Any Guesses Why Apple Decided not to Include USB 3

[nanofrog]

Not going to happen, Intel has already stated it won’t happen until 2012. Apple WILL move to USB 3.0 soon.

If you look at their recent history, Apple tends to use what's included in the I/O Controller Hub (ICH = single chip that contains SATA, USB, and Ethernet controllers). Yes they use a separate chip to provide FW ports, but other than that, they stick with what comes in the ICH (they're cheap).

To get USB 3.0 earlier, they'd have had to include a 3rd party chip (to have gotten it in the 2010 systems; to do it, they'd have had to do a redesign on the boards) which they didn't do. At this point, there won't be a new system until the Xeon versions of Sandy Bridge release (Socket R = LGA2011 parts), even if they did decide to use a 3rd party chip (USB 3.0 won't be in the ICH that releases with that series of CPU's; too soon, and it could compromise the adoption of LightPeak, which is why they delayed it in the first place).

 

[ActionableMango]

Maybe a stupid question, but...

...LightPeak doesn't carry any power, right? So no bus-powered external drives. Everything would need batteries or worse, an AC/DC wall wart. Even wired devices like keyboards and mice would need to start using batteries. Thumbdrives, memory readers, etc., would be impractical. If you have to have batteries anyway, you might as well be BT and wireless. I don't see any practical purpose for many of the devices mentioned in this thread to be on LightPeak.

I don't think LightPeak will replace USB/FW until power is carried along side the optical cable.

 

[diazj3]

...LightPeak doesn't carry any power, right? So no bus-powered external drives. Everything would need batteries or worse, an AC/DC wall wart. Even wired devices like keyboards and mice would need to start using batteries. Thumbdrives, memory readers, etc., would be impractical.

I don't think LightPeak will replace USB/FW until power is carried along side the optical cable.

Of course not... plus, what would be the point in hooking your mouse, keyboard and such simple peripherals via lightpeak? specially when they dont require such bandwidth, and there are simpler, less expensive solutions (USB, bluetooth) for them.

My guess is that lightpeak would be implemented for devices that would take advantage from it, without necessarily replacing all other protocols. On the power issue... you never know, perhaps they decide to run a power cable along the fiber optic to power some portable devices... but it's still too early to tell.

 

[Hellhammer]

Intel has said they are working on power over LP. They may add a copper wire alongside the optical fibre so it could power devices.

 

[Sun Baked]

If you look at their recent history, Apple tends to use what's included in the I/O Controller Hub (ICH = single chip that contains SATA, USB, and Ethernet controllers). Yes they use a separate chip to provide FW ports, but other than that, they stick with what comes in the ICH (they're cheap).

To get USB 3.0 earlier, they'd have had to include a 3rd party chip (to have gotten it in the 2010 systems; to do it, they'd have had to do a redesign on the boards) which they didn't do. At this point, there won't be a new system until the Xeon versions of Sandy Bridge release (Socket R = LGA2011 parts), even if they did decide to use a 3rd party chip (USB 3.0 won't be in the ICH that releases with that series of CPU's; too soon, and it could compromise the adoption of LightPeak, which is why they delayed it in the first place).

Looking more like Intel will include USB3.0 support in Sandy Bridge, might have been there all the time like the wireless pre-N supported stuff we had in the past, with Intel staying quiet this round until later in the process.

 

[nanofrog]

Looking more like Intel will include USB3.0 support in Sandy Bridge, might have been there all the time like the wireless pre-N supported stuff we had in the past, with Intel staying quiet this round until later in the process.

I think they'll be playing dates this time around. That is, there won't be USB 3.0 support when Sandy Bridge first ships (LGA1155 parts = consumer models), but will once the enterprise/enthusiast parts release (LGA2011).

At that point, they'll release a new I/O Controller Hub to accompany the new CPU's and accompanying chipset in a simultaneous release. Based on my understanding of the available roadmap data that's been released and desire to stall USB 3.0 successfully before LP's debut anyway.

 

[Hellhammer]

I think they'll be playing dates this time around. That is, there won't be USB 3.0 support when Sandy Bridge first ships (LGA1155 parts = consumer models), but will once the enterprise/enthusiast parts release (LGA2011).

At that point, they'll release a new I/O Controller Hub to accompany the new CPU's and accompanying chipset in a simultaneous release. Based on my understanding of the available roadmap data that's been released and desire to stall USB 3.0 successfully before LP's debut anyway.

Fudzilla begs to differ. They are talking about a laptop which means it's LGA 1155 chipset.

 

[nanofrog]

Fudzilla begs to differ. They are talking about a laptop which means it's LGA 1155 chipset.

We'll have to wait and see.

There's a lot of missing information in that article (rather common with Fudzilla's articles from what I've noticed), such as is the rest of the hardware there or not (i.e. the new port).

If it comes out early (based on previously available information), great.

But I don't see them backtracking on LP before USB 3.0 unless they've suddenly had a breakthrough (will be able to get those parts available really soon; as in LP cards available before the first LGA1155 systems ship), or had a technical problem that will prevent LP from getting parts into the distribution channels on time (thus purposely holding off on USB 3.0 a major mistake).

 

[Hellhammer]

We'll have to wait and see.

There's a lot of missing information in that article (rather common with Fudzilla's articles from what I've noticed), such as is the rest of the hardware there or not (i.e. the new port).

True. Fudzilla hasn't shown any concrete evidence like an image of that laptop. On the other hand, the release is so close and they gave a good explanation why Intel has been quiet about USB 3.0, thus it should have some proofs behind it. At least we have hope now

But I don't see them backtracking on LP before USB 3.0 unless they've suddenly had a breakthrough (will be able to get those parts available really soon; as in LP cards available before the first LGA1155 systems ship), or had a technical problem that will prevent LP from getting parts into the distribution channels on time (thus purposely holding off on USB 3.0 a major mistake).

Intel pushed Light Peak to 2012 if I recall correctly.

 

[jjahshik32]

Because Apple dont play that way.

 

[Sun Baked]

I think they'll be playing dates this time around. That is, there won't be USB 3.0 support when Sandy Bridge first ships (LGA1155 parts = consumer models), but will once the enterprise/enthusiast parts release (LGA2011).

At that point, they'll release a new I/O Controller Hub to accompany the new CPU's and accompanying chipset in a simultaneous release. Based on my understanding of the available roadmap data that's been released and desire to stall USB 3.0 successfully before LP's debut anyway.

Looked more like the pre-USB3.0 final spec chip hardware is there in the ICH, if anything it'll be updated via firmware and software patches like the pre-N wireless stuff was.

Seems more like Intel was playing it safe if there were major problems and they had to default to running the new USB3 silicon as USB2 until they updated the ICH in the next incremental update.

Seems like Intel is reasonably sure that it'll work 100% (or close enough) to announce it will be supported when Sandy Bridge ships.

 

[nanofrog]

Intel pushed Light Peak to 2012 if I recall correctly.

I only recall seeing this in referrence to USB 3.0, not LP.

Looked more like the pre-USB3.0 final spec chip hardware is there in the ICH, if anything it'll be updated via firmware and software patches like the pre-N wireless stuff was.

This is possible, but I wasn't under the impression they were going to release a new ICH in time for the LGA1155 parts (contains the SATA, USB, and Ethernet controllers). Rather that it was to release with the LGA2011 parts instead.

Seems more like Intel was playing it safe if there were major problems and they had to default to running the new USB3 silicon as USB2 until they updated the ICH in the next incremental update.

Seems like Intel is reasonably sure that it'll work 100% (or close enough) to announce it will be supported when Sandy Bridge ships.

Your premise is sound. I was just under the impression that the new ICH wouldn't be released with the LGA1155 parts, going by Intel's statements (seemed reasonable to hold the new ICH until after LP parts were actually available in distribution channels, which is supposed to be the tail end of this year - haven't seen any information this has been delayed).

But on the assumption there has been a delay with LP, then getting the new ICH out with the LGA1155 parts would make sense (SATA 3 and USB 3.0 would be attractive = helps to sell systems in a tight economy IMO).

 

[Hellhammer]

I only recall seeing this in referrence to USB 3.0, not LP.

http://www.guru3d.com/news/intel-light-peak-arrives-in-2012/

They announced that in IDF.

Oh, and get your quoting right

 

[nanofrog]

http://www.guru3d.com/news/intel-light-peak-arrives-in-2012/

They announced that in IDF.

Then it's been pushed back, as IDF 2009 had the release set a year earlier (parts in the distribution channel in late 2010).

 

[Hellhammer]

Then it's been pushed back, as IDF 2009 had the release set a year earlier (parts in the distribution channel in late 2010).

And in IDF 2011 it will be pushed to 2013

 

[nanofrog]

And in IDF 2011 it will be pushed to 2013

Hold your tongue.

 

[snberk103]

...LightPeak doesn't carry any power, right? So no bus-powered external drives. Everything would need batteries or worse, an AC/DC wall wart. Even wired devices like keyboards and mice would need to start using batteries. Thumbdrives, memory readers, etc., would be impractical. If you have to have batteries anyway, you might as well be BT and wireless. I don't see any practical purpose for many of the devices mentioned in this thread to be on LightPeak.

I don't think LightPeak will replace USB/FW until power is carried along side the optical cable.

Of course not... plus, what would be the point in hooking your mouse, keyboard and such simple peripherals via lightpeak? specially when they dont require such bandwidth, and there are simpler, less expensive solutions (USB, bluetooth) for them.

My guess is that lightpeak would be implemented for devices that would take advantage from it, without necessarily replacing all other protocols. On the power issue... you never know, perhaps they decide to run a power cable along the fiber optic to power some portable devices... but it's still too early to tell.

The Intel page on Light Peak does actually mention that it will carry power, so all those external devices will still work without a wall wart.

The point of keyboards and mice using LP is not the bandwidth needed, but the standardization on one single type of plug. No more trying to fit a FW plug into a USB plug 'cause you're reaching around the back in a dim corner. Trying to tell by touch which 'holes' in the back of your iMac or monitor you need to use for your keyboard.

 

[jjahshik32]

Because Apple will include USB 3.0 in Sandy Bridge.