iPhone 13 Anyone with PWM issues getting the iPhone 13?

[5105973]

I’m able to use the 13 Pro. I can usually see the flicker on the other displays. Or if I can’t see it I can sort of detect it as the inability to quite focus on the screen. I can’t see it on this one and I’m focusing fine so far.

I now can’t go back to reading on my 12 Pro Max without getting dizzy so I’m definitely making the switch.

But sometimes my phone doesn’t wake from tapping so I don’t know if there’s some sort of hardware issue or a software one. Once I get that sorted I’m shipping the 12 Pro Max off.

 

[5105973]

My iPhone 13 Pro made me dizzy and nausious within minutes which would last for half an hour. Tried twice. I'm going back to my 11.

I’m so sorry to hear that, for you and @crucialstar. I had a tough time with my 12 mini and then somehow I adjusted. But for me with the mini, it was feeling an eye socket ache. I wasn’t dealing with dizziness.

I didn’t get eye strain or headaches with my 11 Pro, but the entire time I had it, I was dizzy a lot. I believe there was a connection, but with the issues each time presenting differently, I can’t say for sure.

It’s probably best for PWM sufferers to buy around the holidays when you get an extended amount of time to determine what problems there are and if they can be overcome.

 

[5105973]

For me, it started with burping + dizziness and then i’d want to puke, so it was motion sickness. As soon as I started feeling that way, I put away the phone so I didn’t use it long enough to see if i’d get a headache/migraine but I didn’t want to try either lol

Yeah not gonna lie, burping sounds unrelated EXCEPT it so happens years ago one of my boys that I babysat had gotten diagnosed with a migraine condition that manifested itself as digestive problems. I don’t remember anymore what all the symptoms were and it sounded crazy to me that his stomach had anything to do with migraines. But he had a thorough workup by his doctors and that’s what his parents were told.

Most people think of horrendous headaches when they think of “migraines”. But a lot of us migraine sufferers often don’t end up with any headaches at all. We can get all sorts of neurological disturbances besides or including headaches.

And it’s not just technology. If two people come up and talk to me at the same time I can have one that will scramble my speech. Driving with the sun shining through leafless trees in the fall and winter causes a flicker that can give me a migraine that makes me sleepy. That’s not horrible, but it means I’ll need a nap I didn’t necessarily want to take.

And there’s a certain classroom that is lit with some kind of bulbs that make it hard for one of my kids to stay awake in that class. I do miss incandescent lighting.

 

[jimmy_uk]

And there’s a certain classroom that is lit with some kind of bulbs that make it hard for one of my kids to stay awake in that class. I do miss incandescent lighting.

I'm having this light issue at my work at the moment. New led panels have been installed which are not only far too bright, but when filming with slow mo the room looks like a strob light disco! Every surface in the room is flashing as the light bounces off of it.

I cannot focus correctly on my imac anymore and it makes me feel very tired. My work colleague also feels very tired but trying to explain that I think it's the lights is a challenge as people are just not aware and then don't really want to consider it bizarrely. 🤷‍♂️🤦‍♂️

 

[Mastrociambella]

I fiddled for a few minutes in a carrier store with the iphone 13 pro max...maybe it's just my imagination, but i felt a slight eye dryness

Sigh, i was hoping "high" pwm frequency would have solved the issue for me

 

[davidd444]

I fiddled for a few minutes in a carrier store with the iphone 13 pro max...maybe it's just my imagination, but i felt a slight eye dryness

Sigh, i was hoping "high" pwm frequency would have solved the issue for me

It may be the white point, if you can reduce it to about 50 to 60 percent that may help.

 

[Taz Mangus]

But sometimes my phone doesn’t wake from tapping so I don’t know if there’s some sort of hardware issue or a software one. Once I get that sorted I’m shipping the 12 Pro Max off.

Mine does the same behavior and I can reproduce easily. There are others reporting the issue. It is a software issue. It has been reported to Apple from what I understand by the beta testers.

 

[5105973]

Mine does the same behavior and I can reproduce easily. There are others reporting the issue. It is a software issue. It has been reported to Apple from what I understand by the beta testers.

Oh thanks for the information! Great, well then I think this one is a keeper for me, then.

 

[john g.]

I am going to try the 13 mini. Want something smaller than my 11.

I could barely look at the X or XS, but have not looked at the OLED screens on the 11 Pro or any of the 12 line up.

Fingers crossed

Well, I gave it a try. Sent the 13 mini back today.

Not nearly as bad as the X series but still a no go.

Maybe I will try a pro and see if that screen is any better, but honestly I prefer the size of the mini. Too bad, it was otherwise a perfect phone for me.

Sticking with my 11.

 

[davidd444]

The pro version have a very high hz rate at 480, should be good. If not of course you can wait for the 11 refresh coming next year.

 

[daedalus1115]

The 13 pro is causing me migraine-like issues for me coming from an X, which I still have and experience no problems with. It's night and day. I got a 12 pro and that's doing the same thing. I don't know if it's PWM or what, but it's not fun.

I'd describe it as: dull headache behind my eyes that turn into dizziness, nausea and just general feeling like garbage. I tried changing every setting I could think of (limit frame rate, reduce motion, true tone, white point, brightness, etc., can't seem to work around it.

X is 100% fine.

Anyone else having this experience? Really, really sucks. Not really sure what to do about it. I just got my vision checked, going to go to a doc. But it's so weird that X is fine.

 

[cgolca]

The 13 pro is causing me migraine-like issues for me coming from an X, which I still have and experience no problems with. It's night and day. I got a 12 pro and that's doing the same thing. I don't know if it's PWM or what, but it's not fun.

I'd describe it as: dull headache behind my eyes that turn into dizziness, nausea and just general feeling like garbage. I tried changing every setting I could think of (limit frame rate, reduce motion, true tone, white point, brightness, etc., can't seem to work around it.

X is 100% fine.

Anyone else having this experience? Really, really sucks. Not really sure what to do about it. I just got my vision checked, going to go to a doc. But it's so weird that X is fine.

I also haven’t been able to tolerate any iPhone since the X until I got the 13 Pro Max. I tried multiple 13 Pro’s which gave me terrible side effects such as dizziness, nausea, and eye pain. I thought I’d try the 13 Pro Max for the heck of it and I couldn’t believe it! It feels just like I’m using the X. But I will note that I was setting up someone else’s 13 Pro Max which had a more yellow screen than mine and the text appeared fuzzy. After about 5 minutes I started feeling the same side effects as the 13 Pro. So I think it all comes down to the screens manufacturer. But I would definitely suggest giving the 13 Pro Max a try.

 

[danix84]

Yes I think you are right.
I've started to get dizziness last year with the 12 pro Max (no problem with the 12,12 pro, 12 mini).
This year I've been trying several iphone 13 pro but I cannot handle them. I feel better with the 13 pro Max but sometime I still feel some nausea.
I think that there is something related to the display manufacturer (Samsung?) because this latest months I'm not able to use any new Samsung's smartphones (Samsung Fold 3, Flip 3 5g). I don't have any problem with a galaxy s21 Ultra even if should have high PWM and Oppo o Xiaomi oled smartphones.
Some rumors reports that LG will produce iphone 13 pro max display next year, let's hope!

 

[jimmy_uk]

I'm not so sure that an LG screen instead of a Samsung display will necessarily make the difference as they are built to Apple's specifications and because the display controller + software won't change. 😞

That said it is interesting the range of responses to each of the four iPhone 13 models, but the takeaway is most PWM sensitive folk still cannot comfortably use these phones sadly. I'd almost say adding 120hz refresh rate may have made things slightly worse.

Now I'm reading that the Mini LED in the iPad 12 Pro and now the new Macbook Pro's is revealing the PWM and dithering to even more people. This had already started with people who found they couldn't comfortably use ipads and M1 laptops where PWM isn't present.

I still feel Apple, a design company first, prioritises style (looks) over function. Hardware design and colour appearance over health and usability. I appreciate Apple has to deal with the restraints of technologies and their availability, but a lot of the issues they (we) face are due to their own design choices and the pursuit of the bleeding edge.

 

[Howyalikdemapls]

I'm not so sure that an LG screen instead of a Samsung display will necessarily make the difference as they are built to Apples specifications and because the display contoller and software won't change. 😞

That said it is interesting the range of responses to each of the four iphone 13 models, but the takeaway is most PWM sensitive folk still cannot comfortably use these phones sadly. I'd almost say adding 120hz refresh rate may have made things slightly worse.

Now I'm reading that the Mini LED in the ipad 12 Pro and now the new Macbook Pro's is revealing the PWM and dithering to even more people. This had already started with people who found they couldn't comfortable use ipads and M1 laptops where PWM isn't present.

I still feel Apple, a design company first, is prioritising style (looks) over function. Hardware design and colour appearance over health and usability. I appreciate Apple has to deal with the restraints of available technologies and their availability, but alot of the issues they (we) face are due to their own design choices and the pursuit of the bleeding edge.

I totally understand them releasing OLED screens since they don’t seem to bother most people, but people who suffer from issues with OLED screens isn’t exactly a small demographic. It would be really nice if they’d figure out a way to offer a flagship product that works for us. With how much they usually emphasize accessibility, I’m kind of surprised they haven’t yet. Many people have stated they would be willing to pay the full price if they’d offer the new phones with LCD. Maybe that’s too difficult as the thickness may be different, but it would be super nice if they could figure out a way.

 

[Mr.Simple]

On the beginning Samsung Display don't use PWM for the OLED Displays on Smartphones. It's time to go back to the good old times. When it's currently not possible with the LTPO technique then Samsung/Apple should realse a good alternative with a PWM Free LCD Display for their S/Pro Models. When you luck how well the iPhone 11 has sell i don't think that for so many people a OLED Display is so important and they also fine with a nice LCD Display.

 

[jimmy_uk]

On the beginning Samsung Display don't use PWM for the OLED Displays on Smartphones. It's time to go back to the good old times. When it's currently not possible with the LTPO technique then Samsung/Apple should realse a good alternative with a PWM Free LCD Display for their S/Pro Models. When you luck how well the iPhone 11 has sell i don't think that for so many people a OLED Display is so important and they also fine with a nice LCD Display.

These companies are committed to OLED especially as Samsung and LG have stopped LCD production for their TVs. We can see this as car displays and laptops move to OLED as well. LCD will still have a place but might slowly be more expensive to source as OLED manufacturering keeps scaling up. Mini LED is not the fix as it also has PWM. We might put ours hopes on Micro LED but I will not be surprised if this also has PWM because saving power is the goal for mobile tech.

 

[kargurin]

New Pixel 6 is out.... Gonna take a look at that in the next couple days. Outside chance it doesn't cause strain.

 

[5105973]

I updated on another thread but am going back and trying to update on relevant pwm threads.

So I had thought I was okay with my 13 Pro and sent my 12 Pro Max off to Apple to complete the trade. But it made me unable to use the 12 mini I was used to using. And over the past month I kept getting hammered with a low grade headache. Then came a low grade dizziness and an overall feeling of unwellness.

I still have the 13 Pro but it is now on a shelf. As fortune would have it, my husband never closed out the phone line he was maintaining for his mother even after she passed away a couple of years ago. AT&T closed their 3g service and noticed she’s registered with an iPhone 4. They sent us a free 64 gb black iPhone XR to use on 4G. And I am now set up on that phone. I’m really happy with it. The backlight is much less harsh than the one I had on my previous XR that I traded away for an 11 Pro years ago. It’s nicer than the one on my iPhone SE2.

So I’m back on an XR. Lol it’s quite a change from a 512 gb state of the art 13 Pro yet I really don’t feel like I’m set back at all. I just have to be careful to manage my storage. But since I’m not going to be shooting cinematic Pro Res large file photos and videos, it’s okay. I’m getting along and will get along just fine. I used to think the XR was a heavy phone but after a year with the 12 Pro Max and a month with the 13 Pro it feels kind of light.

My eyes and brain feel far less beat to heck. I’m very fortunate. I’m happy I had also kept my XR cases! I even had a new one that was still in the box. I only had to buy a new screen protector.

My husband got a Pixel 6 Pro. From what I can tell of a very short time reading on it, it was really easy on my eyes. It was much easier to focus on than my Samsung s21 Ultra display. But I’m not sure yet about migraine symptoms. I have one on order for my second phone line. It’s been delayed in California for a week, though.

 

[Corncab44]

Did the 13 Pro end up being better for sensitive folks over the regular 13? I used the 13 for a bit and it immediately gave me usual pwm symptoms. But I have in the past used other OLEDs for years, namely a Galaxy s8 and never noticed a thing.

 

[siksik6]

Did the 13 Pro end up being better for sensitive folks over the regular 13? I used the 13 for a bit and it immediately gave me usual pwm symptoms. But I have in the past used other OLEDs for years, namely a Galaxy s8 and never noticed a thing.

I found the 13 have me less severs symptoms than the 13 pro, but still couldn't use it as my only phone.

I've tried the Pixel 6, 6 pro, S22 Ultra and all are unusable for me. I've just ordered a new iPhone 11 because I'm stuck with it for a while

 

[cooperbang]

Hi,

I have found some PWM measurements of iPhones and Android Phones.

iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Mini:

iPhone 13 and iPhone 13 Mini:

iPhone 13 Pro:

Pixel 6:

S22 Ultra:

Oneplus 8 Pro (DC Dimming mode activated):

 

[siksik6]

Hi,

I have found some PWM measurements of iPhones and Android Phones.

iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Mini:

View attachment 2010026



iPhone 13 and iPhone 13 Mini:
View attachment 2010027



iPhone 13 Pro:
View attachment 2010028



Pixel 6:
View attachment 2010038



S22 Ultra:
View attachment 2010042



Oneplus 8 Pro (DC Dimming mode activated):
View attachment 2010029

Where is this from please? This is certainly consistent with my experience. I can’t use any of those phones other than the 8 Pro which is absolutely fine.

 

[cooperbang]

The measurements are from ixbt.com.

Huawei P50 Pro (DC Dimming activated, PWM Frequency at 10% brightness = 1440Hz!)

Honor 50 (120Hz Refresh Rate, PWM Frequency at 10% brightness = 3800Hz!):

These phones (Honor P50 Pro and Honor 50) seem to use much higher PWM frequencies than iPhones:
For comparison: iPhone 12 -> about 240Hz, iPhone 13 -> about 480Hz

 

[asus389]

So even on 100% brightness there is flicker? Can you put up some measurements of LCD iPhones?