Another Look at Apple's Core 2 Duo Choice for New 13-Inch MacBook Pro

[DeepIn2U]

Right now, it's true that Intel mobile CPUs are much better.

But Intel is giving AMD an opening... Intel has made the i3 so unattractive that, basically, AMD only needs to beat (or even just match) the Core 2 Duo -- a years old architecture, to get back in the game at the lower end.

AMD reducing performance JUST to stay in the realm of consideration for battery life while reducing competitive performance for the "Neo" cpu is NOT an opening, let alone the 8mth timeframe AMD has posted just to be compeitive with i3/i5 - not i7. By then Intel will have something new.

 

[DeepIn2U]

You obviously missed another option - redesign the case. Or is too much to ask?

The case design is not so much the issue - its the material. Aluminum conducts heat VERY well - too well that it ends up on your lap in a short 10mins!!

Apple would need either faster fans, open the existing gap in the screen hinge or goto 2 hinges all together - I hate 2 hinges!!

I may not go for this bump - the C2D I have YET to see anything factually different from the 2.4Ghz P8600 in my 2008 MacBook. I have 4GB RAM, 320GB HDD and although I have the 9400M serves me quite well. ONLY the newer 320M is any better really in day to day Word/Excel/Web/Email processing. For me where it REALLY counts is Audio production or Movie editing, burning, transfer or new features & transitions in OS X 10.6.4+ down the road.

For now I'll remain with my new love - MB aluminum. This Winter I may just upgrade and my wife or daughter will have my machine as a backup.

 

[Eric S.]

You mean this?

Yes I do.

http://blog.screenaid.com/2010/04/13/sony-vaio-z119-disassembly/

It's freakin' tiny. The board itself is a little over 90 grams.

Hey, thanks for that. Very interesting. Hard to tell from the pictures but the logic board looks a little bigger than the MBP 13" board. But what is really interesting is that it appears to have chips mounted on both sides. For example the HM57 Platform Controller Hub appears to be directly on the reverse of the Arrandale/Nvidia graphics ICs. Given the thinness of the MBP 13" case, I suspect Apple would have a hard time taking a similar approach.

 

[weenerdog]

When is apple gonna remove the freakin optical drive!

We could have dedicated graphics, i5 and a larger battery to compensate...

I haven't used the optical drive once so far this year apple! It's taking up such a huge percentage of space in the already slim casing. At least make it an option.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Wishful thinking...

Nobody

Also, the Arrandale chipset that has to be used with the i5/i7 CPUs doesn't support USB3. Thank Intel for that little bit of genius.

Bull! HP's full new lineup of high end EliteBooks have USB 3.0! Regardless of varying choice of CPU's by ATi & Nvidia.

Was going to upgrade my 2yr old 13" Unibody MacBook but the only real difference is the graphics. My old MacBook as the same CPU as the new one so i can't quite get my head round upgrading but on the other hand I like to upgrade every 2yrs and sell my old MacBook with a years Applecare which gives me a good price

I agree with getting rid of the superdrive, We are moving away from optical media just like we moved away from Floppy Disks, Apple could supply OSX on a SD-Card or USB Stick, It would also be a good idea if Apple included a Software store on itunes so we could download Apps and games direct like we can for the iPhone etc.

I definately don't want to go bigger than 13" though, for me anything over is just not portable.

This is what I've been trying to say. Though I do love the DVD burning. I actually used it today in Parallels Win7 to burn software for a friend to install just to give the trial a run. Neither of use knew how to use Ad-Hoc to transfer over - especially from my VM. Soon, Apple will do what you suggest with a massive server farm in Illinois; trust me its not TOO far in the future and with higher bandwidth Cable/DSL internet at decent pricing it'll be primed for it; along with proven system. Though tighter restriction on re-installing software on multiple machine is most likely a non-ideal result.

 

[jegbook]

Along with the lack of matte screen, this is a major reason why I decided not to upgrade my old 12" PowerBook G4 from 2004, even though I waited months for a refresh. Until they get it right, I'll keep using what works best for me. I'm not going to buy a litigation-influenced product.

Really? As one who has a 12" PowerBook G4 1.5 in the house (from Dec. '05, the last version made), and can see how how sluggish it is and how it is limited running Tiger, still, it's hard for me to see the sense in that.

I waited and waited to upgrade my 12" until the MacBook's got the X3100 Intel GPU. Once, I got my MacBook and was blown away with how much faster it was and being able to run Windows natively and via Fusion, I strongly questioned if I had done myself a disservice in waiting so long.

It's hard for me to imagine what you might be able to do with your 12" G4 that the $1200 13" MBP couldn't. I would even hazard to guess that a $1200 13" MBP could last you another 4 or 5 years.

I vote you give yourself a "just because" present, get the 13" MBP, and be in awe at how much faster your computing experience will be. Or go to an Apple Store and give one a test drive and see if you can resist. I know I have a hard time...

 

[AidenShaw]

Also, the Arrandale chipset that has to be used with the i5/i7 CPUs doesn't support USB3. Thank Intel for that little bit of genius.

Bull! HP's full new lineup of high end EliteBooks have USB 3.0! Regardless of varying choice of CPU's by ATi & Nvidia.

You are both more-or-less right. Even if Intel doesn't have USB 3.0 on the platform controller (once called the Southbridge) any company can connect a USB3 chip to PCIe lanes.

So yes, Arrandale doesn't support USB 3.0, but systems with Arrandale can support USB 3.0.

 

[jegbook]

I'm really impressed how lots of people still resisting to use that media from last century (sorry, it's so old I forgot the name ... oh ... I remember ! CD !).

Now we have a new technology called Flash Drives ! It's smaller, doesn't scratch, doesn't need a cover, it's A LOT faster, and many other pluses. Also you can now transfer data wirelessly ! Yeah ! No media needed ! It's thru the air ! Ain't it magical ?

Seriously, I have used my optical drive exactly 3 times since I bought my 13" MBP. One to burn a ubuntu DVD (just because I was lazy to turn on the desktop) and other 2 to do a disk check with SL disc. Yeah, I instelled Snow Leopard without a disc.

While this is true, flash drives aren't quite as cheap as ~$.10 a piece. So, when a friend from out of town visits and would like to take the pictures from the weekend back home with them, shipping them off with a $10 flash instead of a $.10 CD doesn't seem to make much sense.

A song mix on a flash drive doesn't plug into your friend's car stereo too well, either. (Not yet, at least. Maybe another couple years.)

Optical will go away, but for now, ditching it as a risky move. They could offer two versions: with and without optical, but I think we've seen Apple long enough to know that this is a move they are not going to make.

 

[jegbook]

Sub par? Who sells a better IGP for Arrandale?

</sarcasm>

Seriously though, probably 90% to 95% of laptop users have no need for anything more than the Arrandale HD graphics. It does hardware accelerated video and Flash (as long as you are running Windows or Linux) - which is the most graphics intensive taks that most people do. (N.B.: most of the time your Arrandale MacBook Pro is using the Intel IGP - certainly the case when Apple is measuring battery lifetime.)

Let those 5% to 10% who need more buy the systems that have discrete GPUs. Apple's refusal to provide a wider range of systems doesn't make Intel HD "sub-par".




Unless Apple made it a tiny bit thicker (say 2mm).

Probably true about the needs of most laptop users, however, this doesn't take OpenCl into account. Those 48 GPU cores could come in real handy for that, whereas the Intel IGP would be sitting idle. (I'm assuming the Intel IGP would be wasted, but don't know for sure, admittedly.)

 

[Eidorian]

Probably true about the needs of most laptop users, however, this doesn't take OpenCl into account. Those 48 GPU cores could come in real handy for that, whereas the Intel IGP would be sitting idle. (I'm assuming the Intel IGP would be wasted, but don't know for sure, admittedly.)

What uses OpenCL?

I've heard of CUDA ones and maybe one ATI Stream application.

 

[macnerd93]

Unfortunately Apple is kind of neglecting the 13" because they don't make as much money off it. However, I would gladly pay $2000 or more for a 13" if it had the same specs as a larger MBP but in a smaller package. Apple's excuse for not upgrading the 13" (to i5 processors or discrete graphics or giving it an expresscard slot) is that they can't fit everything in and maintain the battery life. The solution is to ditch the optical drive since it is becoming less relevant every day.

Lose the optical drive what planet are you from, I use my optical drive almost everyday for burning my projects in DVD studio pro for college not to mention all the software I have on disk for OS X. I already have an external Blu-ray one via USB & thats slow, plus it would use a USB port up, bad idea.

 

[Eric S.]

Actually, it's not. Yours is the older Penryn C2D. The new ones are Arrandale - so the performance difference is much greater than the modest clock rate difference.

Am I misunderstanding you? The 13" MBP still has C2D.

 

[tigress666]

If you want performance, get the 15", but since you can't afford it, you chose to bitch and whine about the model you actually can afford, the 13".

BS. Just cause you don't want a 13" unless that is what you can afford doesn't mean others don't actually prefer a 13".

You might want to realize that not everyone wants what you want or is in the same situation. Me for example? I do want performance. But I also buy a laptop cause I want portability. I have a nice monitor at home I connect my laptop on and pretty much use it like a desktop (complete with connecting it up with a keyboard). And when I need it to be portable, 13" is a good compromise (since the majority of hte time I am using it at home but it is nice to be able to take my computer with me when I travel and I do use the portability at least once a week).

So, yeah, I'm much more likely to spend more money on a more expensive laptop if it stays the 13" size rather than having to compromise and buy a bigger laptop (so instead I'll wait and hope Apple comes out with a better 13" one day or until my laptop breaks. Or consider if MacOS is really that important to me since I could find a PC that has good specs and is a 13"). But I'm not going to go buy the 15" to get better specs when having a smaller size is very important (cause in my opinion, the whole point of a laptop is portability. The bigger you get, the not as easy to carry around it gets. And I have a nice screen at home for the majority of my use of the laptop).

 

[jegbook]

What uses OpenCL?

I've heard of CUDA ones and maybe one ATI Stream application.

This is a fair point. I'll admit, my reference of OpenCL is assuming broader adoption by software and incorporation into the OS in the future. OpenCL is of minimal help at the moment.

10.7 will show us tight integration of OpenCL throughout the OS? Completely a guess there...

 

[bozeefus]

Due to some fortunate circumstances, I can now justify splurging on a Macbook Pro 13 Unfortunately, I do not see the current hardware as a big upgrade from my old Dell laptop.

Hopefully the next refresh will be better.

 

[0092762]

There will be ZERO difference between this 13" pro vs. the older one in terms of graphics for the majority, who don't play games.
OpenCL is stillborn, the most common tasks such as Flash don't have GPU acceleration on the 13". However, the 13" is not such a bad buy if you put windows on it, at least you'd be able to use that GPU for other stuff besides drawing windows on a screen.

 

[kairyss]

Question: Is it worth $300 more for the slightly faster CPU and slightly bigger hard drive in the 13" MBP?

 

[tigress666]

Question: Is it worth $300 more for the slightly faster CPU and slightly bigger hard drive in the 13" MBP?

I dunno, if I were choosing between the Macbook and the Macbook 13" pro, I'd splurge the 300 for the:

* Better graphics card (yes, I do want to do some gaming with mine).

* More RAM

* Extra port (two USBs and a firewire. Yes, I find that useful cause that means I can plug in my keyboard as the majority of the time I'm using my laptop as a desktop, iphone, and external hard drive that uses firewire all at once)

* Better Battery Life

* backlit keyboard

*Nice black border around the screen (that makes a difference, makes the picture look better)

*hopefully better casing (least in my macbook's case the frikkin palm rest area cracked on every single one. Don't know if the new ones have the same problem but I'm wary anyways)

*slightly thinner design (smaller the better. It's why I want a 13" over a 15").

Anyways, those are the reasons I think it's worth paying the extra 300 for (listed mostly in order of importance to me. Only reason slightly thinner comes in last cause it really isn't that much thinner so it wouldn't be a dealbreaker for me and better casing is second to last cause apple store guy claims the new ones don't have the same issues mine has so it may be a moot point).

The faster CPU? Not sure it's really that big a difference seeing as it is not much numerically and it's the same processor. And hard drives are cheap to replace (and at least with my macbook very easy to replace. I replaced mine and it was not hard at all. In fact my hard drive is as big as the one they aer offering on current macbook pro. Took them three years to match me just slipping in one I bought after market 2 years ago!).

But, think of it this way. It's got double the ram (2 gig ram chip is about 50 dollars). The bigger hard drive (haven't looked but let's say it would set you back at least 100 to replace). Already you got 150 dollars of the difference. Are all the other extras worth the extra 150 dollars (and is hard drive and/or ram even worth it to you to pay extra?).

 

[DontMacTheGyver]

While this is true, flash drives aren't quite as cheap as ~$.10 a piece. So, when a friend from out of town visits and would like to take the pictures from the weekend back home with them, shipping them off with a $10 flash instead of a $.10 CD doesn't seem to make much sense.

A song mix on a flash drive doesn't plug into your friend's car stereo too well, either. (Not yet, at least. Maybe another couple years.)

Optical will go away, but for now, ditching it as a risky move. They could offer two versions: with and without optical, but I think we've seen Apple long enough to know that this is a move they are not going to make.

This really depends on the point of view... I really never use my optical drive. Even SL entered my MacBook via flash drive.

I wan't to give the pictures from the weekend to my friend out of town? Not a problem, I just put it on his flash drive he has on his bunch of keys. I am a student at university and everyone I know has one in his pocket.
And yes, even my car and my friends' cars have a USB input jack...

I know Apple is not gooing to drop the optical 'cause most of the common people are still using it. But please... make it optional! And don't come with this "there is the MBA for you..." I just need a 13" PRO machine, and to be honest, at the moment Apple offers none!

 

[furio969]

new

Still that's a lot of money for an old processor!

It's not old, it's brand new
You arent paying for the processor, you'r paying for the product. The computer which works the way a Mac works.
The car engine hasnt changed in almost 100 years, yet we keep paying new money for old technology.

 

[pika2000]

Regarding the Vaio Z.

First of all, try to take a look at the price difference between the two, I don't think I need to explain this at all.

Secondly, the Vaio Z lacks any of the features that make the MBP such a great laptop, besides weight, but then again it feels pretty cheaply made compared to the unibody design.

Really? Cheaply made? There's an option on the Z for carbon fiber, and it comes with SSD standard (in RAID to boot). After trying to configure the Z and 13" MBP as close as possible the Z is only a couple hundreds dollar more expensive, considering it has Core i5, 1600x900 screen res, and discrete nVidia GPU (with 1GB vram), things that you cannot even add on for the MBP. Now, I'm a Mac user, but let's face it, reading the article explaining the reason not using Core ix processors on the 13" MBP to be space and discrete GPU, well, those reasons sound more like a cheap excuse.

 

[pika2000]

Also look at the price of the Vaio Z series. Considerably more than a MBP 13", in fact almost 50% more for the base model Z.

The base model of the Z already comes with Core i5, 1600x900 res screen, discrete nVidia GPU with 1GB vram, and 128GB SSD in RAID, things that you cannot even add on for the 13" MBP. I'm a Mac user, but I give credit where it's due, and Sony did a good job on the Z series. My point was related to the article pointing out that the reason Apple didn't use the Core ix processors on the 13" MBP were space and discrete GPU, which obviously completely feasible looking at the Vaio Z.

 

[furio969]

Really? Cheaply made? There's an option on the Z for carbon fiber, and it comes with SSD standard (in RAID to boot). After trying to configure the Z and 13" MBP as close as possible the Z is only a couple hundreds dollar more expensive, considering it has Core i5, 1600x900 screen res, and discrete nVidia GPU (with 1GB vram), things that you cannot even add on for the MBP. Now, I'm a Mac user, but let's face it, reading the article explaining the reason not using Core ix processors on the 13" MBP to be space and discrete GPU, well, those reasons sound more like a cheap excuse.

You know what? This specs vs MAcs argument can be compared to cars. You can pimp out a Ford to high heaven and it will STILL never be a Porsche. Driving experience- a combination of everything from build quality, ergonomics, engineering, to the human factor of 'it just works'. APPLE, my friends, is THE Porsche of computers. Never the fastest or cheapest, or most comfortable, but brother, aint nobody leave one dissapointed!

 

[Ann P]

You know what? This specs vs MAcs argument can be compared to cars. You can pimp out a Ford to high heaven and it will STILL never be a Porsche. Driving experience- a combination of everything from build quality, ergonomics, engineering, to the human factor of 'it just works'. APPLE, my friends, is THE Porsche of computers. Never the fastest or cheapest, or most comfortable, but brother, aint nobody leave one dissapointed!

Wow, really?

 

[pika2000]

That Vaio Z costs 2000$, you can buy a bigger, faster Macbook Pro in that amount. Not to mention with double the battery life.

Do you realize that you just make the same argument that all regular Windows/PC trolls have always been making, that they can get a bigger and better Windows laptop vs a Mac? For the same form factor, the Vaio Z packs a discrete GPU, Core i5, SSD in RAID, and 1600x900 res screen, all in a compact 13" form factor and decent battery life (sure it's not 10 hours, but it's better than the rest of Windows laptops out there). Let's give credits where it's due, Sony did a good job with the Z.