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dguisinger

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jul 25, 2002
1,100
2,258
So i've talked to Apple several times trying to swap my i9 for an i7.

The problem is, unless i want a 512GB disk and 16GB of RAM they can't accommodate a trade. My return date expires on the 27th, new build to order machines with 1TB and 32GB ram aren't available until something like August 6th now.... and I had sent in my old 2014 macbook for the trade in program so I can no longer switch back. Nobody is willing to to find a way to work it out, so that I can get a new machine, transfer my stuff, and then return the original order.

This whole MacBook deal is really rubbing me the wrong way. They misrepresented the performance of this machine, I really don't give a damn about their return policy, they should be taking care of their customers who bought immediately after the announcement. If they didn't solder everything on in the first place, it wouldn't be so much of an issue, I could upgrade ram or the ssd after market... so its like every single option they offer is another kick in the balls. I'm seriously considering buying my first PC in 15 years since I can overnight a suitable replacement and walk this one into a Apple Store to return it.
 
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dof250

macrumors regular
Jun 3, 2014
220
136
Did you hear about the latest findings regarding the power usage of the CPU's? Maybe the i9 will become the beast it should be. You can check my thread for some details about the tests. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/13-base-and-15-base-model-available-for-testing.2128549/
If you limit the usage of the CPU to 45watt the performance will be much better and more consistent. I'm pretty sure that Apple is going to finetune the settings of these new MacBooks to make them perform better under long heavy load.
 

dguisinger

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jul 25, 2002
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I've seen some reports about tweaking fan settings, etc... but that means Apple released a machine that they either knew couldn't meet its advertised performance, or they are ignorant and don't put their machines through the proper testing.
MacWorld's latest video on the issue says they do not recommend the Macbook Pro i9 at all. It shouldn't be my problem that Apple didn't deliver what they advertised. The fact that Apple cannot coordinate an exchange that takes longer than their return window because they can't ship a new machine quick enough shouldn't be my problem.

Either way, we are only in this position because they are incompetent at thermal engineering. I'm tired of the excuses people make, I've used subpar PCB layout tools to build complex 12 layer PCBs with complex layout requirements by myself in a matter of weeks without Apple's resources. Apple has the money, they have the software and tools. They aren't forced to release machines that don't perform as advertised. They aren't forced to use a mac pro chassis for 5 years that ran out of thermal headroom in a single year. None of this stuff takes "years" to design, it takes a few months with a few engineers. Sure, it takes years to build a custom chip, but Apple isn't relying on that...the T2 isn't whats holding them back. Need more space for cooling? Make a chassis revision on the i9, I doubt anyone would complain about a few more mm thickness to fit proper cooling to get advertised performance on the highest end machines. They've done it in the past... before the thinness inmates took over the asylum...
 

Lobwedgephil

Contributor
Apr 7, 2012
5,750
4,696
You could just have them extend your return date as others have, and order a new one.

Or backup all your data, return the machine, and order a new one. They are shipping ahead of estimates for the most part.
 
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dguisinger

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jul 25, 2002
1,100
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You could just have them extend your return date as others have, and order a new one.

Or backup all your data, return the machine, and order a new one. They are shipping ahead of estimates for the most part.


As stated, I've talked to Apple on the phone several times, they insist there is nothing they can do about extending the return date and that I either have to take a base model that is in stock with 16GB Ram and 512GB HD, return it and go without a computer for work for a week and a half, or keep it the way it is.
 

Nozuka

macrumors 68040
Jul 3, 2012
3,557
6,050
Seriously?

Yes, seriously. This is what their website says about the i9:

Upgrading to the Intel Core i9 processor will take your speeds even higher. The i9 features Thermal Velocity Boost, which enables the CPU to opportunistically turbo up to 4.8GHz when workloads and system thermals allow. At 2.9GHz with a Turbo Boost speed of up to 4.8GHz, it’s designed to handle everything from compiling code to rendering CPU-intensive 3D graphics — all with substantially accelerated compute performance.

Sounds pretty accurate to me
 

dguisinger

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jul 25, 2002
1,100
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If they will not exchange it, just return it and order the i7, or a Windows machine.

Like i said, i use this machine for work, and already shipped my old machine in as part of their recycle buyback program. The issue is their customer service is all "take it or leave it", if i want to continue having a machine to work on, then I either have to settle for the base configuration that is in stock, or move to a windows computer... the customized i7s are on a longer leadtime, with early to mid august delivery.

Yes, seriously. This is what their website says about the i9:



Sounds pretty accurate to me

If the i9 was getting 2.9GHz under load, then sure, you'd have a point. Thanks for proving mine.
 
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Lobwedgephil

Contributor
Apr 7, 2012
5,750
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Says I can order what you want for delivery by July 31st, so you would be out 4 days, but they are beating estimates. I had an estimate of 24th and received it on the 20th.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,717
Like i said, i use this machine for work,
You're hands are more or less tied then. If apple will not extend the return date or exchange the laptop, there's not much you can do. Can you pick up a stock model and live with that?
 

borgranta

macrumors 6502
May 9, 2018
304
96
If you can arrange for an air conditioner vent to chill the laptop it may negate thermal throttling. Additionally I have seen reports that putting it in a freezer will allow it run at its full potential. Laying it on a reusable ice block may also affect thermal throttling. Another option if mobility is not needed may be to exchange it for an iMac Pro which to my knowledge does not run as poorly and can be had with more than 6 cores.
 

dguisinger

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jul 25, 2002
1,100
2,258
Says I can order what you want for delivery by July 31st, so you would be out 4 days, but they are beating estimates. I had an estimate of 24th and received it on the 20th.

I see July 31st now as well, I think it was Aug 2nd earlier... problem is not actually knowing
[doublepost=1532220334][/doublepost]
You're hands are more or less tied then. If apple will not extend the return date or exchange the laptop, there's not much you can do. Can you pick up a stock model and live with that?

Its only worth it if they had a stock model with 1TB and 32GB of ram, outside of the i9, which they don't...again, if they were upgradable once purchased, then it would be no big deal.... I upgraded from a 2014 2.2GHz with a filled up 512GB SSD and 16GB ram. I was running out of headroom on a 4 year old machine and wanted another machine to last 3-4 years. who knows, maybe apple will fix some of the thermal throttling with new fan profiles. The problem is, they aren't saying anything, it took reviewers several days to find and confirm the issue, and the longer I wait, the more I'm stuck with it... if they were to mitigate the thermal throttle down 80% of the time that it is likely to happen, i wouldn't be so bent out of shape over it... But to pay a premium for a machine to last several years, only to find out it has a tendency to throttle down to the base unit's 2.2GHz range, thats just unacceptable...

I just think Apple's customer service should be more responsive, its on them that the machines throttle down that far, its on them that they are a week and a half out on other models, they should find a way to keep a customer happy. I've bought maybe 20 macs in the last 15 years, including several xserves and other pro machines... its just the year over year of not delivering on pro requirements, eliminating server grade and pro options, and then when they finally do a nice pro upgrade for once, they under deliver for a premium. buying pro hardware these days from Apple includes a free kick me sign to wear on your back
 
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maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,717
I just think Apple's customer service should be more responsive,
I'm not arguing that point, but I am just saying you really don't have options.
Keep it.
Return it and buy something that is close what you need (and in stock).
[doublepost=1532254723][/doublepost]
Or hang onto current one while BtO is completed. Sell the old new machine.
Yes, good point that's another option.
 

Lennyvalentin

macrumors 65816
Apr 25, 2011
1,431
794
I just think Apple's customer service should be more responsive
A fair request some would say, considering Apple sells expensive premium laptops. However as reality does not seem to meet our expectations we have to make do with what you got.

If I was as annoyed as you seem to be, I'd return the i9 laptop I've got now for my money back, buy an i5 laptop they have in stock and order the other i7 model I wanted my original i9 exchanged for (which they were unable to accommodate).

Then when my ordered i7 laptop arrives I'd return the stock i5 model for money back, and then hopefully be happy. :D
(Personally I just can't stand windows laptops, so buying one of those really isn't a viable choice...)

Best of luck to you!
 
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Ma2k5

macrumors 68030
Dec 21, 2012
2,563
2,538
London
I reckon if you can take it higher - you may be able to get an extension. Perhaps a visit to a store and speak to someone face to face.

Something tells me they’d rather extend the return period, instead of you cancelling the order outright.
 

Ploki

macrumors 601
Jan 21, 2008
4,319
1,560
Yes, seriously. This is what their website says about the i9:



Sounds pretty accurate to me
...
those NEVER hit 4,8GHz, and base freq (when throttled) is well below 2,9 and sometimes drops significantly lower to 2,2 or shuts off to 800MHz.

So, "when thermals allow it" means "when we design a macbook that supports it"? That's stupid.
 

drvelocity

macrumors regular
Oct 20, 2008
119
89
You're actually fine - you have 14 days to initiate the return, but after you do that you have another 14 days to actually get the laptop to Apple. So in effect it's a 28-day return policy.
 

AuricBlue

macrumors member
Jan 3, 2007
67
36
If I was as annoyed as you seem to be, I'd return the i9 laptop I've got now for my money back, buy an i5 laptop they have in stock and order the other i7 model I wanted my original i9 exchanged for (which they were unable to accommodate).

Then when my ordered i7 laptop arrives I'd return the stock i5 model for money back, and then hopefully be happy. :D

@dguisinger, get the base model, return this one, order the one you want, return the base model.

I don't recall which thread but some in this forum have reported that Apple has a one return per year limit. I’d double check with them before attempting to return two laptops.
[doublepost=1532262771][/doublepost]Also, have you seen this thread on power limits by @Aea? It might help and allow you to keep your current Mac.
 
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hajime

macrumors 604
Jul 23, 2007
7,856
1,290
I don't recall which thread but some in this forum have reported that Apple has a one return per year limit. I’d double check with them before attempting to return two laptops.
[doublepost=1532262771][/doublepost]Also, have you seen this thread on power limits by @Aea? It might help and allow you to keep your current Mac.

That is what the online chat agent told me and the sales in store told me that if that is what they said, that would be the official policy. This is one of the reasons I keep the purchase on hold.
 

Ma2k5

macrumors 68030
Dec 21, 2012
2,563
2,538
London
That is what the online chat agent told me and the sales in store told me that if that is what they said, that would be the official policy. This is one of the reasons I keep the purchase on hold.

How do they track how many returns you did? By payment method? Just trying to see at what point in store they realise I’ve already did a return.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,717
How do they track how many returns you did? By payment method? Just trying to see at what point in store they realise I’ve already did a return.
I'm sure its fairly easy for apple.
Apple id, address, credit card, any one of those or even a mixture is sufficient.
 
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