Any Guesses Why Apple Decided not to Include USB 3

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by Bucko, Sep 6, 2010.

  1. Bucko macrumors member

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    #1
    Most PC have them and it's standard on current models. Any information why they didn't include it?
     
  2. Inconsequential macrumors 68000

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    #2
    The intel X58 chipset doesn't have support for it.

    The next gen X68 WILL have it.

    Simple as that.
     
  3. Hellhammer Moderator

    Hellhammer

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    #3
    Source?
     
  4. milo macrumors 604

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    #4
    For me it's not nearly as big a deal as sticking with SATA2 instead of 3. There are single SSD drives that no bus on a mac can keep up with.
     
  5. Hellhammer Moderator

    Hellhammer

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    #5
    SATA 6Gb/s you can easily add via PCIe card but USB 3.0 you can't as OS X does not support USB 3.0 as of yet.
     
  6. nanofrog macrumors G4

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    #6
    Actually, it's not the X58/5520 (SP and DP chipsets respectively), but the I/O Controller Hub (ICH) that contains the SATA, USB, and Ethernet controllers (attaches to the chipset). And the current ICH10 has been out for a couple of years now (ICH10 = Q3 2008 which is the one the MP uses, and the ICH10R = Q4 2008).
     
  7. nanofrog macrumors G4

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    #8
    I'd avoid CalDigit's products, as their others aren't that great (tend to release too soon = early users are guinea pigs), they make promises they don't deliver on, and the support is pulled suddenly (and too early).

    This is even the case with their RAID products.

    BTW, there's an entire thread on this, and the information is covered in others as well.
     
  8. kxfrog macrumors regular

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  9. snberk103 macrumors 603

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    #10
    Because USB 3 is, near as I understand, actually a different protocol than USB2. However, they have piggybacked the USB3 connectors (and wires) into the USB2 cable by using two different plugs in one connector. Depending on which USB standard the device supports only the USB2 or the USB3 wires will actually connect.

    To the consumer it will appear that USB2 and USB3 plugs are the same.... but in fact they are very different .... and... most importantly makes it easy to use a USB2 cable to connect to a USB3 device. This creates complications and confusion.... and as we know Apple likes things simple.

    IMO, Apple is avoiding the mess of USB3 (for regular consumers) and waiting for Light Peak. Light Peak, if implemented as designed, will allow a single type of cable to connect everything. Ethernet, video, audio, external HDs, keyboards and mice, speakers.... everything. You take your peripheral, take up to 100 ft of cable, plug one end into the device and the other end into any d*mn available port you want. No more trying to fit the USB cord into the FW port, the telephone cord into the ethernet port, etc etc. because you're on your knees, reaching around the back of the tower under the desk, trying to feel with your fingers where to plug the end of the cable.

    Stay tuned. Probably announced next spring.
     
  10. Inconsequential macrumors 68000

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    #11
    Well yes, I was mearly saying that ICH11 or whatever it is will be coming with X68 :p
     
  11. 7racer macrumors regular

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    #12
    wow first I heard of this. Here's hoping it will be implemented!
     
  12. ovrlrd macrumors 65816

    ovrlrd

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    #13
    Light Peak is awesome, I think the most exciting thing is the use of ClearCurve cabling which means you can bend it all you want and not have to worry about optical data loss. The problem with Light Peak is there is a lot of development hurdles that Intel still has to get past for it to be released. I think they are close to finishing it, but even still it doesn't seem likely that it will be in the hands of consumers for another 2 years at the current rate. I would love for it to come out sooner, but it's just taking them forever to finalize it, and once that is done making products doesn't exactly happen over night.
     
  13. Aaron.M.Swope macrumors newbie

    Aaron.M.Swope

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    #14
    That is incorrect. most PC's don't have it, because intel does NOT support USB 3.0, and will not support it till late 2011- 2012. This is rumored to be true because USB 3.0 will be a direct computer to intel's lightpeak which according top intel will start to be seen in consumer computers by the end of this year. but I am not holding my breath.
     
  14. adder7712 macrumors 68000

    adder7712

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  15. Aaron.M.Swope macrumors newbie

    Aaron.M.Swope

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    #16
    Intel did a demonstration with a modified USB cable, though I would expect a similar design will be implemented. Lightpeak was demonstrated using a Mac Pro motherboard, and is rumored that apple will get lightpeak before everybody else, so I have my money on New mac Pros next summer with Sandy Bridge, and lightpeak
     
  16. Chozo macrumors member

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    #17
    Ethernet? I don't think so. It is supposed to replace a lot of interfaces, even HDMI (eventually) but I have never heard Ethernet.

    Let's worry about getting fiber optic connections to your modem before worrying about it from your modem to your computer.
     
  17. nanofrog macrumors G4

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    #18
    There are some technical issues with current USB 3.0 chips, but it's most likely to do with costs.

    It would have meant an additional semiconductor, which means more money and work (PCB would need to be reworked to accomodate it, and it would have affected the lane configurations as well). Remember, the Tick Tock cycle is designed so that the same board (socket, chipset, and ICH) can work for 2 CPU generations by means of a firmware update (no hardware changes are necessary).

    There's also the small issue that USB 3.0 is technically capable of exceeding the 500MB/s per lane on PCIe Gen. 2.0 standard (though realistic throughput is only about 400MB/s due to latency under ideal conditions = no bandwidth limitations between the USB 3.0 controller and PCIe lane configuration).

    2009 boards were designed in a 16 + 16 + 4 configuration where the 4x lanes are shared via a PCIe switch for Slots 3 and 4. So to dedicate a lane per USB 3.0 port, the slots would have had to be reconfigured, though the PCIe switch could be eliminated if they had.

    Intel has stalled USB 3.0 implementation in their parts to allow Light Peak a chance of gaining traction in the market, which means those not willing to add the separate semiconductors to their products (cheaper to stick with Intel's parts only), will wait. Exactly what Intel's hoping for, so they can get LP's parts into full production and into distribution channels.

    But if a user needs USB 3.0, there is the possibility of adding a 3rd party PCIe card (CalDigit has one out, but I wouldn't trust their offering and wait for another vendor to create drivers for OS X and release a product usable in a MP).

    I will, though I'm not sure if they'll stick with that naming scheme.

    Given Intel's statement of "2012", it could mean the back end of the year, not beginning. Which means USB 3.0 may not be available for the consumer models of Sandy Bridge (LGA1155 parts). This seems likely to me from available information, and won't possibly surface until the LGA2011 parts ship and show up in systems (released for distribution in Q3/4 2011 <EP and EN parts releasing in different quarters>, and systems more likely to show in early 2012 due to final validation and assembly testing).
     
  18. BornAgainMac macrumors 603

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    #19
    I hope Light Peak is the new standard cable for 2012. I would rather USB 3.0 just die since it took so long and a bag of hurt anyways. USB 2.0 and Firewire 800 have served well in the meantime.
     
  19. Aaron.M.Swope macrumors newbie

    Aaron.M.Swope

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    #20
    I agree, USB 3.0 really isn't that impressive, lightpeak is, I think that lightpeak will be the end of USB end of story
     
  20. GoCubsGo macrumors Nehalem

    GoCubsGo

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    #21
    Is USB 3.0 even ready to go standard? Either way, steveo doesn't think you need it and therefore you don't get it.
     
  21. Honumaui macrumors 6502a

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    Apr 18, 2008
    #22
    curious for those dying for USB3 ? why ?

    my wacom wont run better ? my other things wont be any better
    I can use FW for card readers and external storage is SATA

    I can see maybe a camera or phone sync but that is not going to work till that device does ?

    I just dont get the hype of wanting something that has little use for most people when USB is working for most things you hook up with USB ?
     
  22. GoCubsGo macrumors Nehalem

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    #23
    Because people think they need it.
     
  23. milo macrumors 604

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    #24
    Yeah, but selling a $5k machine that skimps on something as basic as the hard drive connections is pretty pathetic. A machine like that should include it and not require using up a pci slot.
     
  24. MikhailT macrumors 601

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    #25
    Mainly for speed and much better power management (including the ability to charge more power-hungry devices without power supplies).

    Most external drives are USB only, eSATA isn't the standard on basic cheap external drives either and Macbooks [Pro] do not have eSATA support. The expresscard/eSATA is horrible on the Macbooks [Pro].

    The difference between USB 2/3 is huge, we're talking about the difference between 20MBps and 100MBps+ for typical 7200RPM hard drives and much faster with RAID0 support.

    As for the reason for no USB 3.0 support is because Intel has decided to slow down the upgrade path to USB 3.0 and wants to give time for LightPeek instead. Apple didn't "decide" anything, they just have no choice.
     

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