Another Day, Another Panther Build (7B59)

[mvc]

Re: Re: Re: Panther question

Originally posted by inkswamp
If you're currently naming a folder, it stands to reason that any keyboard action would apply to that folder…

There are a numer of bugs like this which Panther HAS fixed. In list view in Jaguar, for instance, try creating a new child folder while higlighting an existing "open" folder, it appears above the parent folder instead of inside it. And whenever you create a folder in list view, it isn't highlighted for renaming, unlike previous behaviours in OS9 and the behaviour in other views in Jaguar. I reported both these bugs and apparently the last at least is corrected in Panther (don't know about the first).

My point is, oddball/inconsistent finder behaviour is still occurring, but Apple is fixing it slowly.

Of course, the real thing they should fix is that stupid change they made to command-shift-n rather than command-n for a new folder - how often do you want a new window rather than a new folder?

This annoys me daily. At least they could allow us to configure our own key commands like every other application under the sun.

 

[Edot]

Image Capture

I have used 7b53 and noticed that Image Capture seems to now support scanners and OCR. However, these features either are not implemented yet or my scanner is not supported or I have not installed the correct drivers. It is a popular Canon Scanner and when I launch Image capture it does recognize it as being turned on. There are prefs for scanning and Mysterious Scanning and OCR Services. What is the deal with this? Are these features implemented in 7b59 or not? This would be excellent because Jag lacks any scanning support, and you must purchase a program or use classic software to scan. I should probably be frustrated with the scanner manufacturer and not Apple. What is the deal with this? Anyone??

 

[FredAkbar]

In Jaguar, when there's something in the trash, and you use the Terminal to delete it, the trash Dock icon doesn't automatically update to show the now-empty trash.

Is this fixed in Panther?

 

[inkswamp]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Panther question

Originally posted by mvc
And whenever you create a folder in list view, it isn't highlighted for renaming, unlike previous behaviours in OS9 and the behaviour in other views in Jaguar.

I'm pleased to hear that this particular issue has been addressed in Panther. Probably a lot of these subtle differences in behavior come from the fact that column-view was a NeXT-ism, if I understand correctly, and Apple's developers have probably labored mightily to hammer it into the expected Mac-like behavior. That certainly understandable, but any quirks like the one I cited previously that potentially destroys a user's work should be fixed without question.

Here's a weird one that I hope gets fixed in Panther. It's not destructive but it's damn annoying.

Open a window in list view. Shrink the window down so that the "name" header (the blue area of the column headers) extends past the right edge of the window. Now, click on one item's title as if you mean to rename it. As soon as the title becomes active for editing, the entire window contents suddenly shifts over to the left. Grrrrr... This doesn't happen if the name header doesn't extend past the window's right edge. I like to keep my list view windows thin and this bug drives me nuts.

 

[mvc]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Panther question

Originally posted by inkswamp
Here's a weird one that I hope gets fixed in Panther. It's not destructive but it's damn annoying…

Here's another - its so general most people wouldn't see it as a bug, but its an A-Grade Finder usability blooper.

Try saving a NEW document from within an application into a folder which is open on your desktop as a window in list view, then switch to that open window, and double-click something else to open that…
…Watch the finder only THEN update the window, belatedly rearrange the window contents BEFORE your doubleclick is registered and voila, you find yourself opening the WRONG item - especially annoying if the new item is a 300mb photoshop file when you clicked a word doc? Last modified view shows it up the best.

What is jaguar doing with all my unused processor cycles - why can't it refresh a visible window before it is made the focus

 

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by FredAkbar
In Jaguar, when there's something in the trash, and you use the Terminal to delete it, the trash Dock icon doesn't automatically update to show the now-empty trash.

Is this fixed in Panther?

Just being curious. Why delete from the terminal? If it is because you can't delete the content otherwise, I guess you are already having a trash problem anyway. You could then just drag a random file into the trash and then out of it to refresh it? But you are right, it is a bug.

 

[inkswamp]

Re: Panther question

Originally posted by mvc
Watch the finder only THEN update the window, belatedly rearrange the window contents BEFORE your doubleclick is registered and voila, you find yourself opening the WRONG item

Yes! I've been dealing with exactly that issue over the last few days. I help publish an online Pink Floyd fan webzine (http://sparebricks.fika.org, if anyone's interested) with some fellow Floyd freaks. Our publication process involves me generating the pages, posting an early version for review, then all the contributors and the editor sending me fixes and changes just before it publishes. I work with the list of site files in list view sorted by more recently modified (so I know which ones to upload once I'm done with a round of edits) and found that I frequently had to click on files that I had updated just to force them to sort properly. Very, very annoying.

Obviously, I don't hate Jaguar (love it, in fact... all of these comlaints pale in comparison to my complaints about OS 9) but I certainly look forward to some of these rougher edges being smoothed out on Panther. I hope.

 

[mvc]

Re: Re: Panther question

Originally posted by inkswamp

Obviously, I don't hate Jaguar (love it, in fact... all of these comlaints pale in comparison to my complaints about OS 9) but I certainly look forward to some of these rougher edges being smoothed out on Panther. I hope.

Yeah, certainly prefer X to 9 overall. Well, guess you and I are the only people who do any actual WORK on our Macs and notice these things since we are the only ones complaining. Rest must just be surfing for porn all the time

just kidding y'all

 

[Jeff Harrell]

Re: Re: Re: Panther question

Originally posted by inkswamp
If you're currently naming a folder, it stands to reason that any keyboard action would apply to that folder.

It might stand to reason to you, but it does not stand to reason to me. To me, the folder affected by operations would be the selected one, which you can clearly see right there in front of you in column view.

It has always worked that way before on the Mac. It works that way in icon and list view in both OS 9 and X. Why should column view behave differently?

Because column view is different. If you don't like the way it works, you are of course free to avoid it.

Apple themselves beg to differ with you as they issued a technote not a week after I sent this to them indicating that this behavior was inadvertent and would be addressed at a later time. Your opinion is that it is correct behavior.

Yes, my opinion is that it's the correct behavior. Keyboard operations and whatnot refer to the selected folder. Not to some other folder. In the scenario you described, the parent folder is the selected folder. You can tell this by looking at it. So the behavior is correct.

Now, if Apple were to change the operation of column view so that command-shift-N both creates and selects a new folder, and directs keyboard operations to the newly created folder, that would be the correct behavior. Changing the Finder so that it directs keyboard operations to a folder other than the selected folder, however, would not be correct behavior.

Anyway, thanks for not answering the question.

I answered the question. The answer is "Yes," that's how it works in Panther.

 

[inkswamp]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Panther question

Originally posted by Jeff Harrell
It might stand to reason to you, but it does not stand to reason to me. To me, the folder affected by operations would be the selected one, which you can clearly see right there in front of you in column view.

Again, Apple disagrees with your reasoning as per their technote indicating that it leaves selected the "wrong" folder.

I feel that it's inconsistent Finder behavior because it doesn't work that way in either icon or list view. If I create a new folder in icon or list view and try to trash it mid-rename, the parent folder doesn't go to the trash too. In those views, the new folder being named is the selected folder. Why should column view exhibit markedly different behavior, especially behavior that is potentially confusing and destructive to a user's data?

Anyway, we're obviously not going to agree so I can only restate that.

 

[WM.]

Jeff and inkswamp:

Seems to me like your opinions aren't quite as mutually exclusive as you think. Jeff is saying, the parent folder is selected, so it should be affected by any user input (e.g. cmd-delete), but it would be OK if the child folder were selected and thus affected. inkswamp is saying simply that the parent shouldn't be affected. So it seems to me that you two do or could agree that the newly-created child folder should be selected, not the parent.

Right?

I suppose Apple's technote and subsequent inaction (although maybe they just haven't gotten around to fixing it yet) is kind of a curveball here, because you can both claim that Apple agrees with you 100%...but I'm a uniter, not a divider.

WM

 

[Jagga]

Finder kwerks?!

Reply: Question on Inkswamp's Column view new folder Panther question, and rebuttal towards Jeff. Ok I'm a poweruser mostly on how Windows works, and with a few months on Mac OS X 10.1.4-10.1.5. Inkswamp's stated

"In column view, hit Apple+shift+N to create a new folder. Name the folder "parent." Now, select "parent" (still in column view) and hit Apple+shift+N to create a subfolder in "parent." Name this new folder "child." Before finishing the naming of "child", hit Apple+delete as if you mean to move "child" to the trash."

.Now any user whom created the 'new' folder; then called it "child" without hitting return; normally should SEE "child" as being selected, as its name is CURRENTLY being named, right?! Hence if I backspace during the naming procedure, or even hit caps-lock, its STILL selected by the keyboard input, no??!! How else would that folder be created if its not selected by the kernel??? Very strange to me? Jeff I tried to re-read and read again your answer to inkswamps post to try to understand your personal position on this..........yes Panther is doing this, but after reading my post do you FEEL it should happen this way inside Column view and not list/icon view?? Personally Im still new to Mac so when I'm going through the hard drive---especially when following someone else's post on where my user folder is on the Mac Home>User>Office X (not exactly, but you get my drift, hehe.)--I'd like to know where I am relative to where I've been at all times, hence my preference for Column view.

How do you take care of this situation with my sort or preference??