Announcement: Two games forums for the price of one

[Doctor Q]

The Games forum has been archived as of today and two new forums created to replace it:

The Apple Games forum is for discussions about computer-based games, primarily games for Macintoshes and iPods. It also covers discussion and speculation about games for other Apple devices (iPhone, Apple TV, new devices) and games for Windows or other operating systems.

This Apple Games forum is now open and a number of recently active threads have been moved there, while less-recently active threads will stay in the archived Games forum. Additional threads will be moved as well.

The Console Games forum is for discussions about console-based games and hand-held game devices not made by Apple.

Posts do not count in the Console Games forum. The forum is starting out empty, so nobody has lost post count.

The Console Games forum will open on Tuesday May 1. The two-week moratorium on console game discussions between now and then has been instituted because of ongoing problems with console game threads. This will let these issues settle and give us a chance to straighten out any lingering problems before we move on.​

In making these changes, the other admins and moderators and I hope to give more emphasis to games for Apple products, avoid the distractions that resulted from mixing the two areas, and make both forums more enjoyable and useful places for game aficionados to visit.

As we make this transition we ask for your cooperation, support, and patience, as well as your usual comments and suggestions. If we experience glitches in the setup, let us know. We'll work to get things working smoothly.

Over the next few days, we will likely be making some minor tweaks and moving additional threads to Apple Games.

We can anticipate some issues, such as the proper place for threads that span both computer and console gaming (e.g., console emulators, or games like Final Fantasy XI that run on computers AND game consoles) and how to deal with the threads in which members exchange game codes, as listed in the Game Code Exchange Threads thread. We'll work on these, and other issues that come up.

If you have immediate concerns or questions, you can post here or send me a Private Message.

 

[Markleshark]

Perfect. Just as it should be. Nice one people. Shame we have to wait till May 1st, but I can understand that.

Just a minor point, are all the old threads going to be moved, or are we starting a fresh?

 

[zap2]

Perfect. Just as it should be. Nice one people. Shame we have to wait till May 1st, but I can understand that.

Just a minor point, are all the old threads going to be moved, or are we starting a fresh?

looks like we're starting fresh..as there are currently no post in there(the console game part)

 

[Markleshark]

Yeah, it looks like they've been moved to the archive.

 

[devilot]

Yeah, it looks like they've been moved to the archive.

As per his post:

Game-related threads prior to April 2007 can be found in the archived Games forum, which covered both computer games and console games.

Thanks for changing the way gaming is discussed, or at least, presumably changing. And hopefully this little forced vacation can help keep heads cooler and more level.

 

[PlaceofDis]

good news i say, hopefully the time off of the console threads will give everyone a bit of a chance to cool down and starting fresh certainly doesn't hurt.

 

[aidanpendragon]

Nice job...all of us who discussed console games with a cool head are now penalized by having ongoing, civil discussions (Wii Virtual Console anyone?) flung into an "archive" (note to mods: it's not just "game-related threads prior to April 2007" that you moved), and by being unable to post anything, to any relevant area - even the sandboxed new sub-forum - for two weeks.

I for one somehow managed to avoid massive flame wars. I also enjoyed looking at both console and Mac threads at once, in one place and posted to both. Now you've made that less convenient; stripped out the three-quarters of the forum that had any energy (it's not our fault that Mac gaming is near-death); and blocked it off, for good measure.

Just wanted to speak up for all the civil & polite (probably a majority) game forum users who you've penalized with this. I enjoyed the forums here because, being Mac-friendly, they tended to attract more rational and spelling-capable folks than dedicated games/consoles sites. But it's clear from this move that we're second-class citizens even here. Can't say as I'll want to come back in two weeks....

 

[Max Payne]

Thank you technical & administration team.

I am not interested much in console games since I don't own a console yet. I prefer knowing the new games for Macs and check if they are any good.

 

[iBlue]

Nice job...all of us who discussed console games with a cool head are now penalized by having ongoing, civil discussions (Wii Virtual Console anyone?) flung into an "archive" (note to mods: it's not just "game-related threads prior to April 2007" that you moved), and by being unable to post anything, to any relevant area - even the sandboxed new sub-forum - for two weeks.

I for one somehow managed to avoid massive flame wars. I also enjoyed looking at both console and Mac threads at once, in one place and posted to both. Now you've made that less convenient; stripped out the three-quarters of the forum that had any energy (it's not our fault that Mac gaming is near-death); and blocked it off, for good measure.

Just wanted to speak up for all the civil & polite (probably a majority) game forum users who you've penalized with this. I enjoyed the forums here because, being Mac-friendly, they tended to attract more rational and spelling-capable folks than dedicated games/consoles sites. But it's clear from this move that we're second-class citizens even here. Can't say as I'll want to come back in two weeks....

Well when all other measures taken fail to treat the problem, something more drastic usually has to be done. I think it's a positive change and makes a point that the bad apples won't be tolerated in the bunch. As one of the good apples I am sure you can aid in making sure that doesn't happen again, I imagine.

 

[Markleshark]

Well when all other measures taken fail to treat the problem, something more drastic usually has to be done. I think it's a positive change and makes a point that the bad apples won't be tolerated in the bunch. As one of the good apples I am sure you can aid in making sure that doesn't happen again, I imagine.

It's true. As they say though, you can't please all of the people all of the time, just some of the people some of the time.

 

[Doctor Q]

Markleshark: We aren't moving all threads to the new forums. Whenever a forum is archived, as many forums have been in the past, some threads just make the cutoff and some threads just miss the cutoff.

For computer games, our guideline has been to look for threads that were active in April (rather than March or earlier). We've been moving those threads to the Apple Games forum to avoid interrupting discussions in progress. We don't intend to move the older threads about computer games. If you or others identify suitable exceptions, where a particular thread ought to be moved because it's likely to become active again, please let us know.

For console games, we are interrupting discussions in progress for a forum-wide "time-out" because we have gotten so many complaints about many of those threads. When the new Console Games forum opens, a friendlier mood is the goal. With a fresh start we hope to stop any problems in the new Console Games forum quickly, to set a better tone for discussions there. The decision about moving some archived threads to the new forum has not yet been made.

aidanpendragon: Members who stick to civil discussions are the ones we are trying to help. The interruption to their discussions is temporary. We agree with you that only a minority of members have been making the Games forum unpleasant for the majority. Although the problems didn't bother you, many members were annoyed by the frequent flaming, and we want them to enjoy games threads too.

 

[mattscott306]

aidanpendragon: Members who stick to civil discussions are the ones we are trying to help. The interruption to their discussions is temporary. We agree with you that only a minority of members have been making the Games forum unpleasant for the majority. Although the problems didn't bother you, many members were annoyed by the frequent flaming, and we want them to enjoy games threads too.

Hence why I avoided the games forum until now. I'm enjoying the current discussions though.

 

[mkrishnan]

So, understanding that more pleasantness is the goal...and it's a nice goal. Is there anything non-obvious as a not-so-hardcore-but-decidedly-console-centric gamer that I should know about posting in the console forum when it opens in May? Is it the usual just not to make fun of yo' momma kind of stuff, or are there also etiquette things I should not do that would not be obvious to me?

I'm asking because I knew there was a lot of unhappiness in that forum but I read very few threads (predominantly about the DS and Wii) that seemed relatively unaffected to me. So I was never sure if I was part of something that was problematic unknowingly, or if the problem was just elsewhere.

P.S. Bravo for being pro-active about this. I think in the long term most of us care most about preserving the positive atmosphere at MR. And it is a testament to MR that people would rather come here and discuss, say, the DS with our gang, than go to a DS forum instead. Right?

 

[devilot]

P.S. Bravo for being pro-active about this. I think in the long term most of us care most about preserving the positive atmosphere at MR.

Thanks, that was my sentiment as well but I didn't quite know how to expess it well. You've done it much more eloquently than I could have.

And it is a testament to MR that people would rather come here and discuss, say, the DS with our gang, than go to a DS forum instead. Right?

Mm hmm. I dislike posts where people rebuke others and say, "Then go to x forum!" Whether its for cars, Windows, or games, I agree-- it shows that there is something about MR, something about the community here that draws people in and makes them more willing and more likely to discuss all sorts of interests. It's enriching and exciting.

 

[MacNut]

Sounds like a good plan, dropping the post counts should stop the flame wars, or at least slow it down.

 

[Doctor Q]

Is there anything non-obvious as a not-so-hardcore-but-decidedly-console-centric gamer that I should know about posting in the console forum when it opens in May? Is it the usual just not to make fun of yo' momma kind of stuff, or are there also etiquette things I should not do that would not be obvious to me?

Nothing special. Just the same ol' forum rules, and nothing you ever have to worry about.

In forums where people often have diametrically opposed opinions, it's important for posters to remember that they can dispute opinions but should not attack the person holding the opinion. We'll continue reminding people about it.

Strong opinions are known to be the norm in the Politics, Religion, Social Issues forum, but are also common to console game threads, and somtimes other forums like Digital Photography. The rules don't differ by forum, alghough enforcement is a little stronger in News threads and less strong in Politics, Religion, Social Issues. For the rest, we try to be as consistent as possible.

 

[ddrueckhammer]

This is retarded. Games are non-existant on the Mac platform. Thanks Steve.

I probably won't post on Macrumors for games or other topics anymore because of this despite having or using Macs most of my life. Opinions about console games don't go toward your thread count? WTF? Moderators are officially out of control.

If someone makes a post that is offensive, suspend or ban that persons posting priveleges but this is stupid. You are actively discouraging the discussion of game consoles despite the fact that many if not most Mac users are console gamers because Apple can't get its act together in the area of gaming.

 

[Eric5h5]

I probably won't post on Macrumors for games or other topics anymore because of this despite having or using Macs most of my life.

On the other hand, I'll probably post more because of the interesting gaming things not being drowned out so much by all the console noise. Not that I have a problem with consoles...but there are plenty of other places for that....

--Eric

 

[ddrueckhammer]

On the other hand, I'll probably post more because of the interesting gaming things not being drowned out so much by all the console noise. Not that I have a problem with consoles...but there are plenty of other places for that....

--Eric

I don't care that they are making a new forum so much as not counting your posts in the console forum. The reason that the Mac gaming threads are drowned out is because there are hardly any Mac games anymore. It is obvious that Mac owners who are interested in gaming are turning elsewhere.

Apple has never made their platform an attractive place for game development. Some have said this is because Steve wants Macs to be taken more seriously. By not providing the APIs like Microsoft's DirectX, and not encouraging the development of Physics Engines, Apple has made their bed and alienated or discouraged many people from switching over. Sure the audience is limited in Mac gaming, but the factors I listed above are just as important to the degradation of Mac gaming.

BTW, I just noticed the mods put a thread in site feedback so my comments can be moved there if that is the correct place. [Moderator note: "so moved"]

Edit: One last thing. It is interesting that I have never seen the people who are saying this is a good idea posting on the gaming forum for either console or Mac games. I agree 100% with aidanpendragon. Especially, since the Wii virtual console thread he referenced was one I started. I guess I'll have to start posting on IGN or Nintendo's boards with people I have nothing in common with and where things get really really un-civil.

 

[MacNut]

The Mods did the only thing they could, Just be happy there is still a forum for games here. If the people would have played nice to begin with then this move would not be necessary. By complaining about it just proves that this was a needed change.

 

[PlaceofDis]

Opinions about console games don't go toward your thread count? WTF? Moderators are officially out of control.

why should the post count matter? contributing to the discussion is the point of threads in the first place. mods are doing what they see fit to keep the hostilities down. simple as that.

 

[zelmo]

With no new exciting Mac news of late, I've found myself spending most of my time in the Games forum discussing the latest console news. While I don't care much about my post total any longer, I admit to being curious why Console Games sub-forum posts will not count in the post totals. Is it because, much like the Political/Religion forum, posters often get into heated 'discussions' and post counts can sky-rocket as a result, or are you hoping that this will restrain certain people from posting? Any of our wonderful Mods care to proffer a response?

While I was usually more bemused that irritated by the goings-on in the Games forum, I recognize that many members might have been put off, so I appreciate all that the Mods have done to date to clean it up, even when, like the Console Wars experiment, the attempts didn't end up working out as intended.

It's always easy for folks to criticize the results, but we make our own bed so to speak. I for one do not envy the Mods, nor do I think I could do any better. Now, if you could just find a method of controlling that wildman, mkrishnan.

 

[ddrueckhammer]

The Mods did the only thing they could, Just be happy there is still a forum for games here. If the people would have played nice to begin with then this move would not be necessary. By complaining about it just proves that this was a needed change.

Oh yeah, disenting opinions justify the change...

 

[mattscott306]

Oh yeah, disenting opinions justify the change...

Not dissenting opinions per se but the fact that Console games have very little to do with Macs themselves, which is the entire point of this forum.

 

[Doctor Q]

The Mods did the only thing they could...

We're doing what we think will help the most. It's not the only choice, but we hope it's the best choice.

I admit to being curious why Console Games sub-forum posts will not count in the post totals. Is it because, much like the Political/Religion forum, posters often get into heated 'discussions' and post counts can sky-rocket as a result, or are you hoping that this will restrain certain people from posting?

Yes and yes. It removes one incentive for people who argue endlessly and make the same points over and over. That could be true in any forum, of course, but in certain areas it's been more of a problem. As in the Marketplace forum and the Politics, Religion, Social Issues forum, the number of posts by a member isn't a problem, but we don't think members should earn avatars and higher user titles if they post only in those forums. The Wasteland forum too, for that matter!

Community Discussion has been "grandfathered in" as an area for non-Apple discussion among those who have made MacRumors a regular stop, so we're still counting posts there. Otherwise, "post count recognition" is based on forums that are (usually) about Apple-related themes and Mac areas of specialty.

Not dissenting opinions per se but the fact that Console games have very little to do with Macs themselves, which is the entire point of this forum.

There's a bit of overlap between games for Apple/Mac products and games unrelated to Apple. Some games run on both Macs and consoles. The groups of people who play them overlap. The technology overlaps too since, after all, game consoles are computers. And some games have moved online, where the game is more important than the device you use to access it. So the division between the two forums won't be crystal clear in every case. But common sense can keep that from being a problem.