Another Designer Leaves Apple

[JayKay514]

This all sounds sensible (and boring). But once upon a time Apple DID innovate and "product design" was not simply incremental. Take the iPod as an example. There were 4/5 very different implementations -- the Shuffle, Mini/Nano, Touch and Classic -- with different features and very different price points. This is all lost when it come to the phone, every model is essentially "the same", with little tweaks here and there. There is no imagination, no variation, just a dull sameness ... all in the name of preserving Apple's 40% margins.

eh - I would say the iPod is a perfect example of incremental design. There were other MP3 / digital audio players on the market before the iPod, and some were market successes, but they were clunky and had smaller storage capacity.

Apple did what it does best - see what the market was doing, and offer a product that was easier to use, with an attractive design (inspired in no small way by the work of Dieter Rams at Braun), AND that worked hand-in-hand with its iTunes music ripping/burning/management software which had been introduced earlier the same year.

Its genius was not in advertising its specs, but the benefit: "1,000 songs in your pocket." A way to bring your iTunes library with you, with automatic syncing.

The evolution of the iPod between 2001 and 2022 was very much incremental - refining the design to become thinner, smaller, more power-efficient, lighter as technology allowed, and as the cost of parts decreased, to introduce color screens, video playback, even a camera (in one iteration of the Nano).

Yes, the product line created interesting one-off branches, such as the square screen-only Nano, and the Shuffle which went from the 'stick of gum' form factor to its final clip-on version, but there's more similarity than difference when you look at the evolution between generations within a single version.

It absolutely was not like the design free-for-all of the early GMS cellphone market (hello, Nokia), nor the fashion-driven Japanese keitai phone market.

Arguably, the iPod still exists... it's just on your wrist now.

 

[Art Mark]

Only if you are called Nivida.

True that!

 

[bgillander]

This was also me, except I just bought the M2 MBA and upgraded it just enough to last me 10 years (barring breakdowns). 24GB RAM, 1 TB drive, and I'm good to go.

Also, super efficient video encoders and cheap (and tiny) external SSD storage helped take me down to just the MBA (and an iPad Pro I just love to use) from a 27" iMac and TONS of spinning rust and peripherals.

I think that us older Apple users have that bit of nostalgia still in there that causes a bit of tunnel vision, perhaps.

I did the math at the time of the M1 Air intro and I think in Canada that specific upgrade was around 86% of the price of the base unit. At that point, I figured I would just see if I could get by with the base 8GB and then hypothetically have 86% of the payment left over for my next Air when I needed to upgrade.

That Air has actually been good enough to stay my daily driver for almost 5 years now, which is weird considering I got a consulting gig the next year that allowed me to convince myself I could justify getting a MacBook Pro 14” M1Pro which I still only pull out for specific tasks, as that Air just keeps on ticking.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

This is bad, Apple is going to end up with this guy

 

[Happy_John]

This is bad, Apple is going to end up with this guy

Silicon Valley was a scripted and edited TV comedy. A very good, sharp, satirical TV comedy, but still a TV comedy. It is not reality.

Don’t confuse scripted and edited TV with reality.

 

[bgillander]

Couldn't disagree more - losing a Thunderbolt 4/5 port for a single use HDMI port that most users will never touch is a step backwards. I now can't charge from the right side of my MacBook Pro and use a USB port on that side at the same time. Ironically for all the moaning about dongles when we had 4 USB-C ports for my life setup I now NEED a dongle and USB adapter because there's not enough USB ports!

I like design first, I like something that is brutally different. If I just wanted a device that did a bit of everything badly there's any other tech company in the world for that.

Hey, I just realized exactly how specific to your life setup this complaint actually is, as you only want to charge from the right side.

Along with the replacement of the fourth USB-C port with the HDMI and SD card reader, Apple also added back the MagSafe port, which allows one to charge the MacBook Pro without tying up one of the USB-C ports. This gives most users the same three available USB-C ports that they would also have had while charging the older model that could only be charged through one of the four USB-C ports… UNLESS the user feels the need to charge through the one right side USB-C port instead.

Now I absolutely think your specific use case is a far greater outlier than those users that have a need for an HDMI port or SD card reader.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

Silicon Valley was a scripted and edited TV comedy. A very good, sharp, satirical TV comedy, but still a TV comedy. It is not reality.

Don’t confuse scripted and edited TV with reality.

Thanks. I thought it was real.

 

[Lioness~]

Silicon Valley was a scripted and edited TV comedy. A very good, sharp, satirical TV comedy, but still a TV comedy. It is not reality.

Don’t confuse scripted and edited TV with reality.

Reality is tougher then comedies.
Seing someone playing Cook in a comedy, might be a tough task, but it woul'd be hard to fail 😂

 

[DocMultimedia]

Silicon Valley was a scripted and edited TV comedy. A very good, sharp, satirical TV comedy, but still a TV comedy. It is not reality.

Don’t confuse scripted and edited TV with reality.

But for those that did startups that succeeded, the show was brutally close to reality. And truly hilarious.

I did that startup thing and survived. 😀

 

[zenmacx]

Yeah, I'm glad it seems to work ok for many folks, but I definitely trust the likes of Dave2D on this. It was his one main drawback and one I know I would really hate, as I do use the speaker on my iPhone a lot.

Speaking from experience with my iPhone Air, audio quality from its single speaker is dreadful.

Even though I have the option of using my AirPods or Sony XM4 Wireless Headphones, there are those times it isn’t convenient or I don’t want to use either.

Upon purchasing this phone I deliberately lowered my expectations to give Apple the benefit of the doubt and because I was prepared for some trade offs. However the difference between acceptable audio quality and the awful performance of the Airs speaker is a horrible reflection on Apple.

Once upon time Apple maintained far higher standards.

 

[ChrisMac47]

eh - I would say the iPod is a perfect example of incremental design. There were other MP3 / digital audio players on the market before the iPod, and some were market successes, but they were clunky and had smaller storage capacity.

Apple did what it does best - see what the market was doing, and offer a product that was easier to use, with an attractive design (inspired in no small way by the work of Dieter Rams at Braun), AND that worked hand-in-hand with its iTunes music ripping/burning/management software which had been introduced earlier the same year.

Its genius was not in advertising its specs, but the benefit: "1,000 songs in your pocket." A way to bring your iTunes library with you, with automatic syncing.

The evolution of the iPod between 2001 and 2022 was very much incremental - refining the design to become thinner, smaller, more power-efficient, lighter as technology allowed, and as the cost of parts decreased, to introduce color screens, video playback, even a camera (in one iteration of the Nano).

Yes, the product line created interesting one-off branches, such as the square screen-only Nano, and the Shuffle which went from the 'stick of gum' form factor to its final clip-on version, but there's more similarity than difference when you look at the evolution between generations within a single version.

It absolutely was not like the design free-for-all of the early GMS cellphone market (hello, Nokia), nor the fashion-driven Japanese keitai phone market.

Arguably, the iPod still exists... it's just on your wrist now.

That's an interesting take. I understand your argument, but I disagree.

The iPods had VERY DIFFERENT form factors, user interfaces and prices, and although all of them offered the ability to play music, they also had different additional features (e.g. as you point out, the camera, or disc storage on the Classic).

In comparison, the phones are all very very similar, with only relatively small differences. For example, there is no "entry level" phone; I do not count the 16e as entry level at $599 in the US and about €729 in Europe, when I can get a very respectable entry level Android phone for around €250.

Apple's iOS has >50% of the market in the US, but in the rest of the world excluding the US (where most of Apple's sales are), the market penetration is only around 25%, with Android taking almost all of the remaining 75%. Apple could increase its market share (and of course that increases its Services sector) by offering, for example, a lower specification entry level phone at a proper entry level price, say $250. But to do that it has to get away from the present "sameness" of its current offerings. For $250 you would get the basic iOS but limited functionality.

 

[bluespark]

The battery is not outstanding

I'm only needing to charge mine to 80% to make it very comfortably through the day. I've never been able to do that with another iPhone before. I realize the other new iPhones can go even longer, but given the size of this battery, I'd say that the fact it's beating my prior iPhones (even when they were new) is significant.

 

[Dirk Pieters]

Agree with everything said, but..MacBook Pro is better due to no more Intel and the M-Series Apple Silicone. I personally liked my 15" MacBook Pro (thin) 2018 and "Yes" with the butterfly keyboard. If that had a M1 in it....

Again...just my opinion so don't throw tomatoes at me.

Still using my 2018 15" MBP as my daily machine. Bought it in 2019 fully-spec'd and it still rocks. Every now and then the butterfly keyboard gives me a double space instead of a single one. The battery is gone though, so it's on a charger all the time. 😀

 

[bgillander]

That's an interesting take. I understand your argument, but I disagree.

The iPods had VERY DIFFERENT form factors, user interfaces and prices, and although all of them offered the ability to play music, they also had different additional features (e.g. as you point out, the camera, or disc storage on the Classic).

In comparison, the phones are all very very similar, with only relatively small differences. For example, there is no "entry level" phone; I do not count the 16e as entry level at $599 in the US and about €729 in Europe, when I can get a very respectable entry level Android phone for around €250.

Apple's iOS has >50% of the market in the US, but in the rest of the world excluding the US (where most of Apple's sales are), the market penetration is only around 25%, with Android taking almost all of the remaining 75%. Apple could increase its market share (and of course that increases its Services sector) by offering, for example, a lower specification entry level phone at a proper entry level price, say $250. But to do that it has to get away from the present "sameness" of its current offerings. For $250 you would get the basic iOS but limited functionality.

But that limited functionality would be an issue, as the main thing I value with buying iPhones is that I can expect that the base functionality will at least be the same.

 

[JayKay514]

The iPods had VERY DIFFERENT form factors, user interfaces and prices, and although all of them offered the ability to play music, they also had different additional features (e.g. as you point out, the camera, or disc storage on the Classic).

To me it’s evident that Apple identified common use cases from its initial product offering, and logically refined and split the product line to address key niches.

The bulkier mechanical HD versions had more storage, but weren’t really suitable for workouts or jogging, so the Nano and Shuffle offered a tradeoff. People who wanted video playback could do so on some devices and not others. The final iPod, the Touch, was basically an iPhone SE without a cell modem.

To be sure Apple made the iPod a stylish accessory and a cultural icon; whenever they redesigned it they weren’t ignorant of fashion and trends.

But that said, they didn’t do it out of a need to express themselves artistically or to be different for the sake of difference. It was to sell stuff by appealing to more people / use cases, removing objections, lowering the cost per unit and increasing profit, and as a halo product, get people interested in the Mac. LOTS of people switched after getting iPhones.

In comparison, the phones are all very very similar, with only relatively small differences.

True enough. That said I don’t really know what’s left to innovate on in terms of the core hardware and feature sets, and most makers have converged on similar designs. Could Apple take risks here? Maybe.

For example, there is no "entry level" phone; I do not count the 16e as entry level at $599 in the US and about €729 in Europe, when I can get a very respectable entry level Android phone for around €250.

This is an excellent point. Granted you can often get the previous year’s models at steep discounts or even for free on a monthly cellphone plan, at least in North America.

But this is where Apple could revive the cheap-n-cheerful spirit of the colorful, “unapologetically plastic” iPhone 5C or borrow some concepts from the Moto G.

Imagine a durable, recycled plastic iPhone with a decent AMOLED display, maybe dual cameras, a very good battery, and a more basic CPU that will run iOS 26 through 33 but with fewer cores overall. I think they could hit $199 or less pretty easily.

 

[Dirk Pieters]

In comparison, the phones are all very very similar, with only relatively small differences. For example, there is no "entry level" phone; I do not count the 16e as entry level at $599 in the US and about €729 in Europe, when I can get a very respectable entry level Android phone for around €250.

The 16e is the entry level iPhone: it is the cheapest iPhone you can get, therefor it is the entry into the world of iPhone. Price has nothing to do with it.

Also: a respectable Android phone for €250 ... you are kidding, right? iPhones last waaaaaay longer quality wise and OS update wise than a €250 Android phone. I upgraded from an iPhone 6 to a 14 Pro and only needed to do so because the 6 died on me. You'll be lucky if that €250 Android phones receives 2 OS updates, if that.

A €250 Android phone is - and will always be - a piece of junk. Cheap junk, driven by an operating system built with the sole purpose of capturing what you do and where you are in order to serve you better ads. It is a trojan horse built by an advertising company to sit in your pocket.

Yuk!

 

[ChrisMac47]

The 16e is the entry level iPhone: it is the cheapest iPhone you can get, therefor it is the entry into the world of iPhone. Price has nothing to do with it.

Also: a respectable Android phone for €250 ... you are kidding, right? iPhones last waaaaaay longer quality wise and OS update wise than a €250 Android phone. I upgraded from an iPhone 6 to a 14 Pro and only needed to do so because the 6 died on me. You'll be lucky if that €250 Android phones receives 2 OS updates, if that.

A €250 Android phone is - and will always be - a piece of junk. Cheap junk, driven by an operating system built with the sole purpose of capturing what you do and where you are in order to serve you better ads. It is a trojan horse built by an advertising company to sit in your pocket.

Yuk!

I not like Android OS either, but please do not confuse Android OS with the phones that run Android OS. I can assure you that you can buy lots of well-built, durable phones in Europe for less than €250 that run some flavour of Android. The problem is not the build-quality or feature-set of the hardware, it's Android OS and its inherent security issues!

By not offering a low price entry phone, Apple are losing the opportunity to expand their user base outside the US, and hence grow their Services. €700+ is too much to pay for an "entry-level" phone. And even in the wealthier US, I think many people were disappointed that Apple priced the 16e at $599, a large mark-up on the SE series.

 

[Abazigal]

Hey, I just realized exactly how specific to your life setup this complaint actually is, as you only want to charge from the right side.

Along with the replacement of the fourth USB-C port with the HDMI and SD card reader, Apple also added back the MagSafe port, which allows one to charge the MacBook Pro without tying up one of the USB-C ports. This gives most users the same three available USB-C ports that they would also have had while charging the older model that could only be charged through one of the four USB-C ports… UNLESS the user feels the need to charge through the one right side USB-C port instead.

Now I absolutely think your specific use case is a far greater outlier than those users that have a need for an HDMI port or SD card reader.

It’s also interesting that one is the reasons given for supporting the transition of the iPhone from lightning to usb c was to allow users to unify their charging setup. Yet here, we see people cheering over the ability to…charge their laptop using a proprietary cable which isn’t compatible with anything else, and which entails them carrying an additional cable around.

No using their MagSafe cable to charge any other device on their desk (eg: Nintendo switch, iPad, Apple TV remote). You can’t connect it to a usb dock.

The only consistency I see here on MacRumours is their inconsistency and the tendency to take the opposite position of whatever Apple is doing at any one time. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[dannys1]

Since it looks like you weren't using a hub/dock before, note that there is no net loss of USB-C/TB ports with the change. One port would be occupied for power, but now there is a MagSafe power port so power isn't using an USB-C port

That's only IF you use MagSafe power. Ironically you then need to carry an extra cable around because it's not already in the place you visit - you know like apparently everyone had to do when they were constantly plugging a MacBook Pro into HDMI devices.

 

[dannys1]

Working in corporate environments, with hotel desking setups, it's a given that you're going to find slightly older Dell monitors, which either have HDMI or full-size DisplayPort or both, and that's it. Only a handful of desks have TB docking stations hooked up.

That "single use" HDMI port is the only way for many corporate Mac users to connect to office monitors, I'd wager, without bringing their own dongles / docking stations.

If and when the lease is up on this set of equipment, I'd hope they'd spec monitors with TB / USB-C with power delivery, but nothing moves quickly in organization-land.

This is true of course - but a HDMI or DP dongle is so small and easy to pop into a little baggy and bring with you. Then you get to chose which side of the laptop is best to plug in to. You can make it DisplayPort if you need, you can have different versions of HDMI - you can of course even bring your own HDMI to USB-C cable.

 

[bgillander]

It’s also interesting that one is the reasons given for supporting the transition of the iPhone from lightning to usb c was to allow users to unify their charging setup. Yet here, we see people cheering over the ability to…charge their laptop using a proprietary cable which isn’t compatible with anything else, and which entails them carrying an additional cable around.

No using their MagSafe cable to charge any other device on their desk (eg: Nintendo switch, iPad, Apple TV remote). You can’t connect it to a usb dock.

The only consistency I see here on MacRumours is their inconsistency and the tendency to take the opposite position of whatever Apple is doing at any one time. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If Apple removed the ability to charge by USB-C, I would fully agree with you, but complaining about adding back an additional charge method that actually works better (sorry, but I do prefer MagSafe) seems like you actually prefer limiting options, which seems inconsistent with your previous posts with which I often agree.

I still occasionally use USB-C to charge when more convenient, and have yet to find only 2 remaining USB-C ports in those moments a limiting factor, while the additional HDMI and SD have been useful to me, even if not every day.

Edit: And are you really unable to use the MagSafe cable to a USB-C dock? I’ve never tried, but since it is a USB-C end on it I expected that would work and it certainly can be connected. I also never argued for the elimination of Lightning, so consistency is personally not an issue in this case. I have actually complained that USB-C is barely a standard, as much as I like the better features, which are unfortunately optional.

Edit2: As to that last point, the USB-C cable I use to charge the MacBook is a special chipped version for high power delivery, so that “interchangeable” argument is at least a bit of a fallacy. And have you managed to get your Nintendo charging over a basic cable?

 

[Abazigal]

Edit2: As to that last point, the USB-C cable I use to charge the MacBook is a special chipped version for high power delivery, so that “interchangeable” argument is at least a bit of a fallacy. And have you managed to get your Nintendo charging over a basic cable?

My Nintendo Switch (both the first and second model) charge just fine over my Anker usb-c cable. It's a normal 1+m 60w cable, nothing special about it. But I also use it to charge my MBA, which doesn't require all that much power.

You also just reminded me that I haven't opened the 140w anker charger that I purchased a month ago. Not sure exactly what I would do with it though...

Edit: And are you really unable to use the MagSafe cable to a USB-C dock? I’ve never tried, but since it is a USB-C end on it I expected that would work and it certainly can be connected.

It's common to attach a usb-c dock to a laptop, and have the connect connect to your external monitor, usb storage, dongle for wireless accessories such as keyboard and mouse, plus power (via usb-c to charger). What I meant to say is that I don't know of any such usb-c dock which would accept power via MagSafe, and in such a setup, charging your laptop via usb-c would be redundant because it's already receiving power via your doc anyways.

If Apple removed the ability to charge by USB-C, I would fully agree with you, but complaining about adding back an additional charge method that actually works better (sorry, but I do prefer MagSafe) seems like you actually prefer limiting options, which seems inconsistent with your previous posts with which I often agree.

I am also a believer of forcing change, in short term pain for long term gain, and in design purity.

I am of the opinion that usb-c is the ideal port to go all-in on (for a laptop form factor at least). Power, display, data, they all work over usb-c (though some will admittedly require people to purchase their accessories all over again). The beauty here is that you don't have to worry about which side to plug in your accessories into, or what the correct side up is even. In the short run, some users may attempt to manage the transition by using adaptors, but in the long run, I do believe that everyone is better off if they simply transitioned over to usb-c accessories.

I do also like the sleek and symmetrical appearance of having 2 usb-c ports on each side of a laptop, troubled as the 2016 MBP was. But it looks like function ultimately won out over form here.

And as the VGA->HDMI shift shows, you simply won't get widespread adoption unless you force change (by making it as inconvenient as possible for people to use any other standard). At least that's what Apple did with flash, with the headphone jack, with the iPhone touchscreen, and to an extent, with the 12" Macbook and its sole port.

This is what I have done, thought part of the reason is to maintain compatibility with my iPad Pro without the need for an adaptor. So I have a Samsung T7 drive (with both usb-A and C cables), a 1tb flash drive with both USB-A and C heads, my usb-c charger works with my work laptop (meaning I can leave its bulky barrel charger at my desk), the dock at my desk consolidates everything into 1 usb-c cable so I only need to plug one cable into my laptop, even my usb-c to lightning cable is so I can charge my iPhone from my iPad or my laptop if need be. I still carry an adaptor around (dongebags for the win), and am the default person my colleagues come running to when they have tech issues to troubleshoot.

I will say that I am neither for more options or against fewer options (or vice versa). It's like a giant game of chess. Every move, every change, every decision not to change or not to adopt a particular standard, each is a step toward a future I would like to see for Apple. This is why for me, more isn't always better, and less isn't always worse. I have survived way worse in the past when apple devices were less connected and less compatible with other standards.