Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Anyone here into FOREX?
- Thread starter Music_Producer
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
- Status
no trade on AUD employment #s. unemployment rate dropped which had a bigger effect than the job # ...guess everyone really wants that rate hike
Oh ok, I was out at dinner and could not trade this one.
I guess I didn't miss much.
GBP Trade Balance should be interesting though.
Gonna try to get a few hours of sleep before this announcement.
Good trading everyone.
I won't be getting up tonight for the GBP trade, but I will be watching the US data when I wake up tomorrow. Good luck all!
I had a crappy Aussie trade today. I saw the employment change report (come out -ve) so I hit 'sell' on AUD/USD.. and it did go down 20 pips.. but CMC executed my sell order after 25 seconds! I saw aud/usd spike back up on the 4.5% news, and I assumed I was probably going to get a re-quote.. but no, the f@ckers cleared my sell order. What was more surprising was that my response time was only 150 ms. In all, I got hit with a 20 pip loss.
Anyway, for the UK trade balance, I opted to trade a small lot - about 100,000 units. Guess what? Same thing happened, except this time, my 'sell' order got executed after 40 seconds.. by that time, gbp/usd had gone back up a bit.. so I lost 9 pips on that one. Response time was 180 ms.. so I know for sure they're deliberately doing this. They've moved from re-quotes to actually holding on to my orders.. and then clearing them when they see fit.
I don't know if this is a one time problem, but seeing this happen twice in a row, especially with super low response times, is a bit unnerving. So, just be cautious.. trade with small lots. Don't risk losing money on trading big lots and having them f@ck around like that.
Anyway, for the UK trade balance, I opted to trade a small lot - about 100,000 units. Guess what? Same thing happened, except this time, my 'sell' order got executed after 40 seconds.. by that time, gbp/usd had gone back up a bit.. so I lost 9 pips on that one. Response time was 180 ms.. so I know for sure they're deliberately doing this. They've moved from re-quotes to actually holding on to my orders.. and then clearing them when they see fit.
I don't know if this is a one time problem, but seeing this happen twice in a row, especially with super low response times, is a bit unnerving. So, just be cautious.. trade with small lots. Don't risk losing money on trading big lots and having them f@ck around like that.
Yikes, that's horrible Music_Producer! I feel bad for you, it's almost like they're trying to stifle your trading because you're so good at it... How have things been going with Currenex?
As for this morning's data, it pretty much offset itself, so no trade to be had - GBPUSD and EURUSD didn't move much at all.
I feel bad for you, it's almost like they're trying to stifle your trading because you're so good at it... How have things been going with Currenex?As for this morning's data, it pretty much offset itself, so no trade to be had - GBPUSD and EURUSD didn't move much at all.
Yikes, that's horrible Music_Producer!
As for this morning's data, it pretty much offset itself, so no trade to be had - GBPUSD and EURUSD didn't move much at all.
Currenex is unbelievable, really.. no let downs at all (so far) I have even customized two hot keys (for buy/sell) .. works like a charm. I'm still waiting to hear from either Reuters/Bloomberg.. once I have that set up, then I'll open up a proper account with a broker.
Yup, ecb didn't do anything to the rates.. as predicted. Hopefully new zealand retail sales should be fun to trade.
Sounds impressive. Are there any other fees associated with using the platform, or is all that's required is the $25K/$50K deposit? I might think about doing the $25K account, we'll see....
Yeah, unfortunately I won't be around for that one - still at work.
Ah well, this week has pretty much been a write-off for me anyway, what with work and symphony rehearsals almost every night. Next week it will be back to normal though. 
I'm about half way through reading "Profiting with FOREX"
It's a really good book with some interesting strategies.
So far I've been riding the Oil futures wave with CAD/JPY. Since Canada has larger oil reserves than Saudi Arabia, and Japan imports 100% of their oil, when oil rises so does the Canadian Dollar. I've made 10% profit in 2 days.
I'm paying attention to other news and riding expected rates. That seems to work pretty well too.
FYI, I use OANDA.
It's a really good book with some interesting strategies.
So far I've been riding the Oil futures wave with CAD/JPY. Since Canada has larger oil reserves than Saudi Arabia, and Japan imports 100% of their oil, when oil rises so does the Canadian Dollar. I've made 10% profit in 2 days.
I'm paying attention to other news and riding expected rates. That seems to work pretty well too.
FYI, I use OANDA.
I had a crappy Aussie trade today. I saw the employment change report (come out -ve) so I hit 'sell' on AUD/USD.. and it did go down 20 pips.. but CMC executed my sell order after 25 seconds! I saw aud/usd spike back up on the 4.5% news, and I assumed I was probably going to get a re-quote.. but no, the f@ckers cleared my sell order. What was more surprising was that my response time was only 150 ms. In all, I got hit with a 20 pip loss.
Anyway, for the UK trade balance, I opted to trade a small lot - about 100,000 units. Guess what? Same thing happened, except this time, my 'sell' order got executed after 40 seconds.. by that time, gbp/usd had gone back up a bit.. so I lost 9 pips on that one. Response time was 180 ms.. so I know for sure they're deliberately doing this. They've moved from re-quotes to actually holding on to my orders.. and then clearing them when they see fit.
I don't know if this is a one time problem, but seeing this happen twice in a row, especially with super low response times, is a bit unnerving. So, just be cautious.. trade with small lots. Don't risk losing money on trading big lots and having them f@ck around like that.
That sucks! Looks like you've been targeted by CMC.
Hope you can open a currenex account and have better luck with them.
What do you think about the NZD retail sales announcement?
Will it move the market much?
NZD retail sales are pretty important for the nzd/usd.. it all depends on how big the deviation is.
damn it!!!
CMC sucks!
damn it!!!
Welcome to the party pal! Re-quotes galore!
I traded nzd sales on Currenex today.. TTN came out earlier than currenex moved.. traded 10 m units, guess how much I made? $45,000
Ahh, I wish it was real money!! My wife traded on the cmc platform.. I shouted out 'Buy' to her.. and she clicked buy.. and she got a re-quote.. lol.
See Nathan, we might as well have traded on Oanda.. could have made a few pips!
I saw this interesting post at forexfactory.. so I am pasting that here (regarding retail forex brokers and how they con us):
Have just found an old laptop with some actual statistics provided to me by a couple of some major international FX dealing companies back a few years ago. The data was extracted directly from their back office systems and is accompanied by a bunch of their own analysis and comments. I guess some of these numbers could be of interest to public.
But first, just a few words about how retail FX business works. Usually, when I was asking my students if they know how dealers make their money the answer was always the same: On dealing spreads. The difference between bid and ask is what a dealer usually puts in his pocket. Such naïve belief still persists among the general population of retail FX market traders.
In fact, this business works quite differently. Because cash currency market in its origin is an interbank market it operates in large contracts. Much larger than the contracts traded by an average retail customer. Because of that, the companies providing services to retail clients have no other choice but to bucket small positions of their customers inside the house. Some of such clients positions are becoming offset by one another but obviously not all of them. When the general sentiment about markets direction is particularly strong among small-size traders then the total number of open longs and shorts becomes largely disproportional and shifted one way or another. When the bucket becomes too big to carry the dealer passes it into the market covering houses exposure. However, because only a couple of percent of traders are actually making money in the Forex market over a longer time, such statistics provides dealer with pretty good opportunity to make a lot of money just keeping their clients positions inside the house for as long as possible. In this case a dealing company business is little different than a business of Las Vegas style casino where every customer is betting against the house. In our case it is virtually the same and clients losses become dealers profits and vise versa.
Some of the dealers, especially those with deeper pockets and consolidated management routinely carry very large exposures on daily by betting against their customers. Some of them routinely carry inside the house an exposure in excess of hundreds of mio. USD.
In order to prevent some unnecessary risks and to get some protection from possible bankruptcy if the things go ugly for a dealer, every dealing company has some guidelines and internal policy with the idea of limiting their risks.
Here is what they usually do:
Limit their exposure to a certain size. After reaching the preset limit, the position gets covered in the market or hedged. Customers with large capitals and big trades are also treated differently than the rest of the clientele.
They also make customers profiling. They filter out those clients that could potentially beat the odds and trade profitably. So, they dont bucket such customers and usually immediately pass their contract to a larger counterpart like the clearinghouse or another bank. Sometimes even to another dealer. The rest of the customers with lack of brains or a lack of experience and relatively small trading capital get bucketed inside the house.
I remember myself trading through a major Europe based dealer, which began to cover all of our positions only after paying us a few mio USD of trading profits out of his own pocket in a couple of month trading period. Then they even established a dedicated telephone line for our two-way communications and greatly improved their services since.
So, here is some approximate statistics for A Dealer vs. a Trader casino style game from the dealers point of view, which I believe should be true for the industry in general. (Over 24-month period)
Winning months 15. Losing months 9.
Total annual profit 63% (of the total amount of all the customers funds in trade).
Average monthly profit 5%.
Max monthly gain 37%.
Max monthly loss 10%
Total customers loss (USD) 41 mio. Average customer monthly loss 1,8 mio.
Roughly 40-50% of customers losses can be attributed to spreads and slippages.
Average life expectancy for an active individual trader without him adding more funds into the account ~ 2 months.
There could also be some dirty tricks that some of the dealers practice for increasing their profits and minimizing the risks. Some of the most common are:
Skewing quotes away from the real market price. Usually shifting them in the direction of the immediate trend. (Doesnt happen with the most reputable dealers nowadays)
Executing stops before the market has reached them or outside actual trading range. (Pretty common for small bucket-shops).
Suddenly increase dealing spreads to hit the stops or do not execute limits even if the market has traded there. (Happens sometimes even with reputable dealers. Limits execution problem is my most frequent problem that I have to deal with on a regular basis).
Executing stops with unreasonably large slippages. (To me happens mostly only if trading large contracts. Even with banks).
Canceling executed trades. (Have never seen it personally but have seen lots of reports from others).
Re-quoting market orders in a slow market for a worse price. (Extremely common practice on all levels).
Constantly re-quoting every order in the fast market without offering an alternative price and thus not allowing making a trade at all. (Only those dealers whose trading platform is intentionally programmed to perform such a trick).
Disconnecting internet-based trading platform at the moments of increased market volatility or just freezing it for a while. (Usually, right before or during a major economic news release) (Normal practice for smaller bucket-shops but now also becomes relatively popular among larger guys too).
Have just found an old laptop with some actual statistics provided to me by a couple of some major international FX dealing companies back a few years ago. The data was extracted directly from their back office systems and is accompanied by a bunch of their own analysis and comments. I guess some of these numbers could be of interest to public.
But first, just a few words about how retail FX business works. Usually, when I was asking my students if they know how dealers make their money the answer was always the same: On dealing spreads. The difference between bid and ask is what a dealer usually puts in his pocket. Such naïve belief still persists among the general population of retail FX market traders.
In fact, this business works quite differently. Because cash currency market in its origin is an interbank market it operates in large contracts. Much larger than the contracts traded by an average retail customer. Because of that, the companies providing services to retail clients have no other choice but to bucket small positions of their customers inside the house. Some of such clients positions are becoming offset by one another but obviously not all of them. When the general sentiment about markets direction is particularly strong among small-size traders then the total number of open longs and shorts becomes largely disproportional and shifted one way or another. When the bucket becomes too big to carry the dealer passes it into the market covering houses exposure. However, because only a couple of percent of traders are actually making money in the Forex market over a longer time, such statistics provides dealer with pretty good opportunity to make a lot of money just keeping their clients positions inside the house for as long as possible. In this case a dealing company business is little different than a business of Las Vegas style casino where every customer is betting against the house. In our case it is virtually the same and clients losses become dealers profits and vise versa.
Some of the dealers, especially those with deeper pockets and consolidated management routinely carry very large exposures on daily by betting against their customers. Some of them routinely carry inside the house an exposure in excess of hundreds of mio. USD.
In order to prevent some unnecessary risks and to get some protection from possible bankruptcy if the things go ugly for a dealer, every dealing company has some guidelines and internal policy with the idea of limiting their risks.
Here is what they usually do:
Limit their exposure to a certain size. After reaching the preset limit, the position gets covered in the market or hedged. Customers with large capitals and big trades are also treated differently than the rest of the clientele.
They also make customers profiling. They filter out those clients that could potentially beat the odds and trade profitably. So, they dont bucket such customers and usually immediately pass their contract to a larger counterpart like the clearinghouse or another bank. Sometimes even to another dealer. The rest of the customers with lack of brains or a lack of experience and relatively small trading capital get bucketed inside the house.
I remember myself trading through a major Europe based dealer, which began to cover all of our positions only after paying us a few mio USD of trading profits out of his own pocket in a couple of month trading period. Then they even established a dedicated telephone line for our two-way communications and greatly improved their services since.
So, here is some approximate statistics for A Dealer vs. a Trader casino style game from the dealers point of view, which I believe should be true for the industry in general. (Over 24-month period)
Winning months 15. Losing months 9.
Total annual profit 63% (of the total amount of all the customers funds in trade).
Average monthly profit 5%.
Max monthly gain 37%.
Max monthly loss 10%
Total customers loss (USD) 41 mio. Average customer monthly loss 1,8 mio.
Roughly 40-50% of customers losses can be attributed to spreads and slippages.
Average life expectancy for an active individual trader without him adding more funds into the account ~ 2 months.
There could also be some dirty tricks that some of the dealers practice for increasing their profits and minimizing the risks. Some of the most common are:
Skewing quotes away from the real market price. Usually shifting them in the direction of the immediate trend. (Doesnt happen with the most reputable dealers nowadays)
Executing stops before the market has reached them or outside actual trading range. (Pretty common for small bucket-shops).
Suddenly increase dealing spreads to hit the stops or do not execute limits even if the market has traded there. (Happens sometimes even with reputable dealers. Limits execution problem is my most frequent problem that I have to deal with on a regular basis).
Executing stops with unreasonably large slippages. (To me happens mostly only if trading large contracts. Even with banks).
Canceling executed trades. (Have never seen it personally but have seen lots of reports from others).
Re-quoting market orders in a slow market for a worse price. (Extremely common practice on all levels).
Constantly re-quoting every order in the fast market without offering an alternative price and thus not allowing making a trade at all. (Only those dealers whose trading platform is intentionally programmed to perform such a trick).
Disconnecting internet-based trading platform at the moments of increased market volatility or just freezing it for a while. (Usually, right before or during a major economic news release) (Normal practice for smaller bucket-shops but now also becomes relatively popular among larger guys too).
Welcome to the party pal! Re-quotes galore!
I traded nzd sales on Currenex today.. TTN came out earlier than currenex moved.. traded 10 m units, guess how much I made? $45,000
My wife traded on the cmc platform.. I shouted out 'Buy' to her.. and she clicked buy.. and she got a re-quote.. lol.
See Nathan, we might as well have traded on Oanda.. could have made a few pips!
WOW!
So 1 pip was $1000 usd? and you made 45 pips in the trade?
That would have been great if it was for real.
So what are you waiting for? Open up that Currenex account.
Or you could come back to OandA
man, the way you talk about currenex has got me drooling over it like that mac pro or that motif
I also read that post on forexfactory the other day...it still amazes me that its a constant fight with the entity controlling our funds(the broker)...cant wait until I have enough for currenex.
That is so cool that you traded that much on currenex without a problem(I know its demo, but still)
Hey, there's another post on that same thread....
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=20253&page=3
Its the last one on the page...the guy is saying that ECNs want you to win so you will trade more lots which means more commision for them...makes sense.
I really hope that's the case.
Im going to go relax...Im still shaking because Im so pissed off at CMC...I want to hit someone(them)
I also read that post on forexfactory the other day...it still amazes me that its a constant fight with the entity controlling our funds(the broker)...cant wait until I have enough for currenex.
That is so cool that you traded that much on currenex without a problem(I know its demo, but still)
Hey, there's another post on that same thread....
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=20253&page=3
Its the last one on the page...the guy is saying that ECNs want you to win so you will trade more lots which means more commision for them...makes sense.
I really hope that's the case.
Im going to go relax...Im still shaking because Im so pissed off at CMC...I want to hit someone(them)
You can't.. well, you can get around it by trading long term strategies.. that calls for technical trading, etc.. which holds not much of a profit potential as compared to what we're doing with the news. If you give me a good broker, and no re-quote or slippage crap.. I can triple the account in a month or two.
Nathan, i've tried ecns.. mb trading for e.g. For market orders during news they give huge slippage.. they will execute ur trade 30-50 seconds after you hit buy or sell.
The only thing I can think of is,.. to open an account.. trade profitably for a bit, and then as soon as the broker starts noticing you and acts funny, close your account and get your profits out. Tedious, but could work..
Tomorrow's one mess of a lot of trades.. too many things coming out at the same time - ppi, trade balance, and then canadian trade balance. If us ppi and trade balance come out worse than expected, then that would be a good trade. Use caution, I'll be trading with a small lot.. if you don't feel like waking up to trade this one, that would be a good idea. Not worth wasting sleep over this, when you can trade single reports next week.
er...I thought currenex was an ECN, or rather, the platform connects you to ECNs...and I thought MBtrading was a retail rip off version of that.
Maybe I've got my facts wrong
I'll probably watch the CAD report tomorrow and trade EUR/CAD if I do trade...maybe I can catch CMC off guard since everyone will be watching the US data
Maybe I've got my facts wrong
I'll probably watch the CAD report tomorrow and trade EUR/CAD if I do trade...maybe I can catch CMC off guard since everyone will be watching the US data
er...I thought currenex was an ECN, or rather, the platform connects you to ECNs...and I thought MBtrading was a retail rip off version of that.
Maybe I've got my facts wrong
I'll probably watch the CAD report tomorrow and trade EUR/CAD if I do trade...maybe I can catch CMC off guard since everyone will be watching the US data
Currenex is a 'true' ECN.. you have to pay through your nose to get in.. mb's a rip off ecn as you rightly put it
EUR/CAD.. I don't know.. what if news is US-ve.. EUR might go up.. how about CAD/JPY?
Btw, I just checked with ODL Securities. They have a minimum of $25 k to open a currenex account, which is a much lower requirement than the usual 50-75k. However, they do not allow news trading.
The customer rep first asked me if I would be trading large volumes, I replied yes. Then he asked me if I trade the news.. when I replied in the positive, he just flatly stated that, that 'style' of trading can cause an account to be closed.
WTF??!!
The customer rep first asked me if I would be trading large volumes, I replied yes. Then he asked me if I trade the news.. when I replied in the positive, he just flatly stated that, that 'style' of trading can cause an account to be closed.
WTF??!!
I emailed ODL, this time explaining what I do (trade in a few seconds on news reports) and this is what I got back from a rep:
"Yes but you are getting the news before the world can change the prices
so for example the mkt is 50-52 the news comes out bullish for the euro
You buy at 52 as the actual news has not hit the street and also the
interbank have not had time to move the rate to 70-72 , its only the odd
second
You simply sell at 70 and make 18 pips but the bank have simply lost 18
given away , no view or expertise , they have no possibility to get
cover the deal they simply give u 18 pips
Why would they do that "
Do you guys find this ironic? Ironic that all these forex retailers claim to make money on the spread, plus commission (for currenex) on certain volumes.. and on top of that.. they don't want customers to make any money? Why the heck would I want to sign up with them then?
That's like me offering you medical insurance.. you have to pay $300 every month, you have to pay the deductible.. AND you have to eventually pay the entire hospital bill simply because the hospital changed their policies or can't honor your insurance. Totally fraudulent, don't you guys agree?
"Yes but you are getting the news before the world can change the prices
so for example the mkt is 50-52 the news comes out bullish for the euro
You buy at 52 as the actual news has not hit the street and also the
interbank have not had time to move the rate to 70-72 , its only the odd
second
You simply sell at 70 and make 18 pips but the bank have simply lost 18
given away , no view or expertise , they have no possibility to get
cover the deal they simply give u 18 pips
Why would they do that "
Do you guys find this ironic? Ironic that all these forex retailers claim to make money on the spread, plus commission (for currenex) on certain volumes.. and on top of that.. they don't want customers to make any money? Why the heck would I want to sign up with them then?
That's like me offering you medical insurance.. you have to pay $300 every month, you have to pay the deductible.. AND you have to eventually pay the entire hospital bill simply because the hospital changed their policies or can't honor your insurance. Totally fraudulent, don't you guys agree?
Core PPI stayed the same, but i jumped in on the trade balance report (although the deviation was small, and also.. the regular ppi was up by a bit) Made 7 pips on currenex.
Anyone traded CAD?
Anyone traded CAD?
- Status