Anti-Surveillance Coalition That Includes Apple Condemns Proposals for Device Backdoors

[pubwvj]

It surprises me that GreyKey continues to function.
Once Apple knows about it they can simply block it.
That is how the arms race goes.
Evolution works.

 

[jayducharme]

Armed with that information, Apple would send highly trusted employees into the vault where they could use the private key to unlock the PIN.

LOL! Yeah, like absolutely nothing could go wrong with THAT scenario!

If just one person besides the device owner knows how to get into the device, then pretty much anyone can get into it. I agree with those who say there are no degrees of encryption; a device either is encrypted or it isn't.

 

[TheTruth101]

People are getting more retarded every time. If you do not want your information leaked... do not put it on electronic devices!!! DUHHHHHHHH You do not have to put pictures and stuff on Facebook. You do not need to have your bank account in your emails and stuff.

I mean, people are really mentally challenged these days!

 

[Jetfire]

Heck, Apple and the others have enough trouble plugging the holes they don't know about. Why would they want to add one that everyone would know about. Microsoft chief technical Ray Ozzie's idea might work in a perfect world. But then if it was a perfect world, we wouldn't need it. And if you really want to screw it up, then get the government involved.

 

[fermat-au]

This is partly why one pays $1k for an iphone.

This isn't only about Apple, they are one of many companies that are part of this coalition, along with Google, Microsoft, Facebook and others. Also I would hope that Apple would have the same commitment to privacy and encryption for a user who buys an iPhone X for $1000, as they would for a user who buys a cheaper iPhone.

 

[AtomicGrog]

Surprised this device is even legal, akin to automated hacker at his desk...

As for the underlying challenge, I believe if there's a law that depicts government (or any other legal/regulatory body) should be given access to contained data then the manufacturing companies should comply by by supplying a capability and demonstrating compliance on demand, it's not a case of wanting too comply or not for any ethical/political/personal etc. reason.

 

[MacSince1985]

And even IF Apple managed to develop a backdoor that doesn't weaken security, China, Russia and every other authoritarian country will require the keys to that door or block Apple from selling their device in the country.

 

[Sam Luis Obispo]

What a bunch of bollocks. Try running encrypted communication service based in US and you will see it yourself that whole backdoor policy is already very well implemented. Just ask Lavabit guy.

Wasn't he the guy who ran the email service that Snowden used? When the government demanded ALL of the keys, he gave them a printed hardcopy (5 point font)?

 

[fairuz]

Surprised this device is even legal, akin to automated hacker at his desk...

As for the underlying challenge, I believe if there's a law that depicts government (or any other legal/regulatory body) should be given access to contained data then the manufacturing companies should comply by by supplying a capability and demonstrating compliance on demand, it's not a case of wanting too comply or not for any ethical/political/personal etc. reason.

IDK if it's legal, but law enforcement would be exempt. I know my box that removes HDCP encryption is illegal... and no, I'm not using it for piracy, just trying to use my stupid Apple TV with an older screen.
[doublepost=1525313347][/doublepost]

People are getting more retarded every time. If you do not want your information leaked... do not put it on electronic devices!!! DUHHHHHHHH You do not have to put pictures and stuff on Facebook. You do not need to have your bank account in your emails and stuff.

I mean, people are really mentally challenged these days!

Is it that retarded to want to use Venmo instead of being that annoying dude who takes cash only?

 

[Mr. Heckles]

That GrayKey password cracking box is tiny. Looks like a Mac mini. As I recall, it can crack a 6 digit password in a few days. Who needs a back door?
In case anyone chimes in saying to use a 10 digit passcode with Touch ID or face Id disabled- just try using your phone for a day with an alphanumeric 10 digit passcode. I guarantee you'll want to throw your iPhone in the trash. Too much trouble.

Mine is 15 alphanumeric long. I only type it in every few days or when I restart my phone. Not that big of a deal.

 

[SeattleMoose]

Its actually pretty smart if you are a government that want to be in control of everything, think Venezuela, etc. In fact it is so important that history has shown it is one of the very first things done by dictators/rulers/kings when they take over over.

Reading sealed notes being sent from the castle was important. They did not have smart phones, but the strategy is the same. Dictators cannot exist when the people have secret communications.

Ever wonder why America is as fixated on this as China and Russia? Government transparency and personal privacy are both anathema to the ruling elite in all countries. If we don't fight for both, then we will have no freedoms. Our American Founding Fathers knew this.

Mr. Benjamin Franklin agrees - "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

 

[Tech198]

I guess a public > private key like PGP-type system would work, but that would mean each device would need their own unique one as no two could be the same.

Apple could give this this, then, un-encrypted data to governments, but they would still face a road block under "certain conditions"

Something tells me, that's what what they actually want.

We have 'exceptions" in law for just about everything but privacy, the one thing that would be most useful, and we lock it down in a box with a random generated key.

You'd think these "other ways" to unlock phones via Cellebrite or (other type hackers.) would be enough, but governments just want it all.

 

[fairuz]

I don't care about my privacy. But I still don't want any backdoors. Security matters, and hackers find a way.
[doublepost=1525316161][/doublepost]

What a bunch of bollocks. Try running encrypted communication service based in US and you will see it yourself that whole backdoor policy is already very well implemented. Just ask Lavabit guy.

Have you tried running an encrypted communication service in the US?

 

[vvswarup]

Explain why not.

The government has the power to seize property that's evidence for a criminal investigation. The government doesn't have the right to issue orders willy nilly conscripting private entities to do things our government is supposed to do using the tax dollars we pay and the powers we grant to the government, especially when said private entity is an unrelated third party.

With a court order, the government is free to seize someone's iPhone. The government is free to use our tax dollars and hire a computer scientist to break encryption. That's not good enough though for the government. The government is demanding the power to conscript Apple, an unrelated private party, to develop measures to defeat its own encryption. Worse yet, the government is also demanding that Apple weaken its encryption on the off chance that police may want in.

 

[npmacuser5]

Backdoor’s not a good idea. However, laws need periodic re-evaluation as our society changes. May need larger sticks with those who refuse to follow legally binding court orders. Complete annominity, Anarchy not an option in our society.

 

[-BigMac-]

Weakened security weakens the function of a secure device.

While we're at it, lets have a law that weakens the computing power of computers.
[doublepost=1525319014][/doublepost]

Mine is 15 alphanumeric long. I only type it in every few days or when I restart my phone. Not that big of a deal.

Expecting the FBI to get a hold of your device?

 

[Brandhouse]

I don't get it. Microsoft are part of the same group that Apple are a part of saying a loud, "No!" to any weakening of a user's security and privacy, yet there's twit from Microsoft called for a private key for each user to be held by a company so government bodies can get access?

What the hell?!

 

[asiga]

So, this “anti-surveillance” people are only worried about what the police can do when fighting crime. Great. They don’t care about surveillance from Facebook, Google, Apple, etc...

When they help us to use technology in a way that no single bit of our data goes to any company in the world, they will do a good service to all of us. Otherwise, please disappear or help police do their work.

 

[dragje]

Explain why not.

Several reasons. First, if you build a backdoor it will open that door to other people. There is no such thing as a guarantee that others wont make use of such hole in the security of the device.
Second, one can’t trust the government in this context since governments never last, one current government “could” respect the privacy of innocents but no one can guarantee that the next “chosen” administration or government will do the same, but a backdoor doesn’t disappear..
Third, and i.m.h.o the most significant one: It doesn’t work. Backdoors doesn’t withold criminals or terrorist to stop being criminals or terrorist. The same counts for the dead penalty, it simply doesn’t work to bring down crime; fact.

So, to put all things in perspective, it’s simply silly to build in a backdoor.

 

[asiga]

People are getting more retarded every time. If you do not want your information leaked... do not put it on electronic devices!!! DUHHHHHHHH You do not have to put pictures and stuff on Facebook. You do not need to have your bank account in your emails and stuff.

Sure. And I suppose you don’t have to use Google, nor any maps app, nor any webmail, nor any cloud service, nor shazam, nor any app that can “call home” (and you don’t have any means for checking that), nor almost any of your device functionality. And this “anti-surveillance” team says what? I’m with the government in this, because this “coalition” should be helping to provide us total privacy, but they only care about privacy against the government. They are not trustworthy.

 

[Mr. Heckles]

Weakened security weakens the function of a secure device.

While we're at it, lets have a law that weakens the computing power of computers.
[doublepost=1525319014][/doublepost]
Expecting the FBI to get a hold of your device?

Better be safe than sorry.

 

[CarpalMac]

Because it compromises the privacy of everyone, not just lawbreakers.

You’re only as strong as your weakest link, and the government wants to force a weak link onto a chain.

And it's not difficult to see why that is a very bad thing.

Just look at the recent actions of Russia and Iran - and that is the just the stuff we have actually heard about. Imagine what goes on behind the closed doors of various governments.

 

[Jim Lahey]

Meanwhile the US is trying to prevent the sale of Chinese devices because of suspected government backdoors.

(I do however fully support encryption)

 

[Flight Plan]

Silly! Privacy is for chumps. Where there is a will and money the will always be a way. Right now, the US Government is the wealthiest entity on the globe.

The US is in debt up to its ears. I'll bet the Catholic Church has more actual money.

 

[chucker23n1]

It surprises me that GreyKey continues to function.
Once Apple knows about it they can simply block it.
That is how the arms race goes.
Evolution works.

Apple knows it exists. They may not know yet how it works.

Or they may know how it works, but not yet how to fix it.

Or they may know how to fix it, but it can’t be done in software, and we have to wait for a new generation of iPhones.

People are getting more retarded every time. If you do not want your information leaked... do not put it on electronic devices!!! DUHHHHHHHH You do not have to put pictures and stuff on Facebook. You do not need to have your bank account in your emails and stuff.

I mean, people are really mentally challenged these days!

Your friends must really love the cavalier attitude you’re showing about their data.

Or are you saying you don’t do any phone calls, messages, e-mails, payments, appointments, birthday greetings, no nothing at all? Yeah, I didn’t think so. It’d quite a pricey paperweight at that point.

I don't get it. Microsoft are part of the same group that Apple are a part of saying a loud, "No!" to any weakening of a user's security and privacy, yet there's twit from Microsoft called for a private key for each user to be held by a company so government bodies can get access?

What the hell?!

Ozzie was only briefly at MS (he’s better known for his Lotus tenure), and has left long ago. He doesng represent their views at all.