Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
This totally _is_ anti-competitive. Apple's own apps should present the same dialog.

Additionally, I think Apple could improve the UX by not having the user go to the Settings app but rather confirm the "Always" option inside the app, just in a subsequent dialog.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lederermc
This totally _is_ anti-competitive. Apple's own apps should present the same dialog.

Additionally, I think Apple could improve the UX by not having the user go to the Settings app but rather confirm the "Always" option inside the app, just in a subsequent dialog.
Apples’ apps do present the same dialogue. I just tried with Find my...
 
I support this change. All my location settings are either never, or while using. Only weather is always.

Sorry to bust your bubble, but weather apps are sharing your travels with others. You may think that you're protected because you're limiting surveillance to specific apps with seemingly innocent purposes, but unless you read their TOS, chances are they are collecting on the behalf of others.

https://gizmodo.com/lawsuit-accuses-weather-channel-app-of-misleading-users-1831506990
 
  • Like
Reactions: imola.zhp
By the way, the article is actually incorrect. The user is not required to use manually intervene in order to explicitly grant the “Always Allow” privilege... by design, they would be asked again at a later point. Because of this, it would be a violation of the Guidelines to ask the user to open the Settings app and forcibly grant the “Always Allow” privilege.

These complaining developers are aware of this fact, but they are being disingenuous, because they don’t like the way Apple is doing this.

Apple's intent is that the act of granting the “Always Allow” privilege should be a separate decision, and should also be as non-intrusive as possible to the user. From a development standpoint, it works like this (detailed in this WWDC 2019 video):
  1. As a developer, in your code, you should request “Always Allow” as you normally would.
  2. The user will see the new prompt which does not have the “Always Allow” option.
  3. If they grant “Allow While In Use” privileges, your app will actually be granted “provisional authorization” for the “Always Allow” privilege.
  4. The developer should now simply proceed to do the things for which they need that permission for: e.g., set up some geofences, and start monitoring for notifications, whatever.
  5. If the developer has coded their app according to the guidelines, at some point later, when an location-based event is triggered, the user will be prompted again— and this time, they’ll have the option to grant the “Allow Always” privilege, at which point the provisional authorization will be made permanent.
View attachment 853314
Thank you for a clear and concise post of the process.
 
Wow, good one. Apple can’t clamp down on these apps soon enough.

If Apple does, people had better not complain about paying a monthly subscription fee to get weather information or other similar services and entertainment.

Personally, I don't want Apple's protections if Apple doesn't allow the same degree of restrictions for its own activities. Otherwise, Apple is making it possible for them to be the sole provider of your interests. The idea that Apple anonymizes their observance of your activities is somehow benign is laughable to marketers. Marketers don't need to know who you are. They are interested in what you are (your demographic) and where you are.
 
If Apple does, people had better not complain about paying a monthly subscription fee to get weather information or other similar services and entertainment.

Personally, I don't want Apple's protections if Apple doesn't allow the same degree of restrictions for its own activities. Otherwise, Apple is making it possible for them to be the sole provider of your interests. The idea that Apple anonymizes their observance of your activities is somehow benign is laughable to marketers. Marketers don't need to know who you are. They are interested in what you are (your demographic) and where you are.
I’ll delete the weather app from my phone and I actually have location services turned off for the weather app.

However, Apple does adhere to its guidelines. Can you name an app that doesn’t? Don’t bother with Find my, because turning location services off cripples the interface part of the app.

Find my, reminders and maybe one or two others are system level services and can’t be turned off.

I’ll trust Apple doesn’t go farther than this with my data and adheres to its own TOS.
 
Last edited:
The stock weather app?

It's not clear. Apple's TOS doesn't prohibit Apple from monitoring your usage of the app. Since Apple doesn't have its own meteorological tools, it has to partner with someone who does. But who is it? Is it the Weather Channel TV network? Or is it IBM, who purchased the weather channel's IP, including other weather forecasting products (I use Weather Underground, a crowd-sourced weather tool served by IBM). If the partner is the TV network, it would understandably like data that would let it improve its own products. Regardless which partner it is, what are the terms of the deal?
 
It's not clear. Apple's TOS doesn't prohibit Apple from monitoring your usage of the app. Since Apple doesn't have its own meteorological tools, it has to partner with someone who does. But who is it? Is it the Weather Channel TV network? Or is it IBM, who purchased the weather channel's IP, including other weather forecasting products (I use Weather Underground, a crowd-sourced weather tool served by IBM). If the partner is the TV network, it would understandably like data that would let it improve its own products. Regardless which partner it is, what are the terms of the deal?
I’ll leave it to the reader to dig into it.
419BB025-C2B7-4087-8060-E369CC78BAA0.png
 
Ugh, more Apple knows best BS. This is going to be such a pain in the butt for my deployment of iOS devices.
For ll of you saying that it's simply one trip to settings, take a second and think about what use cases are going on outside of your ignorant little world.
I have hundreds of iPhones deployed, and many people do NOT know how to use a smartphone. Apple constantly takes user convenience away these days, all in the name of privacy and security, meanwhile it is getting more and more inconvenient to use their devices.
Now I'm going to have to write up documentation explaining how to change this setting as location services are critical to some of our in-house apps (tracking GPS for mileage purposes so our agents can get paid for their travel, for example).
FU Apple and your nannying ways. Can't wait to move my deployment over to Android.
 
Ugh, more Apple knows best BS. This is going to be such a pain in the butt for my deployment of iOS devices.
For ll of you saying that it's simply one trip to settings, take a second and think about what use cases are going on outside of your ignorant little world.
I have hundreds of iPhones deployed, and many people do NOT know how to use a smartphone. Apple constantly takes user convenience away these days, all in the name of privacy and security, meanwhile it is getting more and more inconvenient to use their devices.
Now I'm going to have to write up documentation explaining how to change this setting as location services are critical to some of our in-house apps (tracking GPS for mileage purposes so our agents can get paid for their travel, for example).
FU Apple and your nannying ways. Can't wait to move my deployment over to Android.
Can't you make these settings via MDM/Apple Configurator?
You are using Apple Configurator, I presume. You wouldn't want to manage hundreds of phones individually …
 
they don't have to play fair. they've been using private APIs that third party apps have no access to since the beginning of the app store.

They don’t have to for now. Their fortunes may change though if they continue acting like it were 2007.
 
By the way, the article is actually incorrect. The user is not required to use manually intervene in order to explicitly grant the “Always Allow” privilege... by design, they would be asked again at a later point. Because of this, it would be a violation of the Guidelines to ask the user to open the Settings app and forcibly grant the “Always Allow” privilege.

These complaining developers are aware of this fact, but they are being disingenuous, because they don’t like the way Apple is doing this.

Apple's intent is that the act of granting the “Always Allow” privilege should be a separate decision, and should also be as non-intrusive as possible to the user. From a development standpoint, it works like this (detailed in this WWDC 2019 video):
  1. As a developer, in your code, you should request “Always Allow” as you normally would.
  2. The user will see the new prompt which does not have the “Always Allow” option.
  3. If they grant “Allow While In Use” privileges, your app will actually be granted “provisional authorization” for the “Always Allow” privilege.
  4. The developer should now simply proceed to do the things for which they need that permission for: e.g., set up some geofences, and start monitoring for notifications, whatever.
  5. If the developer has coded their app according to the guidelines, at some point later, when an location-based event is triggered, the user will be prompted again— and this time, they’ll have the option to grant the “Allow Always” privilege, at which point the provisional authorization will be made permanent.
View attachment 853314

"at some point later, when an location-based event is triggered, the user will be prompted again— and this time, they’ll have the option to grant the “Allow Always” privilege"

This is not happening for my case, could you please confirm if this is happening ?
 
"at some point later, when an location-based event is triggered, the user will be prompted again— and this time, they’ll have the option to grant the “Allow Always” privilege"

This is not happening for my case, could you please confirm if this is happening ?
It could be a beta issue, probably will be fixed in the gm if that’s the reason.
 
Has anyone liked your comment? No. I wan't the apps, but I don't want them tracking me ALL OF THE TIME. Apparently so do many, many people on here. I suspect you are one of the devs. Learn from what Apple are trying to pursue and action the changes to make your app better.
Oh, not a single like.
 
I’m far from a celebrity, but I can’t imagine using Android as a celebrity and it’s out of control for privacy (lack there of). This just gives a little back to the consumer IMO, so I’m glad this is happening. As far as anticompetitive talk, it’s nor here nor there for me. As a user, I welcome this change. Granted I don’t know the whole story, so I’m speaking with the little piece of info I have.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.