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App Developers Claim Apple's iOS 13 Location Tracking Changes Are Anti-Competitive
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I cast my votes for entire household on Apple's new privacy changes in iOS. Often than not, apps default to 'Always' when the use of the app absolutely cannot quantify constant monitoring of location. Just to name some - Communication apps like WhatsApp, Banking apps, F&B apps, etc. Some of then does not even display proper options like 'Allow when using app' is missing. Some even default to 'Always' without prompting user at every app version update and I had to go through every device in my household periodically to disable it for these 'gangster-behavior' apps.
A great thing Apple is doing for the larger good of the ecosystem. Thumbs-up Apple. My household is standing by our votes with our wallet!!!
Apps that don't like it, sorry but you are out from my household's MDM-controlled list of devices' (growing yearly) allowed apps. There are plentiful of alternative apps who play nice to the ecosystem.
A great thing Apple is doing for the larger good of the ecosystem. Thumbs-up Apple. My household is standing by our votes with our wallet!!!
Apps that don't like it, sorry but you are out from my household's MDM-controlled list of devices' (growing yearly) allowed apps. There are plentiful of alternative apps who play nice to the ecosystem.
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Wrong. You have probably never used Tile then. It you lose your keys then you can get notified when found by anyone who has the app and happens to walk past them.
Only you get notified of the location. The stranger who walked by them has no clue they are there.
Great functionality which would be ruined if it didn’t always know the location of the user.
That being said, as long as there is a way to enable always on, then I don’t see why these developers are getting butt hurt. Having an extra screen when you first run the app to direct you into location services doesn’t seem that bad. Even my mother in law knows how to do that
They are butt hurt because users are now more likely to think twice about how & when their location data is being used, and why. It follows that many are then more likely to deny access. In turn, no doubt reducing revenue otherwise gained by surreptitious surveillance and the commerce of mass user data.
Is that really necessary? Is this your special place?
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So what’s wrong with having the option choice along with the others? I find it incredulous that folks on here says it’s easy to go into settings and make the choice and folks should be savvy enough to do that, but at the same time argue that the always on option should be removed because “you might accidentally select it”
....and what is an “Apple customer?” I’m an Apple customer because I want to be an “App customer” I choose (guess by implication forced) to be in the Apple system because I want to use Apps for convenience on my idevices.
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What’s exactly is the issue here?
The second a pro-consumer privacy stance is taken, these companies come out of the woodwork claiming there services are for holy and benevolent uses (oh my, how will we send emergency services to your location now?!); when in fact all they’re losing is access to a lucrative revenue stream based off selling user location data.
Bad move on Apple's part. So you download Google Maps, and what, it doesn't work in the background by default? I'd be all for adding some additional warning to the "allow always" option, but this is just user-hostile.
Edit: Seems the article is entirely wrong, so nvm.
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Edit: Seems the article is entirely wrong, so nvm.
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I'm sure you still use Windows 98.
I find it interesting that all these weeping companies wrote a (so to speak) joint letter.
Normally everyone is just trying to write a letter for its own.
Do these folks deliver their collected data to the same address?
And did that very institution ask them all to harass Cook with their ridiculous defamatory letter?
Does anyone here at MR have any idea how to make money with personal data these days? We assume how e.g. the banks or small PayBack-companies do it, but I personally don't have further knowledge in detail.
Who can enlighten me?
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Exactly. Even more so, it appears they still can get the desired access but now users will at east know they are being tracked. If they can't make it as a company without all the tracking data they need to rethink their business model. Their problem is they have gotten users to "free" that any attempts to charge will result in a significant drop in the user base; and consequently drop in valuation.
Arity is prolly the ring leader. They want it on all the time so they can try to tell if you took a dump wrong and sell that "analytics" to your HMO to boot.
There are some legit use cases where always allow needs to exist .I use Google Maps for constant location sharing with family, BY MY OWN CHOICE for example.
One of the app I use that needs always on location tracking is Microsoft’s OneDrive app. The app needs it to auto upload new pictures in my camera roll to OneDrive (OD) in the background. So I am assuming this is what is happening:
If OD is in the background & suspended, it cannot do any work unless iOS “allows” the app to do any work by “un-suspending” it. And the only way iOS does this is if an app is compiled as a “background mode” app and tells iOS which events should trigger its run.
The problem for OD (maybe for some other apps as well) is that iOS DOES NOT provide a trigger that is tied to the action of a new photo/video going to the camera roll. This means that apps like OD are forced to use completely unrelated triggers (like location tracking) to make themselves run and do any work.
So while this change is terrific, Apple really should add more finely tuned background mode reasons (and triggers) so that apps are not forced to run with always on location tracking to work around the current limitations. And this hack is unreliable in the sense that iOS will only trigger OD if there is a change in location of 500 meters or more (called “major location change”), unless I misunderstand this architecture..
If OD is in the background & suspended, it cannot do any work unless iOS “allows” the app to do any work by “un-suspending” it. And the only way iOS does this is if an app is compiled as a “background mode” app and tells iOS which events should trigger its run.
The problem for OD (maybe for some other apps as well) is that iOS DOES NOT provide a trigger that is tied to the action of a new photo/video going to the camera roll. This means that apps like OD are forced to use completely unrelated triggers (like location tracking) to make themselves run and do any work.
So while this change is terrific, Apple really should add more finely tuned background mode reasons (and triggers) so that apps are not forced to run with always on location tracking to work around the current limitations. And this hack is unreliable in the sense that iOS will only trigger OD if there is a change in location of 500 meters or more (called “major location change”), unless I misunderstand this architecture..
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What extraordinary everyday benefits/use do you have with your special upload strategy?
I'm also a photographer (iCloud) and don't have any problems that force me to knock at Microsoft's "Services" door.
Apple’s house, Apple’s rules.
This change is all in favour of users, developers got to swallow it.
Isn’t a game breaker anyway, doesn’t take a genius to enable the “hidden” location tracking options.
This change is all in favour of users, developers got to swallow it.
Isn’t a game breaker anyway, doesn’t take a genius to enable the “hidden” location tracking options.
Not sure what you mean by everyday use, but I like to have my photos backed up to my OneDrive. There is no problem with photos in iCloud, but I want a secondary location for my photos outside of Apple’s ecosystem.
I'm in 100% agreement with what Apple are doing here.
It's actually funny, that these companies don't understand (and I must imagine they are run by very intelligent people) that the very fact of coming together to put forward a complaint, whose news becomes public, plays totally into Apple's hands, and boots Apple's position on this.
What do they think the Smartphone buying public will think when they see this news? Apple should allow always tracking?
Really, by openly complaining to Apple in this way, they are totally assuring Apple will be more public about sticking to these new rules.
Well done Apple, and it would be great to see Google follow suit with Android, as, irrespective of your views re, iOS/Android, privacy to all the general public, no matter what platform should be the no.1 concern.
It's actually funny, that these companies don't understand (and I must imagine they are run by very intelligent people) that the very fact of coming together to put forward a complaint, whose news becomes public, plays totally into Apple's hands, and boots Apple's position on this.
What do they think the Smartphone buying public will think when they see this news? Apple should allow always tracking?
Really, by openly complaining to Apple in this way, they are totally assuring Apple will be more public about sticking to these new rules.
Well done Apple, and it would be great to see Google follow suit with Android, as, irrespective of your views re, iOS/Android, privacy to all the general public, no matter what platform should be the no.1 concern.
You still can do that.
Nevertheless in the Apple community, we do it more secure with Find My Friends.
Android works differently...
If you have read the article correctly, you will know that you may continue to give Google your data, but you just have to agree more explicitly.
Of course Google/Android will never see that. They would have to convert their free services into a pay service with monthly fees.
Google Maps PREMIUM, Google Translation PREMIUM, Google Search PREMIUM and so on... without advertising and without spying. But the stingy folks will never participate.
And morally, Google would have to go through an extremely long cleaning cycle from a data whore to a clean lady. Simply unrealistic.
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No it doesn't. These apps offer a slightly different service, different experience, different integration. It is anti-competitive to allow Apple's service to just track me all the time and block others from doing the same.
You do not seem to be familiar with UX. If you had any experience with App development, you would know that additional steps as clunky as these, which even involve managing settings outside your app, are going to massively impact your app's usability. A LOT of people won't turn it on out of inconvenience or fear. Even though the tracking is 100% ok and might even be the whole purpose of the app.
Apple did it wrong here. They should have made a new entitlement for which you have to apply. If granted during the app review (because bg tracking is an obvious feature of the app), you should be able to present the old-style dialog. If not, like most apps, you should have to go the new way.
We simply do not need all of these apps always tracking our location and draining our batteries. Apart from Find My which is crucial for finding lost/stolen devices.
If we choose to open the other apps, this is the point where they should be allowed to request our location.
If we choose to open the other apps, this is the point where they should be allowed to request our location.
