Anybody getting eye strain on M1 MacBook Air?

[TDDM]

Just wanted to give a very positive update in case it helps anyone who has similar issues:

I've had issues with Macs, iPhones, iPads, etc due to flickering for the past 3-4 years. Absolutely nothing I tried ever helped, until I recently tried occlusion therapy about a month ago (Basically, wearing an eyepatch on one eye for a few hours a day). Like I mentioned in an earlier post, I was able to use these problematic devices for much longer periods of time with less symptoms as long as I was covering my right eye. I had some relief by covering my left eye, but covering the right was much more relaxing.

I scheduled an appointment with my optometrist last week, and based on my success with the eyepatch, he recommended a more thorough eye exam. Through this, I found out that I actually have two separate misalignments with my eyes (One vertical AND horizontal), none of my other optometrists caught this (I've seen at least 4 at this point). I just got an updated prescription that accounted for the misalignments, and I've noticed a massive reduction in symptoms from flickering screens while wearing these glasses. It's not 100% fixed, but I'm hoping it'll get there as I adjust to the new lenses.

If you have trouble with flickering screens (iPads, iPhones, Macs, etc), I would highly recommend trying an eyepatch while using flickering screens to see if you notice any improvement in your symptoms. If you do, consider speaking with an optometrist and getting checked for any eye misalignments that can be fixed by prism, because you *may* have an undiagnosed binocular vision disorder that's being exacerbated by flickering screens.

By the way, in terms of cost: All I did was schedule a normal optometrist appointment ($75) and get new lenses ($150), I didn't need any crazy expensive exams, treatments, or anything like that.

I'm really thankful to finally have some kind of relief from this ridiculous problem, I hope this helps anyone in a similar situation.

 

[tongmu603]

Just wanted to give a very positive update in case it helps anyone who has similar issues:

I've had issues with Macs, iPhones, iPads, etc due to flickering for the past 3-4 years. Absolutely nothing I tried ever helped, until I recently tried occlusion therapy about a month ago (Basically, wearing an eyepatch on one eye for a few hours a day). Like I mentioned in an earlier post, I was able to use these problematic devices for much longer periods of time with less symptoms as long as I was covering my right eye. I had some relief by covering my left eye, but covering the right was much more relaxing.

I scheduled an appointment with my optometrist last week, and based on my success with the eyepatch, he recommended a more thorough eye exam. Through this, I found out that I actually have two separate misalignments with my eyes (One vertical AND horizontal), none of my other optometrists caught this (I've seen at least 4 at this point). I just got an updated prescription that accounted for the misalignments, and I've noticed a massive reduction in symptoms from flickering screens while wearing these glasses. It's not 100% fixed, but I'm hoping it'll get there as I adjust to the new lenses.

If you have trouble with flickering screens (iPads, iPhones, Macs, etc), I would highly recommend trying an eyepatch while using flickering screens to see if you notice any improvement in your symptoms. If you do, consider speaking with an optometrist and getting checked for any eye misalignments that can be fixed by prism, because you *may* have an undiagnosed binocular vision disorder that's being exacerbated by flickering screens.

By the way, in terms of cost: All I did was schedule a normal optometrist appointment ($75) and get new lenses ($150), I didn't need any crazy expensive exams, treatments, or anything like that.

I'm really thankful to finally have some kind of relief from this ridiculous problem, I hope this helps anyone in a similar situation.

Hi i think i saw your post on ledstrain. this is great news. I just bought a MBP M1 (2020) and had terrible eye strain from it. And I never had trouble with 2018 and 2015 macbook pro. Will see a doctor if I have time. thank you.

 

[notegone]

My 2020 M1 MacBook Air doesn't cause headaches or eyestrain or dry eyes for me (as might lower frequency PWM), but it does somehow cause _rapid nearsightedness_ / increased myopia, like my vision becomes worse by at least a quarter diopter and stays that way for a few days. I was unaware of this when I first started using one, and had to get a new prescription shortly afterwards. I can now reproduce this reliably by looking at the screen for just 5-10 minutes. That's my personal experience with 117 kHz PWM.

 

[TDDM]

Hi i think i saw your post on ledstrain. this is great news. I just bought a MBP M1 (2020) and had terrible eye strain from it. And I never had trouble with 2018 and 2015 macbook pro. Will see a doctor if I have time. thank you.

Have you tried using an eyepatch to see if you get any relief from it?

My 2020 M1 MacBook Air doesn't cause headaches or eyestrain or dry eyes for me (as might lower frequency PWM), but it does somehow cause _rapid nearsightedness_ / increased myopia, like my vision becomes worse by at least a quarter diopter and stays that way for a few days. I was unaware of this when I first started using one, and had to get a new prescription shortly afterwards. I can now reproduce this reliably by looking at the screen for just 5-10 minutes. That's my personal experience with 117 kHz PWM.

I'd definitely recommend talking with an optometrist about this. Have you had an eye exam where you were tested for prism correction?

 

[asus389]

Just wanted to give a very positive update in case it helps anyone who has similar issues:

I've had issues with Macs, iPhones, iPads, etc due to flickering for the past 3-4 years. Absolutely nothing I tried ever helped, until I recently tried occlusion therapy about a month ago (Basically, wearing an eyepatch on one eye for a few hours a day). Like I mentioned in an earlier post, I was able to use these problematic devices for much longer periods of time with less symptoms as long as I was covering my right eye. I had some relief by covering my left eye, but covering the right was much more relaxing.

I scheduled an appointment with my optometrist last week, and based on my success with the eyepatch, he recommended a more thorough eye exam. Through this, I found out that I actually have two separate misalignments with my eyes (One vertical AND horizontal), none of my other optometrists caught this (I've seen at least 4 at this point). I just got an updated prescription that accounted for the misalignments, and I've noticed a massive reduction in symptoms from flickering screens while wearing these glasses. It's not 100% fixed, but I'm hoping it'll get there as I adjust to the new lenses.

If you have trouble with flickering screens (iPads, iPhones, Macs, etc), I would highly recommend trying an eyepatch while using flickering screens to see if you notice any improvement in your symptoms. If you do, consider speaking with an optometrist and getting checked for any eye misalignments that can be fixed by prism, because you *may* have an undiagnosed binocular vision disorder that's being exacerbated by flickering screens.

By the way, in terms of cost: All I did was schedule a normal optometrist appointment ($75) and get new lenses ($150), I didn't need any crazy expensive exams, treatments, or anything like that.

I'm really thankful to finally have some kind of relief from this ridiculous problem, I hope this helps anyone in a similar situation.

I'm curious, did they add prism lenses to your glasses? What was the recommended solution? I too have noticed that my right eye has issues with convergence. I tried some exercises that helped, but it was pretty minor and I don't have issues with 90% of screens or "real life vision" so I was advised not to add prism lenses at the time. Maybe I should revisit?

 

[TDDM]

I'm curious, did they add prism lenses to your glasses? What was the recommended solution? I too have noticed that my right eye has issues with convergence. I tried some exercises that helped, but it was pretty minor and I don't have issues with 90% of screens or "real life vision" so I was advised not to add prism lenses at the time. Maybe I should revisit?

My new prescription is:

OD Sphere +0.50
OS Sphere +0.25

OD H Prism 1.25 BI
OS H Prism 1.25 BI

OD V Prism .075 BD
OS V Prism .075 BU

I have a pretty severe sensitivity to flicker (Can't use any modern iPhones, iPads, MacBooks, OLED TVs, etc), but nearly perfect real life vision. Even so, it was worth it to me to get lenses because it was getting really frustrating not being able to use most screens. My recommendation would definitely be to revisit the prism issue if you're still having issues with flicker.

 

[ghanwani]

I started having some problems with my 2019 Intel MBA and decided to trade it in for an M1 MBA hoping I wouldn't have headaches. Unfortunately, it has turned out to not be the case; i.e. I am having headaches. I turned off auto brightness, true tone, and battery dimming. Initially, I didn't have headaches. But now after a week of using it, I have started having them. The only way to deal with it appears to be limiting screen time.

Is there anything else I can do beyond the 3 in bold above?

For those of you that have faced this problem, is there another Mac in the apple lineup that they are currently selling that works for you? If not, is there an iPad that works?

Since I traded the old machine in, going back to that is not an option. I didn't want to entertain that anyway because it had gotten too slow for my needs.

 

[asus389]

My new prescription is:

OD Sphere +0.50
OS Sphere +0.25

OD H Prism 1.25 BI
OS H Prism 1.25 BI

OD V Prism .075 BD
OS V Prism .075 BU

I have a pretty severe sensitivity to flicker (Can't use any modern iPhones, iPads, MacBooks, OLED TVs, etc), but nearly perfect real life vision. Even so, it was worth it to me to get lenses because it was getting really frustrating not being able to use most screens. My recommendation would definitely be to revisit the prism issue if you're still having issues with flicker.

Interesting. My convergence issues seemed to resolve after treating a sinus infection a couple years ago (or so I thought). Maybe I will look at this again.

 

[kAksonov]

For everyone who have problems, try to install SwitchResX and change colors from Billions to Millions. Thats the way to turn off temporal dithering. Helps me a lot on my imac 4k 2019. Still see pixel inversion, but can use it much longer with less eye strain than before.

 

[ghanwani]

For everyone who have problems, try to install SwitchResX and change colors from Billions to Millions. Thats the way to turn off temporal dithering. Helps me a lot on my imac 4k 2019. Still see pixel inversion, but can use it much longer with less eye strain than before.

Interesting. Didn't know about pixel inversion. Is that standard across all devices (i.e. pre temporal dithering) or is that something recent as well?

 

[kAksonov]

Interesting. Didn't know about pixel inversion. Is that standard across all devices (i.e. pre temporal dithering) or is that something recent as well?

Every lcd (ips, tn) display has it. But the visible amount of it is different on every screen. Several years ago tested 4 Dell u2415 and only one of them had not very noticable inversion. Others were one worse than another. With my iMac it's more difficult for me to test because of return policy, so i bought what i bought and believe it's not the best one. Ayear ago i also bought 4 ipads 10 2020 and one of them had really bad pixel inversion which did not allow me to use it at all. Other 3 ipads were pretty similar and very good about inversion, and i am using them without any problems since then.

You can check each your screen with http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/inversion.php

Just do it in native resolution and don't scale the test images. For Macbook on m1 original resolution should be 2560x1600, to double check it you need to click with option key on scale options and select the 2560x1600 resolution.

 

[ghanwani]

Every lcd (ips, tn) display has it. But the visible amount of it is different on every screen. Several years ago tested 4 Dell u2415 and only one of them had not very noticable inversion. Others were one worse than another. With my iMac it's more difficult for me to test because of return policy, so i bought what i bought and believe it's not the best one. Ayear ago i also bought 4 ipads 10 2020 and one of them had really bad pixel inversion which did not allow me to use it at all. Other 3 ipads were pretty similar and very good about inversion, and i am using them without any problems since then.

You can check each your screen with http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/inversion.php

Just do it in native resolution and don't scale the test images. For Macbook on m1 original resolution should be 2560x1600, to double check it you need to click with option key on scale options and select the 2560x1600 resolution.

Compared my M1 MBA side by side with my Dell XPS 13 (about 3 years old) and the MBA is really, really bad.

 

[ghanwani]

After trying a few Windows laptops, wow, the screens are so easy on the eyes--matte displays and no weird dithering.

Also, talking to several colleagues at work many of them say they get headaches with a number of Apple displays (iPhone, iPad, MacBook) but never on Windows (which we use for work).

On most Apple devices, it looks like the edges of letters and lines are moving.

Surely there must be Apple employees facing similar issues that can provide more direct feedback. Or maybe they have never experienced non-Apple devices.

The Windows machines tend to have other problems like loud fan and, well, Windows.

 

[Jclok]

After trying a few Windows laptops, wow, the screens are so easy on the eyes--matte displays and no weird dithering.

Also, talking to several colleagues at work many of them say they get headaches with a number of Apple displays (iPhone, iPad, MacBook) but never on Windows (which we use for work).

On most Apple devices, it looks like the edges of letters and lines are moving.

Surely there must be Apple employees facing similar issues that can provide more direct feedback. Or maybe they have never experienced non-Apple devices.

The Windows machines tend to have other problems like loud fan and, well, Windows.

I got a good chuckle with the Windows jab at the end. I was looking at a surface tablet and didn’t experience the same pain I do with the iPads and iPhones etc…. When my current older iPad dies, this is the new direction it seems. iOS 14.7 can’t last forever.

 

[4419867]

I started having some problems with my 2019 Intel MBA and decided to trade it in for an M1 MBA hoping I wouldn't have headaches. Unfortunately, it has turned out to not be the case; i.e. I am having headaches. I turned off auto brightness, true tone, and battery dimming. Initially, I didn't have headaches. But now after a week of using it, I have started having them. The only way to deal with it appears to be limiting screen time.

Is there anything else I can do beyond the 3 in bold above?

For those of you that have faced this problem, is there another Mac in the apple lineup that they are currently selling that works for you? If not, is there an iPad that works?

Since I traded the old machine in, going back to that is not an option. I didn't want to entertain that anyway because it had gotten too slow for my needs.

According to Notebookcheck, there is no modern MacBook without PWM... However, the new iMac 24 and new iPad Air (5th gen) are flicker-free.

 

[ghanwani]

According to Notebookcheck, there is no modern MacBook without PWM... However, the new iMac 24 and new iPad Air (5th gen) are flicker-free.

Weren’t folks having some other problems with iPad Air displays like blooming or something? I don’t think the problem is due to PWM. I think it’s either temporal dithering or something else.

 

[Aleksid1]

I have very sensitive eyes and I found 3 options that you need to adjust to reduce eye strain. I have Macbook, iMac, iPhone and PC with Dell monitor.

1. Every new Macbook have more bright screen. Reduce screen brightness. If it looks dark, try to reduce brightness in several steps, say every day, reduce brightness a little. Especially when you at home at evenning or at night.

2. Turn off True Tone. Adjust the screen temperature manually. Make it a bit warmer than by default. Set color temperature to 6000K instead of 6500K by default. macOS allows you to calibrate color temperature easily. I create a new color profile in Preferences. For me it greatly reduce eye strain.

3. Fonts are very small in macOS. Set scaled resolution to increase font size in Preferences > Display.

4. Check all your home LED lamps for flickering. Many LED lamps have visible flickering at low frequency (about 50 or 60 Hz). Usually good expensive LED lamps don't flicker. Use your iPhone slow-mo video recording to reveal LED lamps flickering in a shop.

These simple things should help you. I use these advices many years.

 

[Jclok]

While PWM alone may not tell the whole story, I’d be more interested in the frequencies that PWM exists. For instance, my laser projector uses PWM, but I can tolerate it for the most part. I haven’t measured the frequencies yet. The new pro iPhones have flicker in several frequencies under 1000Hz. If you’re anything like me, the sensitive range seems to be under 1000Hz.

As someone else stated, temporal dithering may be troublesome. ALL current apple products use it (maybe not tie studio XDR display since it’s supposed to be 10 bit). Apple loves wide P3 color which is far outside sRGB.

 

[ghanwani]

While PWM alone may not tell the whole story, I’d be more interested in the frequencies that PWM exists. For instance, my laser projector uses PWM, but I can tolerate it for the most part. I haven’t measured the frequencies yet. The new pro iPhones have flicker in several frequencies under 1000Hz. If you’re anything like me, the sensitive range seems to be under 1000Hz.

As someone else stated, temporal dithering may be troublesome. ALL current apple products use it (maybe not tie studio XDR display since it’s supposed to be 10 bit). Apple loves wide P3 color which is far outside sRGB.

I would really appreciate a control to turn off all of their hacks that attempt to make the screen look better than the hardware would allow it to be naturally.

 

[Jclok]

I would really appreciate a control to turn off all of their hacks that attempt to make the screen look better than the hardware would allow it to be naturally.

I totally agree. It’s pretty ridiculous right now. I’m considering a windows laptop from framework. Sources I’ve checked don’t detect any PWM.

 

[macbookairm1]

Hey guys, I was experimenting eye strain as well, couldn't look at the macbook air m1 screen for too long, felt a bit dizzy and had a hard time looking at the screen.
I tried the color profile sRGBIEC61966-2.1 and it seems much better for me.
I was using windows 10 before and had no problem at all. Apparently windows laptops use sRGB too...
Let me know if someone tried changing color profile and if it changed anything...

Also, do you think the different color profiles have different PWM? Or is there a way to turn off the PWM other than increasing brightness to the max?

 

[asus389]

Hey guys, I was experimenting eye strain as well, couldn't look at the macbook air m1 screen for too long, felt a bit dizzy and had a hard time looking at the screen.
I tried the color profile sRGBIEC61966-2.1 and it seems much better for me.
I was using windows 10 before and had no problem at all. Apparently windows laptops use sRGB too...
Let me know if someone tried changing color profile and if it changed anything...

Also, do you think the different color profiles have different PWM? Or is there a way to turn off the PWM other than increasing brightness to the max?

The theory is that forcing it to use sRGB either turns off or reduces temporal dithering. The panels in these laptops are 8 bit. They have to use temporal dithering to achieve 10 bit "wide color" which the default profile uses. The idea is that the flickering from the dithering causes symptoms. But nobody knows for sure.

 

[ghanwani]

The theory is that forcing it to use sRGB either turns off or reduces temporal dithering. The panels in these laptops are 8 bit. They have to use temporal dithering to achieve 10 bit "wide color" which the default profile uses. The idea is that the flickering from the dithering causes symptoms. But nobody knows for sure.

Do you have to reboot for a new selection to take effect or is it immediate? I tried various color profiles and it doesn't seem to do anything for me to reduce headaches.

 

[macbookairm1]

Do you have to reboot for a new selection to take effect or is it immediate? I tried various color profiles and it doesn't seem to do anything for me to reduce headaches.

hello, no it changes the color profile directly, but it is a very subtle change!

 

[Jclok]

hello, no it changes the color profile directly, but it is a very subtle change!

I'm glad to hear that changing to the RGB profile helped. I was curious about that. I truly believe I have an issue with temporal dithering as well as low frequency PWM. I stayed away from newer apple devices simply because they use the P3 color profile across all devices which must use temporal dithering to accomplish.