPhone to consume Media. They are also doing it right for many users who produce apps and media. However I feel there is a group of users that was served in the past quite well and is now left out. That group are many pro's and many semi pro's that want a open and systematically organized system that is flexible, reliable, backwards compatible, expandable to an extent and open to industry standards. Apple just has different goals now and they don't match how I want to use my computer. I think I get more flexibility on the windows side, reliability and security not so much.
     
  19. east85 macrumors 65816

    east85

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    #19
    I am upset with the lack of concentration with regards to repairability as well. However I will say the latest versions of OS X run well on older Macs as long as they have ample RAM. I wish I could say the same for my iOS devices on newer software however. I was contemplating this repairability problem earlier today. I do desire to upgrade but I want to know that if my battery dies that I can simply replace the battery and not throw it away. That's not much to ask, is it? I may just buy the latest cMBP on refurb and make that my last apple computer. I don't think I can live with not being able to upgrade my RAM or change it if it goes bad. On my current MacBook 5,1 I've maxed out the ram and even added a second internal SSD where my optical drive was. It's so easy to tear this thing down honestly. I've repaired the clutch cover, disassembled the fan, installed that second SSD, replaced the battery, changed the main drive to SSD, installed extra ram, and none of it ever gave me a headache.
     
  20. ElectronGuru macrumors 65816

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    #20
    We seem to be stuck with 'necessary pairs'. Windows is open but because it's open its insecure, apple is secure but because it's secure it is closed. We laud Steve's successes but we also lament the uniform result of that success.

    To the central question: the bigger Apple gets, the more 'invisible' the technology is becoming. But those of us with glasses like to see and touch and change that technology and are being brushed aside because of it. We wanted apple to be successful but we are loosing some of what we loved and wanted more of, in the process. It's the same with cars, where wrench heads can no longer tinker.

    If I replaced Tim, I would continue the trends for consumers, people who self identify as non tech. But I would also use the existing pro model identifiers and give the pro models not only pro features but pro access. And if ram sockets cost a bit more, so be it.
     
  21. Designer Dale macrumors 68040

    Designer Dale

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    #21
    The OP misses the mark by blaming Tim Cook for his complaints. Steve introduced the current trend towards a closed hardware system with the iPod, iPhone, iPad, iMac and MacBook Air. Remember the computer delivered to the cheering crowd in an envelope? Were they actually expecting a removable drive and ram slots?

    Steve was also the driving force behind the split between OS X and iOS during early development. They could have been complementary systems instead of walled mobil and desktop systems.

    Cook took the innovations of Jobs and moved them forward much as Steve would have liked, in my opinion. Apple is successful because it does what it's customers want it to do and that's build advanced technology that enhances everyday life. People want this stuff and pay for it.

    There is a thin slice of the technology community that laments the loss of the hands on experience of computer work that was common 15 years ago. It's not coming back, friends. Either open up a catalogue and build a PC or do what I did, build a hot rod and go racing.

    Dale
     
  22. garirry thread starter macrumors 68000

    garirry

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    #22
    Not exactly. iPods and iOS devices are tiny computer-like devices that are meant to be ultra-portable, and thus was the MacBook Air's concept. Steve Jobs would NEVER reduce upgradability in a desktop or pro laptop. The rMBP is a computer that is still significantly thicker (overall) than the Air, but is much worse when it comes to upgradability, everything is glued, the display assembly is glued, the RAM is soldered, even though it's a REQUIREMENT for a PRO machine to be at least a tiny bit upgradable and repairable. The Macbook Air is a computer designed for consumer-only tasks and I can understand why it can't be upgraded. The iMac 21.5" doesn't even have a RAM door, and in the low-end model it's soldered. The Mac Mini 2014 was downgraded massively "because". There's no reason. They just removed the upgradable RAM and second SATA port, added security screws, and now half the internal space is empty.

    One day the Mac Pro will have soldered RAM. I hope not. But unless someone takes Cook's place who understands Apple's customers, it might happen.
     
  23. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #23
    G4 cube and the Mac mini.

    The G4 cube failed because it was priced near the same price point of a Power Mac yet was much more constrained regarding upgrades, unlike the desktop.

    The Mac Mini, nothing in the Mini is considered "user replaceable" At least not originally. You needed a putty knife and to tear apart the whole computer if you wanted to replace the ram and hard drive - I know because I did it.

    Again, don't say that Steve never would reduce upgradability because the facts state otherwise.
     
  24. garirry thread starter macrumors 68000

    garirry

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    #24
    Okay, fine I was wrong. But my point still remains, maybe the Mac Mini was not designed as an upgradable machine, but it is still multiple components which could be fixed. Besides that, the 2010 Mac Mini used upgradability in their marketing so... why remove it? It doesn't make any sense other than to alienate customers by locking the hardware to the max. Unless someone invents a tool that can magically solder and desolder chips, but that won't happen anytime soon.
     
  25. Silencio macrumors 68020

    Silencio

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    #25
    Repetitive thread is repetitive. Staff should pin one of these threads at the top, because someone creates a new one every week.

    Apple has never been a company that has executed everything flawlessly, certainly not during Jobs' time, either.
     

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