iPhone 11 Antenna Gain

[jkozlow3]

My concern is that ALL of our iPhones which we currently have active on AT&T right now, whether 7, 7+, 8, 8+, X and Xs Max with Qualcomm cellular in all of them except for the Xs Max, have poor signal and data speed in fringe or weak areas like where we live.

The cell towers above us on Cheyenne Mountain don't have enough vertical spread to hit the homes in my neighborhood that are too close and below the towers. Other neighbors on Verizon and T-Mo in the neighborhood have the same issues.

ALL of our active iPhones have 1 bar of LTE at home, or they switch to 2 bars of 4G if they lose LTE. And without WiFi calling they can all experience call failed if in LTE. We've been used to this for years. No phone upgrade has fixed this, and before WiFi calling was a thing we had to use a micro-cell in the house.

For starters, you live in a city that is consistently ranked last (or near-last) for cell phone reception in the U.S. It has been this way for years in CO Springs. AT&T is terrible in the Springs. Verizon is a bit better. I used to live there and have used both networks several times over about a 10 year period. They both are truly terrible in COS vs. other cities I've lived (many). That said, Verizon has DEFINITELY improved their network in the Springs in recent years - I witnessed this first hand before leaving ~1.5 years ago.

The phone can only do so much if the cell service is lacking. That said, I have suspected for years that the iPhones are too conservative and don't switch to the stronger bands soon enough. For example, with Verizon, band 13 (low frequency) is stronger and travels much further than the higher frequency band 4. Think of band 13 like 2.4GHz WiFi and band 4 like 5GHz WiFi. 2.4GHz won't give you the highest speeds but it travels further distances. This is band 13 in a nutshell.

But Verizon doesn't like for phones to use band 13 except when absolutely necessary as it has much less bandwidth and capacity vs. band 4. If you reboot or toggle airplane mode on a Verizon phone, you'll often see full bars of LTE for a minute (band 13) before it drops to band 4 and you'll often be left with 1-2 bars. It always locks onto band 13 first however. The problem is, the phone will hang onto band 4 for dear life and almost never switch back to the stronger band 13 - even if that means dropping a call or losing usable service.

It seems that it should switch to band 13 sooner once the band 4 signal degrades to a certain point - just like how WiFi devices with automatically switch from the 5GHz band to 2.4GHz if you get too far from the router (assuming the SSID is the same for both the 5GHz and 2.4GHz networks).

I don't know where the logic lies for determining when to switch bands. I've had Verizon's network team tell me several times that it's controlled in Apple's software and that there's nothing they can do about it. I've opened tickets with Apple and their engineers have told me the opposite - the cell tower makes the determination and instructs the device which band to use based on signal levels reported from the device to the tower. Who is right? Beats me.

 

[jkozlow3]

Unfortunately, the Verizon Network Extender allows anyone, with Verizon Cell Service, close enough to to the Network Extender, to connect to it. Even though it creates a tunnel (VPN) to Verizon servers, anyone within range can use your Microcell (Network extender) and your broadband to make and receive calls. Not kosher in my book. You pay to buy the device, and relieve the congestion to Verizon's towers... hmmm

This is the reason I never got one. AT&T's Microcell let's you setup a whitelist so that you can specify who actually connects to your device and is on your network (using your broadband). They do allow you to prioritize your own devices, but that doesn't keep other people from connecting to open "slots".

A quote from the Verizon FAQ (number 1 under Management and Security):
Can I manage and limit access to the 4G LTE Network Extender to a select set of mobile devices?
No, the 4G LTE Network Extender only supports open mode. While Managed mode is being evaluated, Verizon makes no warranty as to its timing or availability.

I agree it's an awesome device, if Verizon would stop being so arrogant, and let the user lock it down.

EDIT: If the behavior I have described has changed, please show me screenshots of the setup screen where you can whitelist devices, and block all other unknown devices. I would love to get one of these. I have one bar of service in my apt. Thanks!

It's really not that big of a deal if a couple of neighbors connect to your extender to make voice calls. I've owned the Verizon LTE extender in the past and never saw more than a couple of additional neighbors on the list of active users. They all had their own WiFi at home I presume (who doesn't??). Anyway, I would have never even known they were using my extender if it weren't for me logging into the extender's web management page. I think you're making a bigger deal out of it than necessary.

Additionally, you can reduce the output power of the extender via the web management tool so that it doesn't broadcast as strong of a signal if you live in a small apartment and this will keep *most* of your neighbors off the extender (maybe not your nearest ones however if they are Verizon customers).

 

[Packers1958]

It's really not that big of a deal if a couple of neighbors connect to your extender to make voice calls. I've owned the Verizon LTE extender in the past and never saw more than a couple of additional neighbors on the list of active users. They all had their own WiFi at home I presume (who doesn't??). Anyway, I would have never even known they were using my extender if it weren't for me logging into the extender's web management page. I think you're making a bigger deal out of it than necessary.

Additionally, you can reduce the output power of the extender via the web management tool so that it doesn't broadcast as strong of a signal if you live in a small apartment and this will keep *most* of your neighbors off the extender (maybe not your nearest ones however if they are Verizon customers).

They do use your data though. If someone has unlimited data on their phone, they could use their phone as a wifi hotspot, use your isp connection, and not need their own home wifi or cable provider. That could cause issues if you have a data cap with your isp.

 

[jkozlow3]

They do use your data though. If someone has unlimited data on their phone, they could use their phone as a wifi hotspot, use your isp connection, and not need their own home wifi or cable provider. That could cause issues if you have a data cap with you isp.

I suppose that's possible, but...

The likelihood of a nearby neighbor (with ~50 feet of your apartment/home) meeting all 5 of these conditions is pretty slim:

1. Being a Verizon customer
2. Not having home WiFi themselves
3. Having an unlimited data plan
4. Deciding to tether their phone to provide WiFi to their other devices
5. Using enough of your ISP data to where it even matters towards your data cap. I've never come anywhere near my ISP's data cap and I work from home and use DirectTV Now streaming services in lieu of cable tv along with Netflix, Hulu, etc.

If the situation arises, deal with it at that time. In the mean time, why worry about it? It's not a super likely scenario.

 

[Packers1958]

I suppose that's possible, but...

The likelihood of a nearby neighbor (with ~50 feet of your apartment/home) meeting all 5 of these conditions is pretty slim:

1. Being a Verizon customer
2. Not having home WiFi themselves
3. Having an unlimited data plan
4. Deciding to tether their phone to provide WiFi to their other devices
5. Using enough of your ISP data to where it even matters towards your data cap. I've never come anywhere near my ISP's data cap and I work from home and use DirectTV Now streaming services in lieu of cable tv along with Netflix, Hulu, etc.

If the situation arises, deal with it at that time. In the mean time, why worry about it? It's not a super likely scenario.

That's true. I thought i read 50 yards, but it is 50 feet.

 

[crouch]

So I just ran two more tests, both done in the same spot as yesterday:

Test 3 (10:04am) 14.6 Mbps down, 0.12 Mbps up, call attempt successful
Test 4 (10:26am) No internet connection available, call attempt successful

On the plus side, I was able to make calls

Re: your phone and Friday's delivery, maybe you'll be okay? It honestly seems like it's an issue only occurring in very low signal areas (where unfortunately my home office is located.)

My 8+ spoiled me with its ability to handle the situation

My thoughts on antenna gain on the new 11 Pro after upgrading from the XS this morning. Long story short, the 11 Pro is just as bad as the XS.

 

[ROLLTIDE1]

My thoughts on antenna gain on the new 11 Pro after upgrading from the XS this morning. Long story short, the 11 Pro is just as bad as the XS.

Thanks for the update and not what I wanted to hear

 

[PBz]

I have friends that curse at the RF of their XSM.

 

[ROLLTIDE1]

I have sheep friends that say that there is nothing wrong with there XS models when the evidence says otherwise

 

[crouch]

I have sheep friends that say that there is nothing wrong with there XS models when the evidence says otherwise

It's frustrating. I know most people's phones are fine! And that this just affects a few of us. Still, the disbelief and the debating grows old.

I just want a solution more than anything.

 

[LostAggie]

My current XR is okay. My wife’s XS is a little worse.

Was skeptical of this refresh but unless better RF not upgrading.

 

[robrobrobro]

It's frustrating. I know most people's phones are fine! And that this just affects a few of us. Still, the disbelief and the debating grows old.

I just want a solution more than anything.

Thanks for keeping us updated! I happen to think it's more than a small number of people affected. I was away with about 10 people in Virginia last month. Most of us on Verizon, and one girl had a XS Max. Hers was the only phone in many situations with no service. She didn't seem to notice that it's a problem though, which I suspect is the situation in most cases. Meanwhile, my 8 also on Verizon could usually pull data (if slowly).

Sadly, I feel like the only solution is to go for the standard 11 over the Pro.

 

[Kimmie92592]

Anyone here get a standard 11 yet? Curious to see if it’s better.

 

[mackie8]

Anyone here get a standard 11 yet? Curious to see if it’s better.

I have the iphone 11....
Honestly im expecting improvements too...
But same with my previous XR there are same network drop when im playing and on a fb messenger calls

 

[DCIFRTHS]

It's really not that big of a deal if a couple of neighbors connect to your extender to make voice calls. I've owned the Verizon LTE extender in the past and never saw more than a couple of additional neighbors on the list of active users. They all had their own WiFi at home I presume (who doesn't??). Anyway, I would have never even known they were using my extender if it weren't for me logging into the extender's web management page. I think you're making a bigger deal out of it than necessary.

Additionally, you can reduce the output power of the extender via the web management tool so that it doesn't broadcast as strong of a signal if you live in a small apartment and this will keep *most* of your neighbors off the extender (maybe not your nearest ones however if they are Verizon customers).

I live in a big apartment building, and I’m not interested in using my bandwidth for my neighbors.

I also don’t like the security implications of unknown devices on my network call me paranoid... I’m just not good with that.

 

[Sappharad]

I received my iPhone 11 Pro (normal sized) model earlier today. It's going to take me a few days to get a full idea of how well it works, but from an ignorance standpoint it's been identical to my iPhone X so far. My Qualcom iPhone X usually reads between 1 or 2 bars when I'm at home, and anywhere between 1 and 3 while I'm at work. The Intel iPhone 11 Pro is reading the same way at home. (work untested)

The story changes once I pull up field test mode. My iPhone X was reading -110db this morning, whereas the 11 Pro is reading -118 to -126db right now in the same place. I had intended to get field test readings over the span of a few days, but unfortunately I only took several measurements at work so I don't have good data to compare to. I will compare to the several readings I got at work to get a better idea of how much different it is. Based on some signal test graphs, -126 was the lowest the XS could go before losing a signal and -130 for the X so I'm right on the bottom end of where the phone can keep a connection. This is somewhat concerning, but I haven't actually lost service yet which was my threshold for keep vs. return. I have Wifi calling so as long as my cellular service works at home with Wifi off and data works too it meets my threshold. I'm only getting about 8mbit down over cellular with my signal at home, but that's comparable to what I got with slightly better reception on the X with the slower modem.

Initial conclusions:
- Field test data compared with iPhone X matches expected results - it's slightly worse, but unless you were already at the very bottom of the threshold it's probably not enough to take your signal away.

I'll follow up next week with how things are the first few days, how signal strength compares when I'm at work since I have multiple field test measurements there, and whether I've decided to keep it or not. I'm nervous about being at the very bottom of the reception limit but so far it's holding stable.

 

[jkozlow3]

I live in a big apartment building, and I’m not interested in using my bandwidth for my neighbors.

I also don’t like the security implications of unknown devices on my network call me paranoid... I’m just not good with that.

OK, live with subpar service then. Your choice. Pick your poison.

BTW, there are no security implications or unknown devices on your network. The network extender uses a VPN tunnel to Verizon. If an "unknown" device happens to be connected to your network extender for the purpose of using data, it is using that data over a VPN tunnel. The devices connected to the extender have no access to anything on your network and your ISP has no visibility to the traffic used over that VPN tunnel. This is a known fact about VPNs. They simply see that "encrypted data" is being sent & received. Again, you are being paranoid about something that's a non-issue IMO.

 

[Velin]

Unfortunately, the Verizon Network Extender allows anyone, with Verizon Cell Service, close enough to to the Network Extender, to connect to it. Even though it creates a tunnel (VPN) to Verizon servers, anyone within range can use your Microcell (Network extender) and your broadband to make and receive calls. Not kosher in my book. You pay to buy the device, and relieve the congestion to Verizon's towers... hmmm

I consider this a feature, not a bug. If people visiting me have Verizon, I want them to be able to connect to my extender without any fuss -- no permissions, no passwords, no lockouts or authorities, etc. Please, make my Network Extender LTE signal available automatically to anyone who needs it, and done. Great design. Further, even the default range on the Network Extender is limited enough to where it's highly unlikely neighbors or a passersby will be using your bandwidth -- and in any event, that "bandwidth use" is extremely limited, on the rare occassion it occurs (almost never).

With the Verizon Network Extender, Verizon customers get a close-to-plug-and-play device, providing full/five bars, fantastic connection, excellent voice, no dropped calls, better phone battery life, and alleviates that nagging concern about the LTE connection. A Verizon customer no longer has to ask, "how do I sound? Can you hear me?" You eliminate all of it, the tradeoff being there may be the very, very rare occasion that someone within fifty to one hundred feet of the Network Extender makes a call and uses some minimal bandwidth. That tradeoff is so totally worth it. And that's why this particular product is a great seller for Verizon.

 

[Packers1958]

I put my 11 pro in field test mode, and then did that on the X. Below are the measurements. First one is the 11, 2nd is the X. Location was in same part of the house. Was not able to get the exact same field test display as the 11 Pro is intel, and X is qualcomm. Qualcomm doesn't show rsrp0 or rsrp1, only RSRP, same with rsrq. If my memory serves me right, the 11 Pro measurements were similar to the Xs Max that I sold.

 

[tonyy]

I put my 11 pro in field test mode, and then did that on the X. Below are the measurements. First one is the 11, 2nd in the X. Location was in same part of the house. Was not able to get the exact same field test display as the 11 Pro is intel, and X is qualcomm. Qualcomm doesn't show rsrp0 or rsrp1, only RSRP, same with rsrq.

View attachment 861243View attachment 861244

Seems like general consensus is it’s about the same as last years models. Sticking with my Qualcomm X for another year.

 

[Packers1958]

Seems like general consensus is it’s about the same as last years models. Sticking with my Qualcomm X for another year.

To be fair, last night I went to a restaurant where I knew my Xs Max failed all the time to keep a connection. Took the X instead, and it failed just like the Xs Max. Both would show 1 to 2 bars at most, and neither would connect.

 

[crouch]

To be fair, last night I went to a restaurant where I knew my Xs Max failed all the time to keep a connection. Took the X instead, and it failed just like the Xs Max. Both would show 1 to 2 bars at most, and neither would connect.

Someone made an interesting point in another thread, that perhaps the carriers were being more aggressive now in switching your phone to the band they want, and not what makes the most effective sense for you.

I realized tonight that my dead zone problems on the new Pro 11 are easily solved if I turn the LTE off. (I get dead zones in my house, even with one to two bars of service showing.) Why doesn't the phone figure this out on its own, and switch to 3G automatically?

 

[Tofupunch]

I received my iPhone 11 Pro (normal sized) model earlier today. It's going to take me a few days to get a full idea of how well it works, but from an ignorance standpoint it's been identical to my iPhone X so far. My Qualcom iPhone X usually reads between 1 or 2 bars when I'm at home, and anywhere between 1 and 3 while I'm at work. The Intel iPhone 11 Pro is reading the same way at home. (work untested)

The story changes once I pull up field test mode. My iPhone X was reading -110db this morning, whereas the 11 Pro is reading -118 to -126db right now in the same place. I had intended to get field test readings over the span of a few days, but unfortunately I only took several measurements at work so I don't have good data to compare to. I will compare to the several readings I got at work to get a better idea of how much different it is. Based on some signal test graphs, -126 was the lowest the XS could go before losing a signal and -130 for the X so I'm right on the bottom end of where the phone can keep a connection. This is somewhat concerning, but I haven't actually lost service yet which was my threshold for keep vs. return. I have Wifi calling so as long as my cellular service works at home with Wifi off and data works too it meets my threshold. I'm only getting about 8mbit down over cellular with my signal at home, but that's comparable to what I got with slightly better reception on the X with the slower modem.

Initial conclusions:
- Field test data compared with iPhone X matches expected results - it's slightly worse, but unless you were already at the very bottom of the threshold it's probably not enough to take your signal away.

I'll follow up next week with how things are the first few days, how signal strength compares when I'm at work since I have multiple field test measurements there, and whether I've decided to keep it or not. I'm nervous about being at the very bottom of the reception limit but so far it's holding stable.

Are you using a certain app to take these measurements? A website?
[automerge]1569030513[/automerge]

To be fair, last night I went to a restaurant where I knew my Xs Max failed all the time to keep a connection. Took the X instead, and it failed just like the Xs Max. Both would show 1 to 2 bars at most, and neither would connect.

And how did your 11 pro do?

 

[Packers1958]

Are you using a certain app to take these measurements? A website?
[automerge]1569030513[/automerge]

And how did your 11 pro do?

I didn't have the 11 Pro last night to test. Just got it today.

 

[Tofupunch]

I didn't have the 11 Pro last night to test. Just got it today.

You wouldn’t happen to want to go back to the same restaurant again tonight, would you? 😉