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While your last degree certainly does matter the most, I am under the impression that your undergraduate education matters a bit more then many posters seem to be presenting. When applying to grad school you are going to be neck-to-neck with many applicants and ultimately prestige and name of the university are going to be a factor.

Again, I could easily be mistaken but that is my current impression based on friends applying to graduate school from Harvard compared to those applying to graduate school from state schools.

I had no problem coming from a small school that few know of (granted, my programs aren't as competitive to enter as some). Got into seven top accounting and tax programs, one with nearly full funding (would have gone if I wouldn't have had to spend an extra semester there doing some prerequisites they required that no other schools did). My girlfriend goes to the same school I do and was accepted out of undergrad into a couple of psychology PhD programs (one with about a 2% acceptance rate, not sure about the other, but its well under 10%).

That said, we both have well above 3.9s, above average test scores, led clubs, volunteered, were hired as TA/tutors and spent time getting to know our professors (and she does research). Undergraduate is really what you make of it. If you take advantage of opportunities and get involved, whether at a small school or a larger well known one like Harvard, you'll likely succeed and not have a ton of problem getting into graduate school. If you don't put the effort in, even having Harvard on your diploma isn't going to help you much.

I also really think it depends on what you want to do. If you want to do neuroscience, the choice is pretty obvious, going to a small unknown school isn't going to give you the resources and opportunities to do much in undergrad and lack of resources will hurt your chances of doing work that will get you into graduate school. You have to go where the opportunites are in what you want to study; for some areas of study, you can do just as well at small liberal arts as you can at huge state or even Ivy, but for other areas, the resources just aren't going to be at small schools.

However, its certainly never going to hurt you to go to Harvard or another well known university if you get good grades, get involved, and work hard, especially if you're on a nice scholarship. Its not too likely that an admissions committee will look down on Harvard, et al and having a big name on your resume could certainly give you a little extra boost over a similar candidate for a lesser known school.

I will say, that in my experience, it is somewhat easier to get to know your professors at smaller schools. Every professor I've ever had knew my name and for the most part, they all still know it now; I had a sociology professor in the first semester of my freshmen year who still says "hi" to me using my first name when our paths cross. Most of my friends at UC Berkeley, UCLA, Irvine, CSUN, SDSU etc., can't say that. In fact, one of my friends was looking to connect with a professor he had taken one or two courses with in the past, he met with the professor five times, the guy didn't remember who he was once. Of course, if you get in as a TA/GA/DA/research assistant or you have a professor mentor you on a research project, it becomes significantly easier to connect with faculty. Personally, I think it takes more effort on the part of a student at a larger school, but that's not to say it is impossible.


Also, congratulations Fivetoadsloth, getting into JH is very impressive and quite an achievement!
 
Hi, I am starting my search for college as I am a Jr. in Highschool. My GPA is 3.6/3.7 and on my PSAT I got a 1660. I will be taking my SAT's on May 1st. Know my question is what colleges do people here go to and how similar were you grades to mine? Princeton is my dream school so if anyone here goes there Id love to hear from you. But again its a dream school so I must be realistic and would like to hear from anyone. I must confess that my moms cousin is the vice dean of admissions at Princeton so that may help. Thanks everyone in advance for your help!

your grades arent up to snuff for ivy league

3.7 out of a 4.0 and a 1660 out of 2400? Need to work on that big time

Avg SAT scores
Princeton: For the Class of 2010, the middle 50% of admitted students had Critical Reading scores between 690-800, Math between 700-790, and Writing between 680-780.

Have a backup plan, it's a smart thing to do


As for myself, I applied to Kansas, Colorado, Colorado State, and Embry Riddle (Prescott campus) for undergrad and chose CSU
 
Most of my friends at UC Berkeley, UCLA, Irvine, CSUN, SDSU etc., can't say that.

It also depends on the program, though. I went to a large school, but the undergraduate program for one of my degrees was pretty tiny. So I knew all my professors well, and senior year, I didn't have a class with more than ten students in it.

Of course if I had studied English or something, it'd be different, I know. :p
 
It also depends on the program, though. I went to a large school, but the undergraduate program for one of my degrees was pretty tiny. So I knew all my professors well, and senior year, I didn't have a class with more than ten students in it.

Of course if I had studied English or something, it'd be different, I know. :p

Quite true. My friends are mostly English, Political Science, etc. majors; their classes are usually good size, though most upper division aren't in the stereotypical 500 seat lecture hall.

I've got small classes as well. For some reason, accounting isn't particularly popular.:p I had one class with 6 students, when we did a group project, the whole class was one group, haha. I think there are about 15 people in my graduation year graduating as accounting majors.
 
This is absolutely bogus. If you are at all serious about any subject, you will be taking graduate courses at the end of your undergrad career. The schools with the best graduate departments are the top universities that everyone has heard of.

Obviously, introductory courses are pretty much the same everywhere, but that isn't the measure of a good education.

I went to UVA and double majored in math and physics. The math department isn't particularly good, I think it's ranked 35th or so in the set of all math grad schools. I took a bunch of grad courses, 1.5 years worth, and I thought I was hot ****. Then I went to the University of Maryland, which is ranked 15th, and saw another level. The same level of classes were much more rigorous, harder, and covered more topics. I even had a taste of what Princeton-level grad math was like because one of my professors was snatched away from Princeton and didn't change the lectures. The contrast from UVA was completely apparent.

Incidentally, the hardest I ever worked at UVA was a philosophy class where, surprise!, UVA is highly ranked.

My point being, the top-ranked schools really are that good. It is important to get the subject right (for example, UVA is good in soft-sciences but not nearly as good in the hard sciences), but for the most part you cannot go wrong going to Harvard and the like.

Going back to the OP, I'm sorry to say but in this day and age it's really hard to get into top schools. I see people all the time with 4.0s, top SAT scores, and activities out the wazoo not get into top school. It's mostly a problem of grade inflation, making it much more difficult to separate yourself from your peers. The only way to counteract it is to specialize in high school (research, etc) but I think that's a crap thing to be forced to do in high school.

As a mild contradiction to what I said earlier, non-top schools generally aren't bad. They aren't as good, but you can get a great education at a school you've never heard of. For my subject, UVA was a non-top school, but I don't really have any regrets going there because it got me into a good grad school.

Interesting. When I did my undergrad at a small liberal arts college I studied with only the best scholars and professionals in my field. While in grad school at Columbia I teach undergrads here as a TA, some of my classes are over 100 students and they are not getting nearly the attention that I did. I guess it's all perspective huh?
 
Also, congratulations Fivetoadsloth, getting into JH is very impressive and quite an achievement!

I'm going to do some braggin' on Fivetoadsloth's behalf since he's too much of a nice guy to do it himself. Also coz he picked my alma mater. :)

Fivetoadsloth has knocked off every single medical school (pre-med) course requirement save organic chemistry with 5s on his AP tests before he even got to college. And this year's tests aren't till May, which means he took them last year. FTS probably would have been accepted anywhere he applied.

It also depends on the program, though. I went to a large school, but the undergraduate program for one of my degrees was pretty tiny. So I knew all my professors well, and senior year, I didn't have a class with more than ten students in it.

Of course if I had studied English or something, it'd be different, I know. :p

I thought you didn't get involved in these threads because they always became a dick waving contest?
 
Okay after seeing this a few times, I have to comment.

This thread title is hilarious. That's like... anyone here drive a bentley? Any car? Anyone here a millionaire? Got a quarter?

I mean it's so broad it's just humorous. I dunno though. Maybe it's just me. :D
 
Okay after seeing this a few times, I have to comment.

This thread title is hilarious. That's like... anyone here drive a bentley? Any car? Anyone here a millionaire? Got a quarter?

I mean it's so broad it's just humorous. I dunno though. Maybe it's just me. :D

.... I was thinking the same exact thing (ok, not exact, I was thinking another car manufacturer and replace quarter with money in general). Seen the thread pop up several times, never checked it, saw it this time and I just had to look.
 
Is 4.0 still the highest you can have? Also my GPA over the last 3 years comes out to be 3.8 and thats with a few honors classes. Next year I will be taking an AP class if that makes a difference.

If you haven't had AP courses by now pick a new school besides Princeton, I'm a Junior and have taken 4 already and will have 9 when I graduate, and I think I have somewhere around a 4.1-4.2 GPA, yet I probably still wouldn't get admitted.
 
I'm going to do some braggin' on Fivetoadsloth's behalf since he's too much of a nice guy to do it himself. Also coz he picked my alma mater. :)

Fivetoadsloth has knocked off every single medical school (pre-med) course requirement save organic chemistry with 5s on his AP tests before he even got to college. And this year's tests aren't till May, which means he took them last year. FTS probably would have been accepted anywhere he applied.

Thanks Signal-11, but I fear you are giving me too much credit.

If you haven't had AP courses by now pick a new school besides Princeton, I'm a Junior and have taken 4 already and will have 9 when I graduate, and I think I have somewhere around a 4.1-4.2 GPA, yet I probably still wouldn't get admitted.

I wouldn't say that not having AP classes is ever a reason to need to 'pick a new college.' Many schools limit how many AP classes you can take and others simply don't offer as many. What I will say about AP tests though is it really shows devotion when you pursue what you are interested in out of the classroom. Independent study for an AP test and score well on it.

Also, I've never really understood the competition regarding taking as many AP tests as possible. If you take x amount and someone else takes x+1 that really does not mean anything at all.

Also, just for some clarification- even though I am not sure any is needed- every different school uses different grading systems. This makes comparison far more difficult, and I would assume more frustrating. I know schools that are on a 100 point scale, 13 point, 4 point, 4 point with 5 point AP weighting, etc. If you are going to try to compare yourself to anyone by a GPA, I think that two numbers are actually important: 1.) how you compare to those within your own school (class rank) 2.) Colleges get your transcript and many recalculate your GPA- I know the california system has their method posted- and this typically deweights things.
 
Not fully but I can pay up to $35,000 a year and I believe Princeton is $50,000.


And to answer others yes Princeton is my "reach" school and I will apply to other state and private schools. And yes I can have strings pulled on the inside with my mom's cousin and I also have strings at Rutgers were my mom's friend is on the board of directors.

I take it that you're from Jersey since you're looking at Princeton and Rutgers?

If that's the case, I'd seriously consider looking outside of the state for business programs. Seton Hall may be a suitable choice, but Rutgers doesn't really seem to have a decent business program. You also have to consider the atmosphere of the schools that you are looking at. While Rutgers-New Brunswick has an alright campus, I hear that there's a lot of shuffling around from the distant reaches of campus. Camden campus is very disappointing.

If you really want to go to an Ivy, UPenn has a nice grad business program (unsure about undergrad). However, I have some doubts about your test scores / GPA with regards to your admission.

Are you looking to stay close to home? If you are, then your choices will obviously be limited by location. If you do attend a state school, you should be able to swing free tuition.
 
If you really want to go to an Ivy, UPenn has a nice grad business program (unsure about undergrad). However, I have some doubts about your test scores / GPA with regards to your admission.

Wharton is an absolutely phenomenal business school for undergraduates but it is also incredibly selective. It was under 10% last year, and is even lower this year. While I am not sure if any official numbers have been released, it could easily be around eight percent. Wharton is consistently ranked one of the best undergraduate business schools in the country, often by a significant margin.
 
I'm going to do some braggin' on Fivetoadsloth's behalf since he's too much of a nice guy to do it himself. Also coz he picked my alma mater. :)

Fivetoadsloth has knocked off every single medical school (pre-med) course requirement save organic chemistry with 5s on his AP tests before he even got to college. And this year's tests aren't till May, which means he took them last year. FTS probably would have been accepted anywhere he applied.

That is quite impressive. I've often wished I took more APs in high school, but I can't say it worked out poorly for me. It would have been nice to avoid some of the more boring general education type requirements. I got decent grades in high school, but never really put much work into the school portion (golf, however, is a different story).


Wharton is an absolutely phenomenal business school for undergraduates but it is also incredibly selective. It was under 10% last year, and is even lower this year. While I am not sure if any official numbers have been released, it could easily be around eight percent. Wharton is consistently ranked one of the best undergraduate business schools in the country, often by a significant margin.

Indeed, Wharton's undergrad (as well as grad) is very good. Wharton's undergrad admissions is also different than many undergrad business curriculums in that you actually apply for entrance as a senior in high school; many top programs make you apply to the business school as a sophomore already attending the university.

Personally, I'd look into the University of Virginia. Its another top business program, great campus, easier to get into the business program than Wharton (60% offer rate last year at UVA), and if you decide not to do business, its a good school for a lot of other areas. That said, it would still be a reach school with the OP's scores/GPA, but it might just be a little bit more plausible than Princeton.
 
does your school utilize weighted grades?

It does but only if you in honors or AP classes. With a weighted GPA I have a 4.0



I take it that you're from Jersey since you're looking at Princeton and Rutgers?

If that's the case, I'd seriously consider looking outside of the state for business programs. Seton Hall may be a suitable choice, but Rutgers doesn't really seem to have a decent business program. You also have to consider the atmosphere of the schools that you are looking at. While Rutgers-New Brunswick has an alright campus, I hear that there's a lot of shuffling around from the distant reaches of campus. Camden campus is very disappointing.

If you really want to go to an Ivy, UPenn has a nice grad business program (unsure about undergrad). However, I have some doubts about your test scores / GPA with regards to your admission.

Are you looking to stay close to home? If you are, then your choices will obviously be limited by location. If you do attend a state school, you should be able to swing free tuition.

I do live in Jersey. I have heard that about Rutgers and if I did go there it would be only to their main campus. I have also looked at Seton Hall, Im going to visit their next month. Also how do you think I can swing free tuition at a state school?
 
In academia the resume takes a back seat to the CV, which is a much more appropriate document to put a long employment history or list of publication. A 7-page long CV usually isn't necessary anyways, other than to solidify the point that you have published extensively (which isn't always a good thing, either).

There is, of course, a major difference between a resume and a CV. A 7-page resume (a la Dwight Schrute) would probably be instantly rejected by any HR type. The thought of a high school graduate-to-be having enough material to fill 7 pages is kind of comical to me in the first place.

employer's thought when he sees seven page resume "you've lost how many jobs?????"
 
Interesting. When I did my undergrad at a small liberal arts college I studied with only the best scholars and professionals in my field. While in grad school at Columbia I teach undergrads here as a TA, some of my classes are over 100 students and they are not getting nearly the attention that I did. I guess it's all perspective huh?

I'm betting you teach introductory classes as a TA, just like I do. When you start taking 500-700 level classes as an upperclassman, you're not going to be in a big class being taught by a TA. Your primary concern is the quality of the professor, and professors at prestigious universities are better because, well, that's what makes the university prestigious. When you do research as an undergraduate, you want your advisor or co-author to be the expert in his/her field. You are more likely to find that at Harvard and the like.
 
I'm betting you teach introductory classes as a TA, just like I do. When you start taking 500-700 level classes as an upperclassman, you're not going to be in a big class being taught by a TA. Your primary concern is the quality of the professor, and professors at prestigious universities are better because, well, that's what makes the university prestigious. When you do research as an undergraduate, you want your advisor or co-author to be the expert in his/her field. You are more likely to find that at Harvard and the like.

your perspective is a bit skewed. My response was to your claim that my previous point about LAC's was "completely bogus". You didn't go to a LAC. I did. I am now a TA at an Ivy league school, so I am suggesting that my LAC education was pretty top notch. Just because a school is more famous than another does not make it better. Also, the rankings are completely skewed when it comes to real world results. I'm not saying top raked schools aren't good, all of my degrees are from the very top schools in my field. But a selective LAC can be a much better experience for many people for their undergraduate study.
 
While your last degree certainly does matter the most, I am under the impression that your undergraduate education matters a bit more then many posters seem to be presenting. When applying to grad school you are going to be neck-to-neck with many applicants and ultimately prestige and name of the university are going to be a factor.

Again, I could easily be mistaken but that is my current impression based on friends applying to graduate school from Harvard compared to those applying to graduate school from state schools.

I was going to stay out of this thread, but then I saw this terrible advice and thought I should give my opinion from someone who just got done applying for graduate school.

The "prestige" and name of the university are not factored into decisions at all by any serious graduate program. Here's what is actually important:

1. A great statement of purpose. Being able to articulate your research interests and show that you have a basic understanding of the state of your field is one of the best things you can do to get into your program of choice.

2. Great letters of recommendations. More than the name of the university you are coming from, recommendations from respected professors go a long way. While there are renowned all-star professors teaching at ivy league schools, there are also all-star faculty at state universities and non-ivy private universities. Also, as an undegrad, you will have likely had very little to no contact with any all-star scholar in your field at any university you go to. They have little to no teaching requirements so they can focus entirely on research. You want letters from people who know you well, and that means any professor with whom you took multiple classes or did research under.

3. A good CV. Some programs require a CV, others don't. Only one of my programs required that I include a CV with my application, but I was still able to show that I have a background that includes work in my field.
 
I was going to stay out of this thread, but then I saw this terrible advice and thought I should give my opinion from someone who just got done applying for graduate school.

The "prestige" and name of the university are not factored into decisions at all by any serious graduate program. Here's what is actually important:

1. A great statement of purpose. Being able to articulate your research interests and show that you have a basic understanding of the state of your field is one of the best things you can do to get into your program of choice.

2. Great letters of recommendations. More than the name of the university you are coming from, recommendations from respected professors go a long way. While there are renowned all-star professors teaching at ivy league schools, there are also all-star faculty at state universities and non-ivy private universities. Also, as an undegrad, you will have likely had very little to no contact with any all-star scholar in your field at any university you go to. They have little to no teaching requirements so they can focus entirely on research. You want letters from people who know you well, and that means any professor with whom you took multiple classes or did research under.

3. A good CV. Some programs require a CV, others don't. Only one of my programs required that I include a CV with my application, but I was still able to show that I have a background that includes work in my field.

My mistake! Sorry, definitely listen to it5five. I guess I didn't know what I was talking about. My statement regarding 'prestige' I feel was a bit misinterpreted- what I meant was more something along the lines of what it5five wrote in his second point.

Again, sorry for any confusion and faulty advice.
 
I was going to stay out of this thread, but then I saw this terrible advice and thought I should give my opinion from someone who just got done applying for graduate school.

The "prestige" and name of the university are not factored into decisions at all by any serious graduate program. Here's what is actually important:

1. A great statement of purpose. Being able to articulate your research interests and show that you have a basic understanding of the state of your field is one of the best things you can do to get into your program of choice.

2. Great letters of recommendations. More than the name of the university you are coming from, recommendations from respected professors go a long way. While there are renowned all-star professors teaching at ivy league schools, there are also all-star faculty at state universities and non-ivy private universities. Also, as an undegrad, you will have likely had very little to no contact with any all-star scholar in your field at any university you go to. They have little to no teaching requirements so they can focus entirely on research. You want letters from people who know you well, and that means any professor with whom you took multiple classes or did research under.

3. A good CV. Some programs require a CV, others don't. Only one of my programs required that I include a CV with my application, but I was still able to show that I have a background that includes work in my field.

I'll agree with all three of these points as being dead on, and I'll even go one further with a #0:

0. Program/faculty fit. Probably more than anything, fit with the program you're applying is the most important. It doesn't matter how good anything else is, you can be the messiah on paper, but if the program doesn't have the resources/faculty to support your research in grad school, there's no reason they will take you.
 
your perspective is a bit skewed. My response was to your claim that my previous point about LAC's was "completely bogus". You didn't go to a LAC. I did. I am now a TA at an Ivy league school, so I am suggesting that my LAC education was pretty top notch. Just because a school is more famous than another does not make it better. Also, the rankings are completely skewed when it comes to real world results. I'm not saying top raked schools aren't good, all of my degrees are from the very top schools in my field. But a selective LAC can be a much better experience for many people for their undergraduate study.

Perhaps my language was excessive. My perspective is that to get into good grad school, the best thing you can have is a well-known professor vouch for you. It's "easiest" to find a good professor at a brand name place.

Of course if you want to do subject X, and the LAC has great professors in subject X, by all means go there. I'm probably different than you, but I didn't have the foresight in HS to know wtf I wanted to specialize in, let alone which subject. UVA is brand name, but even it was not good in my field, and non-existant in my specialty. Places like Harvard have good professors in most branches, giving lots of flexibility. I would have had a hard time choosing an appropriate LAC.
 
If you really want to go to an Ivy, UPenn has a nice grad business program (unsure about undergrad). However, I have some doubts about your test scores / GPA with regards to your admission.

I have to say that assertion is misleading, as I recently got into Wharton's undergraduate program with a 2120 SAT and a 3.57/4.2 GPA. From my experience, I have to say that they truly look at a candidate as a whole, not just his/her scores.
 
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