Anyone here using an OWC Thunderbay enclosure?

[Bryan Bowler]

I'm going with the Thunderbay 4 RAID 5 Edition. I think I've narrowed down my choice of storage to either 16 TB or 20 TB. Accounting for how RAID 5 works and also the formatting of the drives themselves, the 16 TB option would give me 11 TB of storage and the 20 TB option would give me 13.8 TB of storage.

And then when you factor in the unwritten rule of never exceeding 75% of a hard drive's space if you want to maintain fast I/O speeds, then effectively, I would need to stay within 8.25 TB (for the 16 TB option) or 10.35 TB (for the 20 TB option) to maintain the ultra-fast speeds.

Have I done my homework correctly?

And last question: historically, have any of you seen the Thunderbay on sale over the Black Friday period? My new 5K iMac arrives on Monday and I hate to wait another 5 weeks for my RAID array, but I'm willing to do so if I can get it on a good sale. Thoughts?

Thanks for the help!
Bryan

 

[Bryan Bowler]

I'm going with the Thunderbay 4 RAID 5 Edition. I think I've narrowed down my choice of storage to either 16 TB or 20 TB. Accounting for how RAID 5 works and also the formatting of the drives themselves, the 16 TB option would give me 11 TB of storage and the 20 TB option would give me 13.8 TB of storage.

And then when you factor in the unwritten rule of never exceeding 75% of a hard drive's space if you want to maintain fast I/O speeds, then effectively, I would need to stay within 8.25 TB (for the 16 TB option) or 10.35 TB (for the 20 TB option) to maintain the ultra-fast speeds.

Have I done my homework correctly?

And last question: historically, have any of you seen the Thunderbay on sale over the Black Friday period? My new 5K iMac arrives on Monday and I hate to wait another 5 weeks for my RAID array, but I'm willing to do so if I can get it on a good sale. Thoughts?

Thanks for the help!
Bryan

Just a quick bump to see if any fellow forum members can offer any advice. All I really need to know is if I've done the calculations correctly for the hard drive space. And hey, if someone can chime in on whether or not they've seen Thunderbays on sale at Black Friday, that would be great too.

Thanks!
Bryan

 

[robgendreau]

I've got a Thunderbay 2; bought it as a bare enclosure.

It's fine, but the fan was ticking and I had to repair that by moving some wire around.

The case comes without any brackets for the drives, so kinda fiddly to get them screwed in. And no bracket adapter for 2.5" drives, if you wanna use those. They sell brackets separately for way too much money. Sort of lame in a device that costs this much.

I am currently running in independent mode. The drives are supposed to spin down and go off if the computer is asleep; I got "improperly ejected" messages a couple of times after sleep however. I disable nap time or whatever it's called, and had no issues since. IIRC some applications might try to access a drive and cause issues like this; I've experienced it with TM externals in Mavericks.

Fan noise is pretty minimal, but that's very subjective. On my unit the fan is only held in by a couple of pop tabs and could probably be replaced.

 

[adww12321]

follow-up on fan replacement in thunder bay 4

Just to follow up in case anyone cares,

As an experiment i replaced the stock fan with a Noctua NF-B9, and used the "ultra low noise" setting on the fan (with the provided cable) to spin at 600RPM @ 7db -- i.e., effectively silent.

It is keeping two SSDs in RAID0 at 95F, even when stressed (the SSDs are rated up to 170F.)

So... I'm guessing OWC wouldn't approve of this fan for general use, but if you are only using SSDs, it seems to me that this would work, if silence is your bag.

 

[scottomfg]

Just to follow up in case anyone cares,

As an experiment i replaced the stock fan with a Noctua NF-B9, and used the "ultra low noise" setting on the fan (with the provided cable) to spin at 600RPM @ 7db -- i.e., effectively silent.

It is keeping two SSDs in RAID0 at 95F, even when stressed (the SSDs are rated up to 170F.)

So... I'm guessing OWC wouldn't approve of this fan for general use, but if you are only using SSDs, it seems to me that this would work, if silence is your bag.

addww12321,

Thanks so much for sharing your experience. I received mine Monday and the fan is super loud--at least twice as loud as my old 4,1 Mac Pro at idle. I'm very disappointed in OWC: 1) Their website specifically says the fan is extra quiet, and they also had DigLloyd post that they progressed through three fans to get a very quiet one (which can't possibly be true) and 2) there is no excuse to use cheapo part in such an expensive product, this Noctua one you mention likely would cost OWC no more than $8 wholesale to include instead. So frustrating.

Anyway, your experience with the Noctua is very encouraging! Is this the one you bought:

Noctua NF-B9 Bevelled Blade Tips SSO Bearing Fan with VCN

I've never had need to buy or install a case fan before, is it fairly straightforward? Do the connectors work right out of the box or will I have to do some splicing?

Thanks for any info you have, I really need to get the fan sound under control. That Noctua gets great reviews and actually seems to move quite a bit of air--I think it will be totally adequate for my use (2 x SSDs, and 2 x WD Green HDD, very rarely under high load).

 

[adww12321]

addww12321,

Thanks so much for sharing your experience. I received mine Monday and the fan is super loud--at least twice as loud as my old 4,1 Mac Pro at idle. I'm very disappointed in OWC: 1) Their website specifically says the fan is extra quiet, and they also had DigLloyd post that they progressed through three fans to get a very quiet one (which can't possibly be true) and 2) there is no excuse to use cheapo part in such an expensive product, this Noctua one you mention likely would cost OWC no more than $8 wholesale to include instead. So frustrating.

Anyway, your experience with the Noctua is very encouraging! Is this the one you bought:

Noctua NF-B9 Bevelled Blade Tips SSO Bearing Fan with VCN

I've never had need to buy or install a case fan before, is it fairly straightforward? Do the connectors work right out of the box or will I have to do some splicing?

Thanks for any info you have, I really need to get the fan sound under control. That Noctua gets great reviews and actually seems to move quite a bit of air--I think it will be totally adequate for my use (2 x SSDs, and 2 x WD Green HDD, very rarely under high load).

it was this one --
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608005

there's no splicing involved, the thunder bay uses the regular 3-pin connector. the fan comes with several cables, you pick the one you want to use (the cables cause the fan to run at different speeds -- i chose super-slow, you may need faster.)

the enclosure is easy to open up, two screws to get the fan out, four to unhook the fan from the bracket. that's it!

 

[scottomfg]

it was this one --
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608005

there's no splicing involved, the thunder bay uses the regular 3-pin connector. the fan comes with several cables, you pick the one you want to use (the cables cause the fan to run at different speeds -- i chose super-slow, you may need faster.)

the enclosure is easy to open up, two screws to get the fan out, four to unhook the fan from the bracket. that's it!

Thanks for the quick reply, and for the great news. Yep, that one is the same product number as the one from Amazon, so I just ordered it to arrive on Tuesday. Can't wait. With the current fan, the air coming out the back is always cool/room temperature, so I don't think I need a crazy amount of cooling. Thanks again!

 

[WilliamG]

Great thread and info, thanks guys! I'm in the market for a 4-5 bay enclosure, and this OWC Thunderbay 4 has caught my eyes. It's just for my media center, though, so it seems a bit... overkill, but I can't find anything else more reasonably priced.

I have SoftRAID 5 already, so that's taken care of. Just would like a high-quality USB 3 or Thunderbolt 1/2 enclosure.

Any suggestions?

Otherwise, I may just suck it up and buy the OWC (and replace the fan, if necessary).

Thanks!

 

[mjw1999]

Ive just Received my Thunderbay 4 and have decided to go RAID 0 as all the advice on the net seems to be always backup any RAID you use regardless of if its RAID 0,1,5, so i figured why bother with Raid 5 at all if i still need to backup to protect my files.
This leads me to my question. If i am to Setup RAID 0 is there any point in purchasing SoftRAID 5 or should i just stick to Disk Utility and save myself £120/$180.
Is there much to be gained. I have used the evaluation of SoftRAID 5 and the performance compared to Disk Utility SEEMS same?
Thanks
Mike

 

[joema2]

....always backup any RAID....so i figured why bother with Raid 5 at all if i still need to backup to protect my files...

If any single drive in a 4-drive RAID0 fails, you lost everything and must reload -- from the last backup, whenever that was. For an 8TB array, it might take about a work day to reload, so you lost a day plus whatever data since the last backup.

Since all four drives must work for RAID0, the probability of a failure is greater than 4x a single drive (I don't remember the exact probability equation for this).

With RAID5, the array just keeps working if a drive fails. You replace the drive and it rebuilds, and you still keep working (at a lower I/O performance rate). IOW it avoids the downtime, PLUS you avoid losing data since the last backup, even if that's only 15 min.

I ran two-drive RAID0 for years -- it worked pretty well, but I had to reload from backup several times over the years. With four-drive RAID0 the chance of a failure would be considerably greater.

 

[mjw1999]

Thanks for the reply.
However i think you misunderstood my question a little.
I was asking what the benefits of using a piece of software called "SoftRAID version 5.04" vs "Disk Utility". OCW recommends using "SoftRAID version 5.04" with the ThunderBay 4, However I don't want to waste the £120/$180 it cost's if i don't need it
Thanks
Mike

 

[WilliamG]

Thanks for the reply.
However i think you misunderstood my question a little.
I was asking what the benefits of using a piece of software called "SoftRAID version 5.04" vs "Disk Utility". OCW recommends using "SoftRAID version 5.04" with the ThunderBay 4, However I don't want to waste the £120/$180 it cost's if i don't need it
Thanks
Mike

You don't *need* to use SoftRAID if doing RAID 0 or RAID 1. Disk Utility supports those at a very, very base level. Apple's RAID implementation hasn't seen any updates in years, though, and doesn't warn you if a disk is dying like SoftRAID does (and did, for me). For RAID 5, you'll need SoftRAID. Right now I'm using SoftRAID in RAID 1, since Disk Utility is more barebones than I can stand.

I'd like to move to a RAID 5 setup, but hoping that the Thunderbay goes on sale over Thanksgiving so I can do it a little more tidily than individual drives in individual enclosures, which I have going on right now, sadly.

 

[mjw1999]

You don't *need* to use SoftRAID if doing RAID 0 or RAID 1. Disk Utility supports those at a very, very base level. Apple's RAID implementation hasn't seen any updates in years, though, and doesn't warn you if a disk is dying like SoftRAID does (and did, for me). For RAID 5, you'll need SoftRAID. Right now I'm using SoftRAID in RAID 1, since Disk Utility is more barebones than I can stand.

I'd like to move to a RAID 5 setup, but hoping that the Thunderbay goes on sale over Thanksgiving so I can do it a little more tidily than individual drives in individual enclosures, which I have going on right now, sadly.

I think it worth the money in this case as its already shown a brand new 4tb drive as having bad sectors while I've been using the evaluation.
Is there anywhere cheaper to purchase SoftRAID version 5 as i just think the $180 is a bit steep?

Thanks Again.

 

[WilliamG]

I think it worth the money in this case as its already shown a brand new 4tb drive as having bad sectors while I've been using the evaluation.
Is there anywhere cheaper to purchase SoftRAID version 5 as i just think the $180 is a bit steep?

Thanks Again.

I don't believe so. If you buy the Thunderbay 4 enclosure WITH SoftRAID, it's a $120 up-charge from OWC vs the enclosure by itself. That's a good deal, as far as I'm concerned.

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/TB2SRKIT0GB/

I'm not sure how long OWC will keep that pricing, since it's been that way since SoftRAID was $129 by itself a while back. I suspect their pricing will increase to go along with the increased licensing cost of the software.

FYI, SoftRAID's support is top-notch. I emailed them a ton of times with questions prior to and after purchase, and the response times and responses themselves were always helpful. At one point it felt like I was having a real-time email conversation with them.

----------

Quick question: Does the Thunderbay 4 let the drives go to sleep correctly in OS X? I don't want the disks running 24/7 like some enclosures do...

And another quick question: Are the LEDs dimmable, or very bright?

 

[adww12321]

Great thread and info, thanks guys! I'm in the market for a 4-5 bay enclosure, and this OWC Thunderbay 4 has caught my eyes. It's just for my media center, though, so it seems a bit... overkill, but I can't find anything else more reasonably priced.

I have SoftRAID 5 already, so that's taken care of. Just would like a high-quality USB 3 or Thunderbolt 1/2 enclosure.

Any suggestions?

Otherwise, I may just suck it up and buy the OWC (and replace the fan, if necessary).

Thanks!

I've only been using mine for a week, but in a RAID0 configuration it has been rock-solid so far.

And once I replaced the fans, silent too. I could not find any other thunderbolt enclosure that met the criteria of having 4-bays and an easy-to-replace fan.

 

[WilliamG]

I've only been using mine for a week, but in a RAID0 configuration it has been rock-solid so far.

And once I replaced the fans, silent too. I could not find any other thunderbolt enclosure that met the criteria of having 4-bays and an easy-to-replace fan.

Yeah I think I may suck it up and buy it. It's just one fan, easily replaced with that 600rpm-set one linked earlier, so I should be good. Thanks for all the info in this thread.

 

[WilliamG]

Bleh... it's late and I'm weak. Just ordered the Thunderbay 4 and the Noctua NF-B9 Bevelled Blade Tips SSO Bearing Fan with VCN from Amazon.

 

[thetoness]

I am looking at getting the OWC Thunderbay 4 with 4 SSD's. I would like to use Raid 0. Should I be worried that the one of the SSDs will fail like I would with a hard drive array? I ask this because I would prefer not to purchase Softraid 5 if it isn't necessary. Also, the SSD Raid 0 array would be constantly backed up to Time Machine.
Thank you for your comments and thoughts.

 

[hfg]

I am looking at getting the OWC Thunderbay 4 with 4 SSD's. I would like to use Raid 0. Should I be worried that the one of the SSDs will fail like I would with a hard drive array? I ask this because I would prefer not to purchase Softraid 5 if it isn't necessary. Also, the SSD Raid 0 array would be constantly backed up to Time Machine.
Thank you for your comments and thoughts.

It is all about recovery time! You need a backup regardless of whether you use the SSDs in RAID-0 or RAID-5. However, in the event of failure with RAID-0 you will have to reload the entire array from your backup before you can continue working. That could take awhile. With RAID-5, you can continue working, albeit somewhat slower, until you replace the failed device which will at that time rebuild the array.

You access times will be faster with 4 SSD RAID-0 than with 4 SSD RAID-5.

And yes ... SSDs can fail too.

 

[joema2]

I am looking at getting the OWC Thunderbay 4 with 4 SSD's. I would like to use Raid 0. Should I be worried that the one of the SSDs will fail like I would with a hard drive array? I ask this because I would prefer not to purchase Softraid 5 if it isn't necessary. Also, the SSD Raid 0 array would be constantly backed up to Time Machine.

Yes SSDs can fail just like a HDD, except unlike a HDD they often give no advance warning. Reliability studies vary a lot depending on the exact SSD and HDD but in general SSDs are "more reliable", not "totally reliable".

Using any drive (SSD or HDD) in RAID0 multiplies the likelihood of a total drive failure since a failure on any single drive kills the entire array.

One study found the annual failure rate on SSDs was about 1.5%, vs HDDs at 5%. To calculate aggregate failure probability of an n-drive array:

1-(1-r)^n, where:

r=failure probability in %
n=number of drives in array

So for an SSD with 1.5% annual failure rate:

1-(1-.015)^4 = 5.86% annual failure probability on 4-drive array

Individual SSD drives are very fast, so I'm not sure how much you gain in real world applications by going to RAID0. You certainly lose a significant amount of reliability.

It might therefore seem having the drives in a single big JBOD (aka concatenated, aka spanned) array would provide adequate performance without the reliability hit of RAID0. However -- recoverability of a JBOD array from a single-drive failure depends entirely on the filesystem and array used. In some cases losing a single drive from a JBOD array is as bad as losing one from RAID0. If recovery from a single-drive JBOD failure is time consuming or requires special techniques, it may be of no more practical benefit than just running RAID0.

 

[xgman]

It's fine, but the fan was ticking and I had to repair that by moving some wire around.

The case comes without any brackets for the drives, so kinda fiddly to get them screwed in. And no bracket adapter for 2.5" drives, if you wanna use those. They sell brackets separately for way too much money. Sort of lame in a device that costs this much.

agreed with that.

 

[Bryan Bowler]

Thanks for all of the information and opinions! I'm looking at buying a Thunderbay 4 RAID 5, so this discussion has been really useful. Keep those opinions and observations coming!

Thanks,
Bryan

 

[WilliamG]

Just got my Thunderbay 4 today, along with the Noctua fan as suggested. As a preliminary test, I popped in one of my Seagate 5TB disks, and fired it up. Connected to my new iMac 5K, the speeds are very good - 180MB/s read/write. I need to grab my other three 5TB disks and see how it works in RAID 5 with SoftRAID 5, but so far, so good.

Some observations:

1.) Since the LEDs are behind the metal grille on the front, it's easy to tape them up before putting the front grille on (which just has plastic cut-outs for the light to come through). So aesthetics-wise, this is not an issue to cover the LEDs with black tape if you don't like blue or green LEDs (e.g. if you're like me!).

2.) The front grille is quite tight to remove, but this - as seen from some OWC YouTube videos, is normal. You put the key in, turn to unlock, and then kind of "drag" the front grille off with the key as your handle.

3.) I'm really hoping drive sleep works correctly, with all drives in + SoftRAID etc, or I'll be bummed.

4.) Fan noise is there. It's not the kind of thing you'd probably notice in an office environment, but for quiet home use it's far too loud for my liking. I'll be replacing that fan with the Noctua and seeing how I feel there.

Will report back later when it's fully set up, but those are at least my initial impressions..

*edit*

Just got the Noctua fan installed with the "blue" wire (1000rpm). Absolutely dead silent, now. What a tremendous fan! Not sure I've ever heard a fan so quiet. Even with my ear a few inches from the Thunderbay 4 I can't hear anything! Great recommendation...

Have to head out for a bit, but I'll resume the build later, and see how it gets on with SoftRAID 5 with 4x 5TB Seagates! Updates later!

 

[joema2]

...Have to head out for a bit, but I'll resume the build later, and see how it gets on with SoftRAID 5 with 4x 5TB Seagates! Updates later!

Thanks for all the testing. I have a Promise Pegasus R4 in RAID5 I'd like to compare. When you have time let me know what tests you have and we can post our results.

There's a lot of interest in the Thunderbay 4 and SoftRAID combo. If it delivers about the same perf. as something like a Pegasus R4, why not get the less expensive unit?

 

[hfg]

Windows with ThunderBay??

Is anyone running Windows / BootCamp with the ThunderBay IV?

I am having problems with Window crashes when the ThunderBay does something about 1 minute after Windows 8.1 loads in any of these system configurations:

1 - Window's in BootCamp on internal iMac SSD drive
2 - Window's on external Thunderbolt SSD
3 - Window's SSD mounted in one of the ThunderBay IV bays.

If the ThunderBay IV is turned off (except #3 above), there are NO problems with the Windows installation.