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So is this a free upgrade, or $129? I guess since it's the "new" Marketplace, you could call it "Marketplace Extended," or just Me. Wait, that's been taken... ;)





Seriously, I think this strikes a good balance. Thanks for all the effort & planning!
 
Agree with the change, and many thanks to Q and the other mods.

However, I am itching to report Dr Q for making FOUR posts in succession. Hmm. How many microseconds will my account last after making that report? :)

Also agree with BBC 32k above, finding brit marketplace posts is a perinal problem. I've started a few threads on that topic.

What's wrong with having a tag for Euro / North Americas / South Americas / Africa / Middle East / AusNZ / Far East / Asia? That covers all the world 'local regions'
 
I don't think thats very fair. I use MR for nothing but the marketplace. I do not spam, nor start trouble. Now for you to 'require' someone to do something in return for a certain portion of the site is quite lame, imo. What if i become a 'contributor' would i gain access to this forum? I don't have time, nor feel like posting anywhere else on this board.
 
I don't think thats very fair. I use MR for nothing but the marketplace. I do not spam, nor start trouble. Now for you to 'require' someone to do something in return for a certain portion of the site is quite lame, imo. What if i become a 'contributor' would i gain access to this forum? I don't have time, nor feel like posting anywhere else on this board.

As the Marketplace is an "added-value" feature of a computing community forum, and not the primary reason for its existence, it's more than fair. You're gaining access to a worldwide market with minimal involvement or contribution otherwise and paying no fees for the privilege.

I'm really not trying to sound harsh, but if you want a free, no-commitment marketplace, that's what Craigslist was built for. MR is about the Mac community, and occasionally we have things to buy, sell, or trade amongst ourselves. Not the other way around.
 
I don't think thats very fair. I use MR for nothing but the marketplace. I do not spam, nor start trouble. Now for you to 'require' someone to do something in return for a certain portion of the site is quite lame, imo. What if i become a 'contributor' would i gain access to this forum? I don't have time, nor feel like posting anywhere else on this board.

don't quite see how you can use it with only 11 posts in any event, since 100 is required as of right now.

basically it boils down to this, MacRumors is more than a marketplace, and you should be a member of the community to use it as it is a part of the site. and i won't bother answering your second question since you didn't bother to read the thread.
 
While I understand the purpose behind this, I don't understand why we can't just decide for ourselves who we want to do business with. I mean, if someone is selling something I'd like to have, it should be my responsibility to check them out and decide for myself if their reputation is questionable, unknown, etc. It's my risk, not the forum's. Having said that, I understand that there are people out there who would have a bad experience and try to blame the forum admin for their own laziness in doing the proper research.

While I stand behind the forum admin, (I think all of you are great:rolleyes:, not sucking up, just how I feel), I'm disappointed. My daughter is in dire need of a new macbook, and now I will be forced to go to eBay (I may have ended up there anyway). I don't think I will be able to wait until October to buy. :(
 
Bravo for making the changes. Hopefully it'll make the marketplace more like what it used to be a couple years ago.

Hard to believe I've been a member for more than four years.
 
the only thing that I think is stupid about this is that you need these requirements to post or see in the forum at all. I mean, I can definitely see these requirements for people wanting to sell things, but how many people scam people here buying things.

I'd rather have more exposure from the newer people.
 
the only thing that I think is stupid about this is that you need these requirements to post or see in the forum at all. I mean, I can definitely see these requirements for people wanting to sell things, but how many people scam people here buying things.

I'd rather have more exposure from the newer people.

Scams work both ways. And by hiding the forum, it prevents those who have not the prerequisites from seeing a listing and then PMing the seller to try and organize a sale that way. If I were selling a popular item, or several items, I certainly would not want multitudes of people filling my inbox.
 
While I understand the purpose behind this, I don't understand why we can't just decide for ourselves who we want to do business with. I mean, if someone is selling something I'd like to have, it should be my responsibility to check them out and decide for myself if their reputation is questionable, unknown, etc. It's my risk, not the forum's. Having said that, I understand that there are people out there who would have a bad experience and try to blame the forum admin for their own laziness in doing the proper research.

While I stand behind the forum admin, (I think all of you are great:rolleyes:, not sucking up, just how I feel), I'm disappointed. My daughter is in dire need of a new macbook, and now I will be forced to go to eBay (I may have ended up there anyway). I don't think I will be able to wait until October to buy. :(

thats the problem is that if something does go wrong, the admins have to get involved. and this in part will help to lessen the reliance on the mods. which is a good thing. while it might not be the best situation, its probably the best compromise available.

the only thing that I think is stupid about this is that you need these requirements to post or see in the forum at all. I mean, I can definitely see these requirements for people wanting to sell things, but how many people scam people here buying things.

I'd rather have more exposure from the newer people.

again, scams can work both ways. this helps people from actively posting for just marketplace rights, especially those who haven't been here before who do not know of its existence and helps maintain a better standard imo.
 
It seems like people in my situation (been around for a while, but don't have much to say) are getting punished for the sins of others.
The same is true of many rules and laws that limit what well-meaning people can do because of what the ill-intentioned might do. But enough about DRM!

We know that the changes are an inconvenience for some members and that some members may take a long time, or forever, to reach 250 posts. There's nothing wrong with reading more than you post, and we wish more members posted only when have something useful to say or ask. But we want Marketplace participants to be better known than they have in the past. Please see "I just joined MacRumors and I'm a great person. Why shouldn't I be allowed to use the Marketplace?" in the FAQ since it applies to long-term members with low post counts as well.

I don't think thats very fair. I use MR for nothing but the marketplace. I do not spam, nor start trouble. Now for you to 'require' someone to do something in return for a certain portion of the site is quite lame, imo. What if i become a 'contributor' would i gain access to this forum? I don't have time, nor feel like posting anywhere else on this board.
Please see "Why shouldn't I be allowed to use the Marketplace?" and "What if I pay for MacRumors membership?" in the FAQ.

While I understand the purpose behind this, I don't understand why we can't just decide for ourselves who we want to do business with.
The problem is that too many members don't take the care you would take. When they sell to a brand new member without proper research, they may later find they can't complete the sale. As gonyr points out, you are being limited because of what others too-often do. That's why we're limiting access to the forum, even though it reduces the audience for thread starters (techlover828's concern).

We might have picked gentler words, saying that we are giving "fewer favors" rather than "punishment," but either way our goal is a practical solution that gives our ever-growing group of medium-term and long-term members a good Marketplace experience.
 
Thanks Dr. Q. And, for what it's worth, I don't see it as a punishment, just a necessary irritant. Nbd.:rolleyes:

And, if i were a mod, I would hate to moderate the marketplace!
 
Well, as a 5+ year member and multiple-time buyer and seller of both macs and smaller items in the marketplace, I must say that I don't care for these changes at all. Every single transaction I have done has gone smoothly, and the great majority of these transactions have been with users who would not have qualified under the new rules.

I understand that my experience is uncharacteristically positive, but I still think this is an overreaction to a few bad apples (pardon the pun). With the crapification of ebay and the unreliability of craigslist, this marketplace was the last place I felt comfortable buying, selling, and trading. I'm sorry to see that the potential number of trade partners available to me will soon drastically decrease.

I thank Arn and the mods for the great job they routinely do on this site, and I understand that they felt these changes were necessary. That said, I thought someone should offer the other point of view.
 
Yeah, there are a lot of "switchers" like me that got involved in the forum because they are new to Apple. I have several items that I want to buy cause I am new and own nothing.

This is unfortunate, but I'd rather know that the forum will remain both an informative resource and a pleasant place to be. I don't want the mods bogged down by trivial complaints that they could do nothing to prevent in the first place.
 
my support as always Doctor


i have always appreciated the steps taken by arn, et. al. (mods) to make the forum a great experience

Woof, Woof - Dawg
pawprint.gif
 
I think these changes will prove beneficial, and I think the mods/gods are owed a round of applause for being proactive rather than reactive. :)

I think the new "hidden" feature will prove very useful in helping to protect future buyers and sellers.

What if i become a 'contributor' would i gain access to this forum? I don't have time, nor feel like posting anywhere else on this board.
You would not gain access to any other part of the forum by contributing.

As for the first party of your post, I think you should check out the Rules and FAQ

the only thing that I think is stupid about this is that you need these requirements to post or see in the forum at all.

It basically means that people won't sign up only to sell their macs. They'll have to stick around for a period of 6 months and post for a while in non-Marketplace areas before they'll even know it exists, so they will be much more active and positive members and not spam just for the sake of posting in the Marketplace.

It's almost like a nice surprise when you reach the threshold; you get a benefit you didn't even know existed and are much more likely to feel more "involved" in the MR community before and after.
 
Understandable, but regrettable

I feel like I just signed a 2 year cell phone contract. :)

I've been a long time lurker but just finally registered. I wish that I would have registered long ago and I'd be years past the 6 months and working on the 250 post count.

Regardless, I respect the thinking behind this... and will continue to add to the community as I build my 250 count and 6 months up.

Thank you to the mods for being so thoughtful. I suppose if I were buying or selling a system here, I'd want better safeguards as well.
 
This is a great change in my opinion, but although I know that the mods will catch them just as quick as they do now, I have a strong feeling that the number of posts listing things to sell will increase in other forums. But I am confident in the mods that they will be able to stop these posts quickly.
 
Although I am not a frequent buyer or seller in the Marketplace, I have had 3 flawless transactions on here and I would like to keep it that way. Anything with the intent of protecting both buyers and sellers is OK in my book.

Nice Job on the planning and the flawless FAQs.
 
This is a great change in my opinion, but although I know that the mods will catch them just as quick as they do now, I have a strong feeling that the number of posts listing things to sell will increase in other forums. But I am confident in the mods that they will be able to stop these posts quickly.

Yup, the mods will probably have a lot on their plates very soon, but remember to use the
report.gif
and help them. :)
 
Nice changes, Q! Although everything that I've ever done in the marketplace has gone smoothly, I've often put sales on hold for a matter of days because a new member calls dibs and then later decides that they don't want what I'm selling anymore. Indecision often gets really irritating and time consuming, and I think that a new, private forum will eliminate a large portion of that. Bravo!
 
As I post this, I must admit I have no idea what my current standing is. I just haven't bothered to look at my current level in quite some time. I believe I am likely unaffected by the changes though (I'll obviously know once I post and see my title again).

But, either way, I don't see these new rules as being too terrible. I do remember coming in here the first time, and being a bit put off by the 100 post requirement. But, that really is only a major issue if the marketplace is where you find the primary value of the site to be.

It can be inconvenient though if you are a new Mac user and desire to find some good deals without resorting to e-bay. I know Craigslist in my area is a joke when it comes to Mac stuff. The old G3 stuff is selling for the price of the newer Intel stuff. So, not many deals in my area on Craigslist.

But, from a more objective view point, these rules do make sense.

For those that don't think the buyer is likely to scam you, I can provide a good example.

I've sold a number of Mac items here and in other forums. And, in Mac Rumors, I've had a number of underage individuals contact me to purchase stuff.

Now, you might wonder why I would care about the age of a potential buyer. Sure, their money is just as good as anyone else's. And, frequently, they have more at their disposal than someone supporting a family.

But, there is a little law in the United States that voids all contracts with a minor (anyone under the age of 18). So, if you sell to someone who is less than 18 years of age, they can (and often do) flake out. And, you end up with nothing.

Sure, you can demand payment up front. But, again, there is no legal contract with a minor. So, the seller assumes all liability in the transaction. So, even after the sale, the minor child or their parent can void the transaction and in many cases even keep the item in question (since you are the one who entered an illegal contract with a person who is not legally bound to any contract).

For example, even in a local sale, this could bite you. You sell a car to a 17-year old kid. He's able to put the car in his name, he has the money, and he drives off.

He wraps the car around a telephone pole down the street, and doesn't want the car anymore. You illegally entered into a contract with a buyer who could not enter a contract. You are in the wrong, and he gets his money back.

Sure it's wrong. But, that's the way it often goes down. No private party contract with a minor is enforceable. Sure, a minor is bound by laws. But, private contracts between an adult and a minor child are automatically void (particularly in sales).

The intention of the law, is to prevent unscrupulous sellers from taking advantage of naive children and getting away with their money.

But, unfortunately, since the law automatically sides with the minor child, the seller is in a very bad spot in a legitimate sale. Therefore, I automatically avoid sales with minor children if I know it is a minor. I will complete the transaction with their parents if I can verify that I am dealing with an adult.

Often, the age is not revealed, and many children sound more mature than many adults. So, it is often only by glancing through some threads with that user in them that I can determine whether it appears to be an adult. And, further, whether that adult seems likely to complete the transaction honestly.

In the case of a minor, it doesn't matter how they pay, they can get their money back.

In the case of a dishonest adult, they can file a claim and have paypal or their credit card refund the money from you. PayPal is pretty liberal in doing so.

And, in the case of money orders, they can be faked (and recently many are). I've been approached by many buyers lately that I've discovered by searching to have a history of scamming sellers out of things.

So, no matter how they pay, the money can be lost. PayPal will take it back quickly. A credit card will take it back even faster. A money order can be counterfeit (and often is). So, no matter what you do, a dishonest buyer can get your item and still cause you to be out the money.

Therefore, you really do want the ability to somehow judge a person's characteristics and history. If you find that your buyer has recently been complaining about another seller, then you may want to avoid them (I've seen a few here that have posted sad stories about the seller screwing them, and then had the details prove it to be the other way around and the seller was out everything).

6 months should give a seller a good sample of a person's behavior here. And, if the seller is wise (and uses the forum search feature), he will use that history to determine the viability of a buyer before entering into a sale with them.

I've had so many buyers flake out and cost me a sale that I won't even enter into a transaction if they seem the slightest bit questionable. If there is the slightest thing odd, I'll even take a lower offer from another buyer before considering them.

I think the new rules are probably about as fair as could be. The only thing I would prefer to have added would be a way to confirm a buyers age (as in over 18 or under 18). But, that would be hard to enforce without some kind of adult check system in the membership setup.

Edit: I see now that I am a 6502a. So, I guess I'm safe anyway (I don't post but every once in a while when something interesting catches my eye).
 
Well, as a 5+ year member and multiple-time buyer and seller of both macs and smaller items in the marketplace, I must say that I don't care for these changes at all.


There is more to this entire issue than problematic transactions between members although they are an important part of the equation. Behind the scenes, the marketplace has been at times a real timesink for the mods, disproportionate to the marketplaces' importance in MacRumors' scheme of things, and because of this, we've decided to make these changes.

I also would like to add here that the announced changes have been almost nine months in discussion and planning amongst all the moderators and admins, taking into account the views of members that have been posted in this forum, and represent a balanced solution between the hawks and doves 'upstairs'. ;)

So, let's move forward, work within the framework and schedule we now have and plan around it; those who have urgent transactions to make should make the most of the remaining 2-3 weeks to use the Marketplace in its current form.
 
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