Another Look at Apple's Core 2 Duo Choice for New 13-Inch MacBook Pro

[pika2000]

You know what? This specs vs MAcs argument can be compared to cars. You can pimp out a Ford to high heaven and it will STILL never be a Porsche. Driving experience- a combination of everything from build quality, ergonomics, engineering, to the human factor of 'it just works'. APPLE, my friends, is THE Porsche of computers. Never the fastest or cheapest, or most comfortable, but brother, aint nobody leave one dissapointed!

1. I am a Mac user.
2. I personally would rather use OS X than Windows.
You're missing the point my friend. The article was making excuses for Apple that they cannot put in Core ix on the 13" MBP due to space, which doesn't make sense considering Sony can pack a Core i7 AND an nVidia discrete GPU on the Z. I'm a Mac fan, but I'm not a fanboy, and I give credit where it's due. Based on hardware, Sony did a good job with the Z.

 

[pika2000]

When is apple gonna remove the freakin optical drive!

We could have dedicated graphics, i5 and a larger battery to compensate...

I haven't used the optical drive once so far this year apple! It's taking up such a huge percentage of space in the already slim casing. At least make it an option.

I know. Considering a company that made the Macbook Air, I was surprised that Apple is still sticking with optical drives on the other Macbook lineup. I don't think it would hurt Apple to spin off another lineup of the 13" MBP that doesn't have the optical drive in exchange for SSD + RAID, more battery, and an extra USB port that will support the MBA's external optical drive. Of course that would kill the MBA, but I don't think the MBA is selling that many anyway (and isn't it due for a refresh too?).

 

[pika2000]

I agree, remove it. Include an optional 50$ superdrive external. Also bundle the operating system and everything onto a 16 gig or whatever jump drive. Then you can reinstall if you have to. Easy.

Then you have a huge spot to do what needs to be done.

Or simply put a high-powered USB port that supports the MBA's external optical drive.
And yeah, +1 for the OS on a USB drive.

 

[DontMacTheGyver]

It's not old, it's brand new
You arent paying for the processor, you'r paying for the product. The computer which works the way a Mac works.
The car engine hasnt changed in almost 100 years, yet we keep paying new money for old technology.

The car engine hasn't changed in almost 100 years? Are you kiddin'? Your comparison is totally nonsense!

You know what? This specs vs MAcs argument can be compared to cars. You can pimp out a Ford to high heaven and it will STILL never be a Porsche. Driving experience- a combination of everything from build quality, ergonomics, engineering, to the human factor of 'it just works'. APPLE, my friends, is THE Porsche of computers. Never the fastest or cheapest, or most comfortable, but brother, aint nobody leave one dissapointed!

You know what? Porsche is faster than a pimped out Ford in every case. You know something else? Porsche is offering high-end stuff in every segment. Yeah, I mean fastest, most comfortable and state of the art technique.

 

[furio969]

The car engine hasn't changed in almost 100 years? Are you kiddin'? Your comparison is totally nonsense!



You know what? Porsche is faster than a pimped out Ford in every case. You know something else? Porsche is offering high-end stuff in every segment. Yeah, I mean fastest, most comfortable and state of the art technique.

Wrong. Computer wizz I may not be, but cars I know. PC's can be pimped out till the cows come home, just like american cars, but the whole Porsche package is put together by engineers so you dont need to change a thing aftermarket. (ok, maybe just a little if you want.)
No, the internal combustion engine is 99% the same. The rest of it is the accessories and parts, etc. And you know why? Because cars don't need to go any faster, just like computers dont. All computers can show pictures, videos, do texting and surfing. So new technology is based on lowering power consumption, just like car industry. Not too many people need to go 300 km/h, and not too many need hexacore multigibbledee gook processors for finding the secrets of the universe. So, as with cars and computers, the day has come that all of them can do what most people need. Whats important now is HOW it feels when you do it. Style

 

[DontMacTheGyver]

Wrong. Computer wizz I may not be, but cars I know. PC's can be pimped out till the cows come home, just like american cars, but the whole Porsche package is put together by engineers so you dont need to change a thing aftermarket. (ok, maybe just a little if you want.)
No, the internal combustion engine is 99% the same. The rest of it is the accessories and parts, etc. And you know why? Because cars don't need to go any faster, just like computers dont. All computers can show pictures, videos, do texting and surfing. So new technology is based on lowering power consumption, just like car industry. Not too many people need to go 300 km/h, and not too many need hexacore multigibbledee gook processors for finding the secrets of the universe. So, as with cars and computers, the day has come that all of them can do what most people need. Whats important now is HOW it feels when you do it. Style

Good post, I'm also an Apple addict and will never change to another system. Maybe you are right about the combustion machine, but... we did not reach that 300 km/h in computer industry. Never ever! Computers can always handle what people want to to, but the demands are growing over the years. 300 km/h at the moemnt would mean to me: zero boot time, zero process time. And when we start to talk about 3d technique... we begin again with 20 km/h! Or am I completely wrong?

-sorry for my limited english skills-

 

[tlinford]

Frontside Bus...

Really? As one who has a 12" PowerBook G4 1.5 in the house (from Dec. '05, the last version made), and can see how how sluggish it is and how it is limited running Tiger, still, it's hard for me to see the sense in that.

I waited and waited to upgrade my 12" until the MacBook's got the X3100 Intel GPU. Once, I got my MacBook and was blown away with how much faster it was and being able to run Windows natively and via Fusion, I strongly questioned if I had done myself a disservice in waiting so long.

It's hard for me to imagine what you might be able to do with your 12" G4 that the $1200 13" MBP couldn't. I would even hazard to guess that a $1200 13" MBP could last you another 4 or 5 years.

I vote you give yourself a "just because" present, get the 13" MBP, and be in awe at how much faster your computing experience will be. Or go to an Apple Store and give one a test drive and see if you can resist. I know I have a hard time...

The reason that the G4 iBook is comparatively slow has little to do with the CPU or memory size. My wife still uses her G4 iBook (it has a 1.25 Ghz CPU, and it really sucks when playing uTube etc), I can't persuade her to change because it's still great for what she does with it... document creation and presentations, where the performance of Tiger and the hardware is fine. The reason this machine is slow sluggish compared to modern machines in the speed of the frontside bus! I can't remember specific specs, but I seem to remember the iBook has around a 133Mhz compared to the current 1Ghz standard frontside Bus! that's where the performance lag lies... not my tweaking cpu speeds.... I could (theoretically) put in a 3GHZ processor into her iBook, but it would still have a snail-paced frontside bus! and it would still suck when playing uTube video..!

I changed a wile back from a white MacBook Core 2 Duo (2.1Ghz) to a MacBook Pro 13 Core 2 Duo (2.53 Ghz).... massive difference .... probably more to do with switching from a 667Mhz frontside bus to the 1067Mhz frontside, and by the DDR2 to DDR3 memory switch! than the cpu difference?

 

[mac(maybe)]

8gb?

Dear Mac experts,
This question defines my switching from lurker to poster... congratulations for this active community.

I have a couple of questions concerning the new 13'' MBP.
I am considering this option for the usual reasons: portability, price, battery life. But in the office I will connect it to a 24'' LCD, and use it for Unix programming, some graphical applications (molecular modeling) both locally (povray) and in remote (X-forwarding). Therefore I am considering to purchase 8 GB RAM.

1) Do you think MACOSX will exploit this Ram?
2) Will the additional RAM reduce battery life, even if not used?
3) Do you suggest some intermediate choice, like buying 2+2 and later expanding to 2+4GB when the prices of the RAM (at present outrageous) will drop a bit?

Thank you for your help!

Dan

 

[furio969]

Good post, I'm also an Apple addict and will never change to another system. Maybe you are right about the combustion machine, but... we did not reach that 300 km/h in computer industry. Never ever! Computers can always handle what people want to to, but the demands are growing over the years. 300 km/h at the moemnt would mean to me: zero boot time, zero process time. And when we start to talk about 3d technique... we begin again with 20 km/h! Or am I completely wrong?

Thanks for the compliment!
Well, in the past needs increased. But the consumers are not astrophysicists. They are people that surf forums, recipes, movie schedules. They watch movies, listen to music and download games and movies. That isnt going to change! I was refering to the CPU. I understand apple with c2d because already people arent using both cores. What you are saying we need relies on HD, RAM and screen output-graphics. I think these will improve, but CPU's for most people can be c2d.
Steve totally got it right! How many laptop users need an i5? Oh yeah, all those important students which need a 'pro' computer for taking notes or making powerpoint presentations
Please, I went to university without a laptop and lived.

 

[DontMacTheGyver]

Good post, I'm also an Apple addict and will never change to another system. Maybe you are right about the combustion machine, but... we did not reach that 300 km/h in computer industry. Never ever! Computers can always handle what people want to to, but the demands are growing over the years. 300 km/h at the moemnt would mean to me: zero boot time, zero process time. And when we start to talk about 3d technique... we begin again with 20 km/h! Or am I completely wrong?

Thanks for the compliment!
Well, in the past needs increased. But the consumers are not astrophysicists. They are people that surf forums, recipes, movie schedules. They watch movies, listen to music and download games and movies. That isnt going to change! I was refering to the CPU. I understand apple with c2d because already people arent using both cores. What you are saying we need relies on HD, RAM and screen output-graphics. I think these will improve, but CPU's for most people can be c2d.
Steve totally got it right! How many laptop users need an i5? Oh yeah, all those important students which need a 'pro' computer for taking notes or making powerpoint presentations
Please, I went to university without a laptop and lived.

Yeah you are right, but the 13" is a PRO machine. I don't complain about C2Ds beeing in the white MB. But I need a 13" killer machine, and YOU just as well. Our signatures speak volumes...

 

[pika2000]

Steve totally got it right! How many laptop users need an i5? Oh yeah, all those important students which need a 'pro' computer for taking notes or making powerpoint presentations

If that's the case, then using your previous analogy of cars, how many people need a Porsche? I mean for most people, a netbook is good enough. Imo you're contradicting yourself.

 

[pika2000]

Therefore I am considering to purchase 8 GB RAM.

1) Do you think MACOSX will exploit this Ram?
2) Will the additional RAM reduce battery life, even if not used?
3) Do you suggest some intermediate choice, like buying 2+2 and later expanding to 2+4GB when the prices of the RAM (at present outrageous) will drop a bit?

1. Yes, OS X supports 8GB RAM. However, you need 64 bit apps for them to utilize the extra RAM.
2. Probably not/not significant.
3. Depending how comfortable you are in opening up the Macbook Pro. With the new unibody design, it's much more complicated to upgrade the RAM yourself. If you're comfortable with a lot of screws, then you're fine. Otherwise, BTO it. Check out iFixit to see if you're comfortable in opening up the unibody MBP.

 

[furio969]

nope

If that's the case, then using your previous analogy of cars, how many people need a Porsche? I mean for most people, a netbook is good enough. Imo you're contradicting yourself.

I didnt contradict myself.
Why do you think they came up with the iPad?
For surfers and video watchers.
You dont need a mac or a Porsche, you just WANT one!

 

[gordon.freeman]

Marketing trick?

This can be a marketing trick as well. Apple knows that 13"s are the most desired ones and therefore they designed 13" Pro cheaply. If 13" had the same configurations as 15", 15" wouldn't have high sales as most people prefer smaller and compact laptops. Everybody would be purchasing 13"s, forgetting about 15"s. Maybe after some time, they will improve 13" to increase its sales again.

 

[furio969]

nope

This can be a marketing trick as well. Apple knows that 13"s are the most desired ones and therefore they designed 13" Pro cheaply. If 13" had the same configurations as 15", 15" wouldn't have high sales as most people prefer smaller and compact laptops. Everybody would be purchasing 13"s, forgetting about 15"s. Maybe after some time, they will improve 13" to increase its sales again.

It's not a trick, it's totally obvious. The 13 is bought for portability. It is also the one which previously had the worst graphics and with i5 would have even worse. Therefore, the needs of most of apple's customers(the 13 mbp buyers) are perfectly met with a better battery and graphics, and more than enough RAM. I seriously doubt any pro users are looking at a 13 inch portable computer!

 

[rdlink]

So it's not about heat, it's really about Intel's restrictions..

No wonder AMD are showing up at Apple HQ.

Yep. And given the fact that the iPad shipped with an Apple-owned proc, one begins to wonder whether the AMD visits were, in fact related to a possible purchase of the company. Perhaps Apple is tired of being held hostage by Intel's fights. Problem from my standpoint is that AMD comes with ATI. Don't like 'em. Never have.

 

[tlinford]

Just straight sales, not trickery?

This can be a marketing trick as well. Apple knows that 13"s are the most desired ones and therefore they designed 13" Pro cheaply. If 13" had the same configurations as 15", 15" wouldn't have high sales as most people prefer smaller and compact laptops. Everybody would be purchasing 13"s, forgetting about 15"s. Maybe after some time, they will improve 13" to increase its sales again.

I bought my MacBook Pro 13 for studying and Uni, it's great. It has more processing power than I need for study, the battery life is more important to me than running stupid games.... Doom 3, whats that my third exam?

The student take-up of the MacBook pro is awesome...

I was a conference last week, using my MacBook for note-taking. When I was leaving I noticed a guy, doing the same as me, with a 17 inch Dell Alienware beast of a Slab-Top... Given the illuminations on the lid I assume he was carrying a portable generator? I wondered whether his next trick, would be to drop his pants!

Come-on, lets talk about what matters!

All this processor hype, pails into silliness compared to the the IPad A4, based on single core 32 bit tech!!!!

 

[SimonTheSoundMa]

I'd say remove the DVD drive and use the MBA's external one. This story was based on a ArsTechnica article and the only question that hasn't been answered is:

Then Apple can supply software via SD card, pen drive or by download.

I do not fancy downloading software such as Logic Studio which comes on many DVD's, but they could supply it on one ROM SD card. ROM based chips are cheap compared to NAND chips, large storage capacities that reads faster than the USB2 interface it is connected to.

 

[iMacmatician]

I don't even think Arrandale was out yet when the 21.5 iMacs were released, was it?

No it wasn't.

I use the optical drive a lot more often that I use the audio in/out ports or the external monitor connection, all of which I have never once used. (But I still wouldn't want to see them removed, because who know when they might be useful.)

Don't those ports take up a comparatively small part of the notebook? So that removing them doesn't really free up space for better components?

Well I hope by then Intel can do a whole lot better than their crappy "HD" IGP. Intel being Intel, I'm not willing to give them a pass and assume "great results in terms of ... performance". After all, these are the same people who brought us the GMA 950...

There's a report saying 2x the GMA HD. Then again a while ago the GMA HD was rumored to be 2x the performance of the (I think) X4500.

They tried that with the MacBook Air. Sales weren't very exciting. I use my Superdrive all the time - both at home and one the road.

Don't you think the lack of MacBook Air sales had something to do with the lack of expandable RAM, small hard drive, and general low-spec [not necessarily low-end] components in addition to the lack of an optical drive?

A MacBook Pro without an optical drive won't be a MacBook Air. If anything, it'll be the opposite—more powerful components than the regular MBP.

 

[the Western zoo]

When I first read that the new 13" were not using an i5 CPU but had stayed behind in the realm of C2D I was very disappointed, because I was looking to update my current system. Then I realized that the reason for this is that Apple chose to go for an upgrade focusing on GPU and battery, the two things that really annoys me about my two years old MB, so in fact this was exactly the update I was looking for!

So once I convinced my self that I could actually go on living even though the CPU in my laptop didn't have a name starting with an i I ordered!

 

[jnc]

I'm curious how the 13" will handle Steam OSX games. L4D2 in particular, as I own a PS3 not a 360.
Any news on that? Thought it was going to be April.

Got a 13" 2.66GHz, 4GB RAM, 256GB SSD in the shopping basket now... I use a Cintiq and Adobe CS3. Probably moving to CS5.

 

[Steve121178]

I sure as hell hope they solve it ASAP... I associate AMD with cheap computers.

I associate AMD with extreme heat & poor battery life. Therefore I can't see Apple jumping to AMD anytime soon.

 

[OutSpoken]

Unfortunately Apple is kind of neglecting the 13" because they don't make as much money off it. .....

Yeah..you sure about that? I would beg to differ. I would say the 13" is probably their most popular size and model, all imo of course.

 

[John.B]

Or simply put a high-powered USB port that supports the MBA's external optical drive.
And yeah, +1 for the OS on a USB drive.

Don't the new MBPs already have higher powered USB ports?

 

[butterfly0fdoom]

You mean the regular-size battery or the larger size?

Well, a 3-cell would fit flush with the computer, a 6-cell would have one row flush and a second row "attached" at an angle to the other 3 cells. A 9 cell, would just be the 3 cell flush and the remain 6 cells shoehorned on in some odd aesthetic fashion. What you need to consider is for the Sony, a 3-cell battery fits flush with the computer whereas for the Apple, what's probably the equivalent of somewhere between a 6-cell and a 9-cell fits flush with the body; that alone should give you an indication in how the Sony has more space for more components; since the Sony is thicker, they can utilize more space on both sides of the board too whereas Apple has to literally cram everything on. Now I'm no engineer so I could be way wrong, I'm just saying what I assume from pictures of the internals of both computers.