Anyone here ever experiment on the Intel G5?

Discussion in 'PowerPC Macs' started by WalnutSpice, Jun 13, 2016.

  1. WalnutSpice Suspended

    WalnutSpice

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    #1
    Just curious if anyone here ever got their hands on the super rare Intel G5 and if anyones tried anything with it like Running Snow Leopard and just testing everyday performance. I've been super curious about them ever since I almost got one. Unfortunately it never came through
     
  2. oi! Suspended

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    #2
    I didn't know Apple built any!


    (you do see stuff on eBay misidentified pretty often though, including 'Intel G5' when they're selling a Mac Pro)
     
  3. WalnutSpice thread starter Suspended

    WalnutSpice

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    #3
    No, during the transition phase Apple released G5 PowerMacs with Pentium 4 CPUs that ran Tiger so developers could transition their applications to Intel before Intel Macs hit the market.
    Edit* I say released but it was more so 'loaned' to bigger devs with the intention of them returning them, but Apple sent some of these G5s mistakenly to the wrong people who didn't really even understand what it was so they sold it off for a quick buck. Thats mostly how most of the ones that made it to the wild got there.
     
  4. MagicBoy, Jun 14, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2016

    MagicBoy macrumors 68040

    MagicBoy

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    #4
    That would be the Apple Developer Transition System.

    Intel G5. LOL!

    As far as I know they won't run anything past the special build of OS X 10.4.1 they shipped with. They were to be returned to Apple and replaced with initial production hardware, of which none had same core components as the DTS.
     
  5. ziggy29 macrumors regular

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    #5
    I'd be afraid to buy one of these. If they were interested in pursuing it I'd think Apple could claim they are stolen property and sue to recover them, or even press charges for possession of stolen property. OK, the latter seems unlikely, but still the stolen property argument could easily be made.
     
  6. Orizence macrumors 6502

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    #6
    I would imagine it would run like any PC with a 3.6ghz Pentium 4, nothing spectacular; just enough to get going on porting your code to x86
     
  7. eyoungren macrumors P6

    eyoungren

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    #7
    Never doubt Apple's pursuit of it's property, intellectual or otherwise! ;)

    You say it seems unlikely they would pursue charges…I point you to what they did when an iPhone prototype was left at a bar in California's Bay Area.

    Two Apple security personnel, using the authority of the SFPD, and without identifying themselves as Apple security gained access to a suspect's home and searched the house. No warrant, no right to be there, completely illegal search and invasion of privacy.

    The suspect assumed that because there were two SFPD cops present the other two were ALSO SFPD, which of course they were NOT! They did not identify themselves and they showed no ID. They were not police officers and yet they searched this guy's house.

    And this was just the stuff we know about!
     
  8. bunnspecial macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

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    #8
    DTKs have sold openly on Ebay. That's not to say Apple won't come after you, but I think the chances are low. They're more concerned about new products(esp. unreleased ones) than long obsolesced ones. I obtained the beta of OS X...er macOS Sierra legally yesterday and have had it installed last night. I imagine I WOULD be in big trouble if I started selling USB install keys on Ebay.

    With that said, if I had a DTK(I want one badly) I'd intentionally keep quiet about owning it.
     
  9. Hrududu macrumors 68020

    Hrududu

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    #9
    I saw one on eBay maybe 6 or so years back and really thought about grabbing it. It sold really cheap too, less than $300 I recall. I regret not throwing in a bid for it. As best I can tell though, running anything more than a modified version of Tiger isn't easy. It would probably be a lot easier to get Windows 10 running.
     
  10. Xandros macrumors regular

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    #10
    If that's the iPhone 5 prototype from 2011 that went missing in a Cava22, I seem to recall that the guy actually offered to let them in and search his property to prove he didn't have the device. It wasn't quite as clandestine as you make out. Of course that's just what I read about it back in the day, and you can't believe everything you read in the papers.
     
  11. eyoungren macrumors P6

    eyoungren

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    #11
    iPhone 4s prototype.

    https://www.engadget.com/2011/11/07/apple-security-chief-john-theriault-reportedly-retiring/

    Emphasis mine.
     
  12. Xandros macrumors regular

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    #12
  13. WalnutSpice thread starter Suspended

    WalnutSpice

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    #14
    I just find "Intel G5" to be less of a mouth full
     
  14. eyoungren macrumors P6

    eyoungren

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    #15
    As compared to…PowerMac Pro? ;)
     
  15. WalnutSpice thread starter Suspended

    WalnutSpice

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    #16
    Haha, that one does sound pretty cool
     
  16. MagicBoy macrumors 68040

    MagicBoy

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    #17
    Hell, just call it Bob. Short and Pithy. ;)
     
  17. Anonymous Freak macrumors 601

    Anonymous Freak

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    #18
    Developer Transition Kits (DTKs) have been sold without difficulty before. But only long after they were obsolete.

    They are extremely underpowered by today's standards, and power hungry. They use the old single-core Pentium 4, and the motherboard is a custom one designed by Intel just for the DTK. It is firmware locked to the specific CPU that shipped with it, and cannot be upgraded. It uses old-fashioned BIOS, not EFI, so it can't boot any Mac OS other than the custom version of Tiger it came with; although I suppose you could "hackintosh" a newer OS on to it like with any generic PC, though. I thought I read of someone doing that with Snow Leopard, but the performance was terrible. (It has REALLY bad integrated graphics.)

    And, of course, the DTK is *NOT* a PowerPC. It is firmly an Intel (x86-64) system, just an old bad one.
     
  18. MagicBoy macrumors 68040

    MagicBoy

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    #19
    The really bad integrated graphics being the i915 IIRC? They were so crap Microsoft invented a new level of Vista hardware support as it couldn't even run Aero.
     
  19. oi!, Jun 15, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2016

    oi! Suspended

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    #20
    Err, statute of limitations?
    OK, so I hunted around on the net, here's what I found...

    "The mothership required all DTS units to be returned after one year, so very few of these hybrid Macs survive outside the gates of Cupertino."
    "The DTS is an interesting beast. A small logic board labelled Barracuda sits inside a ridiculously large tower (to fool the passers-by). The processor is a 3.6GHz Pentium 4 with Hyper-Threading. But despite being an Intel version of Mac OS X Universal applications will not launch in Intel mode, they just bounce a few times in the dock then abort. In order to launch third party software you need to check the preference to “Launch using Rosetta” in the Finder’s Get Info window. As far as these apps are concerned, they’re still running in a PowerPC world.
    When you first start the machine a BIOS screen appears, allowing you to hit F4 and set the boot drive order, system date, etc.. No Open Firmware here. Unlike other Macs the hard drive needs to be partitioned using Master Boot Record (MBR), not GUID as used for all shipping Intel-based Macs. That’s unique. This thing is really a PC with proprietary software pasted on top. Look at all those Pentium 4 CPU features!"
    "The magic system necessary is Mac OS X build 8b1025"
    http://vintagemacmuseum.com/the-apple-developer-transition-system-a-trojan-horse-powermac/



    "According to reports, the systems identify themselves as Apple Development Platform (ADP 2,1) and sport a 3.6 GHz Intel Pentium 4 with 2 MB L2 Cache, 800MHz front-side bus, and 4 DIMM slots — two of which are occupied by 512MB 533MHz DDR2 Dual Channel SDRAM modules for a total of 1GB of SDRAM.

    Sources said the system\'s graphics card identifies itself as an Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 900 (GMA 900). Some other reports have placed an Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 800 (GMA 800) inside the units. It\'s unclear if those reports are inaccurate, or if Apple is shipping the systems with slightly varying specs.

    Perhaps the most interesting aspect of the development systems is their PCI layout, which implies that Apple will likely adopt the PCI-Express interface by the time it ships its first Intel Macs. In addition to two vacant 33 MHz, 32-bit PCI slots, the systems pack a single 1X PCI-Express slot and a single 16X PCI-Express slot — the latter of which comes occupied by a Silicon Image Orion ADD2 card offering DVI-D compatibility.

    For its drive interface, sources say the development systems include a total of 4 Serial ATA (SATA) connectors. Two of the connectors are free, one is wired to a 160GB/7200rpm SATA hard disk drive and the other dangling. A 16x DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW optical drive is connected to an ATA chain.

    These development-based Intel Macs appear to be shipping in a slightly modified aluminum Power Mac G5 enclosure that sports an altered cooling system consisting of a different fan configuration. Located at the rear of the unit are two USB 2.0 ports, a Gigabit Ethernet connector, and one FireWire 400 port. On the front of the unit developers have access to a headphone jack, one USB 2.0 port, one FireWire 400 Port and a micro switch that comes mounted next to the power switch and can be activated by a paperclip. However, its function is unknown.

    Also shipping inside the development kit packages is a keyboard, mouse, power cable, keyboard cable, and Mac OS X 10.4.1 for Intel DVD. Sources so far have reported absolutely no luck in their attempts to boot the included copy of Mac OS X for Intel on other PC systems. In their attempts to do so, they have reportedly been met by error messages stating that the PC hardware configurations are not supported by Darwin — the underlying UNIX-based foundation to Mac OS X.

    Developers who signed up to receive Developer Transition systems are actually renting the $999 hardware from Apple for a period of approximately 18 months. Apple requires that the developers make plans to return the systems to Apple within a week of December 31, 2006."
    Inside Apple\'s Intel-based Dev Transition Kit (Photos) By Katie Marsal Thursday, June 23, 2005, 08:00 am PT (11:00 am ET)
    http://appleinsider.com/articles/05/06/23/inside_apples_intel_based_dev_transition_kit_photos


    "some site had a photo of the guts of one of the dev boxes. the mainboard looked like a pretty standard Intel 915G microATX board"
    "I believe someone observed that the setup was a P4 that was somehow mated with Apple's Northbridge."
    Build your own Developer Transition Kit?
    Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005
    http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=382420



    Also
    http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/value-of-an-intel-developer-kit-g5.1013554/



    Starting around 23 minutes in...

    Apple Developer Kit 43:34.
    I must have seen (or read about) at least some of this back in the day.
    I only now realise where this stuff came from, but here's the key things that stuck in my mind...
    The rumors of Intel versions of OSX 10.1 to 10.4 were all true.
    Developed in parallel "Just In Case."
    We're going to be supporting both these processors for a long time, because we've go a very large installed base on the PowerPC... (32:53)
    (Snow Leopard shipped August 28, 2009)
     
  20. MagicBoy macrumors 68040

    MagicBoy

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    #21
    Well done. Have an "I can type stuff into Google" award.
     
  21. oi! Suspended

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    #22
    Yes, I can type stuff into google.
    I can then read through page after page of duplicates and rubbish, select only the good bits and link to those pages. Then find and watch 40+ minutes of Steve Jobbs (and others) doing their presentation on stage for the relevant bit's and post the times to skip to.

    Not everybody here has been here since 1863, knows everything about everything about every Apple product and prototype ever produced, designed or discussed in a private meeting in 1982. Not everyone has 40+ minutes to spend watching a video from 2005 for maybe a minute of relevant content.


    So I hope you'll forgive me for sharing my research with the forum as a whole for the benefit mainly of those members not blessed with boundless Apple related background knowledge. I like to be helpful, if you don't like that about me, why not just ask the admins to delete my account?
     
  22. bunnspecial macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

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    #23
    BTW, I have a couple of the video cards for these-mine were pulled from junked Dells at work. The video card isn't a true independent GPU, but more just a PCIe card that provides a DVI output for the onboard graphics.
     
  23. MagicBoy macrumors 68040

    MagicBoy

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    #24
    ADD2 cards if memory serves? Literally just a output encoder on a board that interfaces with the chipset graphics.

    When we tried to buy a batch for work, they were only a £5 cheaper than a proper dual head 5200, so guess what we bought? ;)
     
  24. oi!, Jun 15, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2016

    oi! Suspended

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    #25
    So you did read my post?
    (6th paragraph)


    So, in 2005 the the British economy was doing well, had been for a few years, and would be for several more years. I'm guessing any company you work for probably has money to burn, so my guess is they went with the 5200 cards.
     

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