anyone sober?

[Brize]

The phrase 'right-minded' used earlier by Brize also smacks of judgemental tut-tutting.

Not at all: I used that phrase partly as a rhetorical device, and partly to identify those for whom complicity in the suffering of others would be unacceptable. A loaded statement undoubtedly, but one based demonstrably on empirical observation, rather than a perceived moral superiority.

I have more respect for those who say they don't use drugs because they say they want to healthy, sharp and focused.

Are you inferring that those who argue against drugs for ethical reasons are in fact operating a hidden agenda, born out of a latent conservatism? Certainly, the ethical argument proffered above does have a robustness that leaves it susceptible to hijacking by the right, but that's not the case here.

As I intimated in an earlier post, there's a discourse employed by habitual drug users that serves to deflect scrutiny of their lifestyle by labeling their critics as conservative, reactionary, uptight, etc. This is a fairly transparent defence mechanism, but one that serves its purpose well by glossing over the underlying issues.

The disappointing thing is that most of those engaged in this practice self-identify as progressive, and so we end up with the absurd situation where the same people are buying wraps of cocaine and fair-trade coffee. This duality is seemingly either lost on those involved, or else represents something that's deeply uncomfortable to confront.

 

[mactastic]

Never really got into drugs either, I simply don't like myself under the influence, plus they mess up your timing in combat...

(I'm a martial artist type)

We used to beg our instructor to show us what he knew about Drunken Chinese Boxing. Fantastic stuff. Although you're right; being the soberest person in a fight is usually to your advantage. But if the guy you're fighting happens to be a hell of a lot drunker than you are, it's not so bad.

 

[fklehman]

I smoke 2-3 cuban cigars a year and drink 1-2 glasses of wine and 1-2 beers over the course of each week. Sometimes I imbibe more on a Saturday night.

 

[doctor pangloss]

We were somewhere around Barstow on the edge of the desert when the drugs began to take hold. I remember saying something like "I feel a bit lightheaded; maybe you should drive. . . ." And suddenly there was a terrible roar all around us and the sky was full of what looked like huge bats, all swooping and screeching and diving around the car, which was going about a hundred miles an hour with the top down to Las Vegas.—

Every now and then when your life gets complicated and the weasels start closing in, the only cure is to load up on heinous chemicals and then drive like a bastard from Hollywood to Las Vegas ... with the music at top volume and at least a pint of ether.

As your attorney I advise you to tell me where you put the goddamn mescaline.

I always drive properly. A bit fast, perhaps, but always with consummate skill and a natural feel for the road that even cops recognize. No cop was ever born who isn't a sucker for a finely-executed hi-speed Controlled Drift all the way around one of those cloverleaf freeway interchanges.

As your attorney, it is my duty to inform you that it is not important that you understand what I'm doing or why you're paying me so much money. What's important is that you continue to do so.

There was madness in any direction, at any hour. If not across the Bay, then up the Golden Gate or down 101 to Los Altos or La Honda... You could strike sparks anywhere. There was a fantastic universal sense that whatever we were doing was right, that we were winning.... And that, I think, was the handle --- that sense of inevitable victory over the forces of Old and Evil. Not in any mean or military sense; we didn't need that. Our energy would simply prevail. There was no point in fighting --- on our side or theirs. We had all the momentum; we were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave...

If you can't relate a little to some of this you just haven't been "there" yet!

 

[dops7107]

Dangerously close to holier-than-thou moralising there... many people use the same words when discussing abortion.

Well, as efoto points out above, ethics are indeed personally defined; my last statement simply says that you are still free to do whatever you like to your body and it is up to you whether you think it is morally acceptable. It isn't black and white, but I am simply asking people to reflect on the implications of their lifestyle choices. Didn't this start from a Bill Hicks quote along the lines of no harm to others?

I have more respect for those who say they don't use drugs because they say they want to healthy, sharp and focused.

That's a fairly obvious side-benefit which I should hope would be the main reason for avoiding drugs - give me some credit.

 

[efoto]

That's a fairly obvious side-benefit which I should hope would be the main reason for avoiding drugs - give me some credit.

My main reason is legality not health. If marijuana was legal I would smoke it. If coke was legal, I'd probably take a line every so often, but less than I would smoke mj.

Although there are no health benefits (that I know of ) to partaking in drugs like pot/coke/heroin/whatever, there are adverse effects, some I am willing to deal with to have a nice feeling, if they were legal.

 

[iJon]

Although there are no health benefits (that I know of )

True, you probably don't get any healthier over time with pot but many people will advocate it's medicine capabilities. It even gets better if you vaporize it or eat it, then you don't have to worry about your lungs

jon

 

[efoto]

True, you probably don't get any healthier over time with pot but many people will advocate it's medicine capabilities. It even gets better if you vaporize it or eat it, then you don't have to worry about your lungs

jon

No doubt there are some benefits, however I don't think they are health benefits really. I guess it's hard to qualify because it helps heal a given problem but can cause other problems....anyway though. Even other drugs have some positives, after all wasn't heroin used in low dosage pre-morphin for severe pain circumstances?

If you eat mj, well that would be the great brownie days

 

[iJon]

No doubt there are some benefits, however I don't think they are health benefits really. I guess it's hard to qualify because it helps heal a given problem but can cause other problems....anyway though. Even other drugs have some positives, after all wasn't heroin used in low dosage pre-morphin for severe pain circumstances?

If you eat mj, well that would be the great brownie days

Yeah, I understand where your getting at, I was trying to make the same point in my post above. As for morphine, they still use it. Back when I was in the hospital couple years back they had me on a morphine drip, felt wonderful.

jon

 

[efoto]

Yeah, I understand where your getting at, I was trying to make the same point in my post above. As for morphine, they still use it. Back when I was in the hospital couple years back they had me on a morphine drip, felt wonderful.

jon

I realize they still use morphine. I was stating/asking if they used heroin back in the day before morphine or if that was simply a tail I heard. It basically stated that heroin was used in a medicinal doses as a pain reliever pre-morphine days. Can anyone support/destroy that claim???

 

[devilot]

I realize they still use morphine. I was stating/asking if they used heroin back in the day before morphine or if that was simply a tail I heard. It basically stated that heroin was used in a medicinal doses as a pain reliever pre-morphine days. Can anyone support/destroy that claim???

Yes that was the case... morphine is (I think) refined in a different and obviously purer method (purer in order for it to be legally used, I would hope ) so prior to that I'm sure opiates were used in different forms.

 

[efoto]

Yes that was the case... morphine is (I think) refined in a different and obviously purer method (purer in order for it to be legally used, I would hope ) so prior to that I'm sure opiates were used in different forms.

Woo fricken hoo, send me back to those days and break my leg

I am assuming they would give you a take-home prescription to slowly ween you off of the medication, if not then no dice.

 

[Blue Velvet]

Woo fricken hoo, send me back to those days and break my leg

I am assuming they would give you a take-home prescription to slowly ween you off of the medication, if not then no dice.

No dice. Was on morphine for 4 or 5 days after surgery recently... it came from a drip into a line in my forearm. I pressed a handheld button when the pain became too much which was attached to a device that administered it -- it was a battery-powered digital device that measured exactly how much had been taken over a 48 hour period so that you couldn't OD...

Besides, it was a great painkiller but lousy recreational drug. The most disturbing thing about it was the hallucinations when you closed your eyes. Not fun trippy visuals but more disturbing and disorientating.

It was the kind of thing that you actually wanted to wean yourself off from and it was a relief when the pain team came round to ask me if it was OK to remove the line and device.

 

[Lau]

am assuming they would give you a take-home prescription to slowly ween you off of the medication, if not then no dice.

I'm sure I read somewhere that taking drugs such as morphine when you're in a huge amount of pain (such as when suffering from cancer, after surgery, severely injured, etc) that your body uses the drug differently. The researchers found that people were far less likely to get addicted or for their bodies to be damaged by the drug, because their bodies used it more efficiently to deal with the pain. So I wonder if you're less likely to need 'weaning off' as you're less likely to be addicted in the first place.

I (very fortunately) have no experience of this, I read it a while back. Thought it was interesting though.

 

[darkwing]

Hmm, although your input is much appreciated darkwing, 6 posts in a row might be a little much (Edit: I stand corrected, 7 posts)

If you have a lot to say, either write a novel like some of us do (me ) or answer a few question in the same reply. You can have more than one quote in your reply, so don't shy away from that.

Sorry, efoto. I'll keep that in mind next time.

hmm, guess you don't know much about nutrasweet and other fake sugar substitutes eh?

What I prefer is splenda. It's probably the best of the lot. I looked up how they made that stuff, and it's neat.

If it's acceptance was so widespread, why were there enough people against alcohol to get a constitutional amendment passed against it? There had to be at least a sizable group opposed to alcohol in order to get their way.

Were there a lot of people against it? If that were true, why'd they repeal it? I understood from my history classes that it was rammed down our throats by government types who "know better than you do."

How many crimes are committed under the influence of alcohol -- a completely legal drug? So you can't tell me that it's the illegality of the drugs that are causing people to commit crimes. People commit crimes over perfectly legal things all the time too.

Remember, the booze or the drugs are only as bad as the people using them. Should we punish all gun owners because a few of them commit crimes? Then why punish all drug users because a few of them are complete jackasses?

From a purely libertarian standpoint, I've often said that a "happy medium" might be to legalize if those who want to do drugs agree to opt out of any form of subsidized health care whatsoever, and keep it to their own private property/establishments. This way, those who choose to use can do so, and those who don't do it can feel like they aren't having their economic freedom violated. Everybody wins.

Aren't crimes committed while people are under the influence part of what parents lecture their kids not to drink?

And taking a substance to alter your state of mind has nothing to do with morality at all...

After seeing what some substances can do to people, should the government condone the behavior?

"Here is my final point. About drugs, about alcohol, about pornography and smoking and everything else. What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I f*ck, what I take into my body -- as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

This is the problem. If people do drugs, they damage their body. This causes them to need more medical treatment later on in the future, which puts a strain on my insurance costs or my tax dollars, depending on how generous the taxpayers are. You may not be physically harming me, but you are taking away my economic freedom.

Are you inferring that those who argue against drugs for ethical reasons are in fact operating a hidden agenda, born out of a latent conservatism? Certainly, the ethical argument proffered above does have a robustness that leaves it susceptible to hijacking by the right, but that's not the case here.

As I intimated in an earlier post, there's a discourse employed by habitual drug users that serves to deflect scrutiny of their lifestyle by labeling their critics as conservative, reactionary, uptight, etc. This is a fairly transparent defence mechanism, but one that serves its purpose well by glossing over the underlying issues.

What's so funny about labeling critics of drug use as "conservative" is they forget that many conservative thinking types (about how they want to see the world be, or how they vote, etc) are also abusing substances. It seems to me that sex and substance abuse are global issues, affecting everyone religious, non-religious, conservative, liberal, black, white, and everything else in between.

True, you probably don't get any healthier over time with pot but many people will advocate it's medicine capabilities. It even gets better if you vaporize it or eat it, then you don't have to worry about your lungs

The main benefit of pot comes from the THC. This is what allows cancer patients to keep food down, etc. The problem is that the notion of medical marijuana is flawed because there are products on the market which allow you to breathe in THC. It's been synthesized. There is no more need for medical marijuana. Of course, most people who claim to need medical marijuana just have "headaches"

 

[efoto]

Sorry, efoto. I'll keep that in mind next time.

It isn't such a huge deal, I just wanted to point it out so some important minds don't come crashing down on you. Especially when you are "new" to the forums a lot of users assume you are gunning for an avatar when you post in strings like that. It will come with time and you will also gain respect if you let it come naturally. We all double-post from time to time, but in general it's better to combine a few ideas to one than to answer each individually.

Again, not trying to sound all high and mighty, just trying to point something out.

 

[devilot]

OT alert!

What I prefer is splenda. It's probably the best of the lot. I looked up how they made that stuff, and it's neat.

My aunt and uncle (she's a researcher at the pharmacy dept. at USC and my uncle is a professor and head of the pharmacy dept. at USC) also use and encourage the use of Splenda over sugar and other sugar substitutes. Eh, I have no qualms w/ taking their word.

 

[darkwing]

It isn't such a huge deal, I just wanted to point it out so some important minds don't come crashing down on you. Especially when you are "new" to the forums a lot of users assume you are gunning for an avatar when you post in strings like that. It will come with time and you will also gain respect if you let it come naturally. We all double-post from time to time, but in general it's better to combine a few ideas to one than to answer each individually.

Again, not trying to sound all high and mighty, just trying to point something out.

Actually I've never used an avatar in my life, and never will.

 

[mactastic]

Were there a lot of people against it? If that were true, why'd they repeal it? I understood from my history classes that it was rammed down our throats by government types who "know better than you do."

Is it possible that there were sizable groups on both sides?

From a purely libertarian standpoint, I've often said that a "happy medium" might be to legalize if those who want to do drugs agree to opt out of any form of subsidized health care whatsoever, and keep it to their own private property/establishments. This way, those who choose to use can do so, and those who don't do it can feel like they aren't having their economic freedom violated. Everybody wins.

Ok, but only if those who ride motorcycles without helmets, engage in free-climbing, are employed as a miner, don't wear seatbelts in cars, buy/build an experimental aircraft, play golf during a storm, skateboard, play rugby, take marital arts lessons, or engage in unprotected sex with someone they're not married to also sign said waiver. Fair enough?

Aren't crimes committed while people are under the influence part of what parents lecture their kids not to drink?

I should hope so. But do you deny that there are crimes committed by people over perfectly legal things as well?

 

[iJon]

The main benefit of pot comes from the THC. This is what allows cancer patients to keep food down, etc. The problem is that the notion of medical marijuana is flawed because there are products on the market which allow you to breathe in THC. It's been synthesized. There is no more need for medical marijuana. Of course, most people who claim to need medical marijuana just have "headaches"

Thanks to the recent Head vs Feds debate I was able to learn about all that, interesting indeed.. I agree with you but nothing is going to be cheaper than putting a seed in my backyard and waiting a couple of months. Just my opinion though.

jon

 

[darkwing]

Is it possible that there were sizable groups on both sides?


Ok, but only if those who ride motorcycles without helmets, engage in free-climbing, are employed as a miner, don't wear seatbelts in cars, buy/build an experimental aircraft, play golf during a storm, skateboard, play rugby, take marital arts lessons, or engage in unprotected sex with someone they're not married to also sign said waiver. Fair enough?


I should hope so. But do you deny that there are crimes committed by people over perfectly legal things as well?

The problem with your comparison is that these people aren't seeking permission from the government to do those things. Plus, accidents happen. You can't stop all of those. Why should I pay to keep some guy breathing who smoked for 50 years though? That's no accident.

I thought we were talking about crimes committed while under the influence, not crimes committed over something. Do you mean drug related crime like say, stealing to buy drugs, or do you mean the guy who does something stupid while high?

 

[0098386]

The reason why I don't drink is because I like to be in peak physical condition... i mean im not, but at least my body wont get any worse! seriously i'm only 19 and there are people my age with horrendous beer bellies. it just makes me sick. worse when you get girls who drink way too much who think they're still sexy with those pudding bellies sticking out. then they think they're fat and they diet when its not really fat but loose muscles 'n all that.

im really lucky to have a girlfriend who doesn't drink or smoke or do anything bad either. Its brilliant really, she's catholic and just so good hearted but dirty minded. the absolute best person for me i suppose! her mate jokingly and obviously spiked her drink once with Whiskey, she took a sip and just spat it all out but she did say she would happily drink champagne on our wedding day. same for me.
If its an occasion, like new years or a wedding I'll have champagne no problem. just a glass though.

we both speak out about public smoking too. Well, smoking on buses. we're spearheading a huge complaints drive towards our local bus services to enforce the smoking ban on buses.

about the whole "going to the pub to meet people" thing... years ago when i was meeting people at college I was like "hey, you seem alright... wanna come white water rafting this weekend?" rather than "hey lets go pub get drunk innit" like everyone else. needless to say I formed some amazing friendships and maybe have changed a couple of peoples lives. when you start doing new exciting things like that with new people you find your life can change so easily. like this girl we met, she said there was this huge river near hers and would come along if we brought a large dinghy or a few canoes and she stopped hanging around the streets and started living.
good way to live i say.

 

[slimflem]

INever been drunk or high. I honestly feel (and this is my opinion, no offense to anyone) that most of the people who do these things are unhappy in their everyday life, and I am happy. I am also capable of having plenty of fun without the use of such substances, so there's just no point in me getting involved in it.

I honestly cannot disagree with you more. I know plenty of everyday happy people that have smoked pot or done other things. Many see this no differently than getting drunk together or it's just another way for friends to get together and have a good time.

I'm done with these days, but there is nothing wrong with it unless it's wrong for you personally, which is fine.

 

[0098386]

I honestly cannot disagree with you more. I know plenty of everyday happy people that have smoked pot or done other things. Many see this no differently than getting drunk together or it's just another way for friends to get together and have a good time.

I'm done with these days, but there is nothing wrong with it unless it's wrong for you personally, which is fine.

a wise friend of mine once said, though he might have just been "forwarding it"; drugs are for people who can't handle life, and life is for people who can't handle drugs. a bit daft. but y'know. i find that true though. if my head starts to feel funny then i get panicky. i couldn't have drugs.

 

[slimflem]

a wise friend of mine once said, though he might have just been "forwarding it"; drugs are for people who can't handle life, and life is for people who can't handle drugs. a bit daft. but y'know. i find that true though. if my head starts to feel funny then i get panicky. i couldn't have drugs.

There's too much middle ground for this to be true. It's too black and white. Nothing is ever this cut and dry.