App Developers Claim Apple's iOS 13 Location Tracking Changes Are Anti-Competitive

[HylianKnight]

I’m not seeing the Always option at all in the Settings > Privacy > Location list of apps. Only app I let use Always for weather and I liked to have it that way.

Its there for me

 

[Morgenland]

That restricts only what the government can do.

And about government uses data collected by sub-contractees?

The NSA's top-secret black budget, obtained from Snowden by The Washington Post, exposed the successes and failures of the 16 spy agencies comprising the U.S. intelligence community, and revealed that the NSA was paying U.S. private tech companies for clandestine access to their communications networks.

Microsoft/Skype (currently they suspended P2P again), "Google" etc.

 

[cocoua]

totally agree with this new implementation as many users (as my parents) have no idea of the "allow always" option is active, while this extra steps means nothing for "pro" users

 

[Timemaster]

The issue is Apple cheats. It's own apps do not have to play by the sam rules. Google on Android own apps play by the same rules as everyone else on the device.

The other issue is Apple will not allow developers to have their apps take or even launch into the settings section. If the at least allow them to launch and navigate straight there it would be better.

 

[apolloa]

Huh, so they would just rather track you forever without you knowing then really..
This is one thing Apple does right IMO, good for them for changing the options giving users more control over who spies on them.

Although I do have to call out the hypocrisy a little with Apple handing over Siri recordings to be listened to.

 

[Morgenland]

The issue is Apple cheats. It's own apps do not have to play by the sam rules. Google on Android own apps play by the same rules as everyone else on the device.

The other issue is Apple will not allow developers to have their apps take or even launch into the settings section. If the at least allow them to launch and navigate straight there it would be better.

1. Data whores have different rules and earn their income in different ways than Apple.

2. Especially the new writers at MR stuff sometimes do not attach great importance to good journalistic processing.
Here Apple shows what they really have in mind:
https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2019/705/?time=181

 

[Timemaster]

1. Data whores have different rules and earn their income in different ways than Apple.

2. wrong. See there:
https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2019/705/?time=181

Again Apple own Apps should be required to be under the same restrictions as they put on developers. The cheating is an issue. Apple is making the case agaisted them being anti competive and abusing their power easy.
If apple refuses to play by its own rules then whst does thst say about what it thinks of them?

 

[mike090910]

A very big THANK YOU to Apple.

 

[zack793]

Honestly, those seven companies can get ****ed. Great decision by Apple.

 

[jeremiah256]

One of the app I use that needs always on location tracking is Microsoft’s OneDrive app. The app needs it to auto upload new pictures in my camera roll to OneDrive (OD) in the background. So I am assuming this is what is happening:

If OD is in the background & suspended, it cannot do any work unless iOS “allows” the app to do any work by “un-suspending” it. And the only way iOS does this is if an app is compiled as a “background mode” app and tells iOS which events should trigger its run.

The problem for OD (maybe for some other apps as well) is that iOS DOES NOT provide a trigger that is tied to the action of a new photo/video going to the camera roll. This means that apps like OD are forced to use completely unrelated triggers (like location tracking) to make themselves run and do any work.

So while this change is terrific, Apple really should add more finely tuned background mode reasons (and triggers) so that apps are not forced to run with always on location tracking to work around the current limitations. And this hack is unreliable in the sense that iOS will only trigger OD if there is a change in location of 500 meters or more (called “major location change”), unless I misunderstand this architecture..

Privacy->Location->OneDrive->Always. Using it with OneDrive and Google Photos and have never seen a photo not immediately get uploaded regardless of if I move or not.

 

[Morgenland]

Again Apple own Apps should be required to be under the same restrictions as they put on developers. The cheating is an issue. Apple is making the case agaisted them being anti competive and abusing their power easy.
If apple refuses to play by its own rules then whst does thst say about what it thinks of them?

I have analyzed the data collected by Apple in detail in my case. That cost me a day's work.
It's a lot and you can discuss it for a long time.

But there is an essential difference to non-Apple apps, which like to pass the data on to third parties if they just get a dollar for it: With Apple, the data stays with Apple. With a few exceptions ordered by court or enforced by gov authorities, which Apple is known to try to disclose comprehensively.

Why? Not necessarily just because they're more decent, but they know that from the day they act like the other hures, several of their future profit centers (based on credibility) will die: Health, finance, to name but a few.

So there are two zoos that have to be managed differently.

Last remark: You know where e.g. Skype raised his venture capital at the time? If you don't, go and find the answer. Easy for you to research...

 

[123]

We simply do not need all of these apps always tracking our location and draining our batteries.

Why do you feel entitled to tell me what I need? If you don't want an app, don't download it. But speak for yourself, thank you.

 

[jlc1978]

You presume that the apps track users [only] for nefarious purposes. Most of them don't. Would you say that people with, say, Alzheimers disease, installing the app that tracks their location so that relatives could watch after them, should not be able to easily enable tracking?

Of course, but Apple didn't remove the feature, just made it a little harder to enable. Any user savvy enough to use an iPhone for special circumstances is probably savvy enough to figure it out. In addition, developers could clearly explain what needs to be done to enable it so it's not like it's some unknown hidden feature that requires a large amount of tech savvy to use.
[doublepost=1566031995][/doublepost]

As a pilot, I want this feature to remain for my Aviation Apps so I can move between them and still have them know where they are.

It's still there, just accessed differently.

______________________________________________________________________________

On a separate note, I find the whole "users will think the app os broken" argument hyperbole. Developers know it's coming, so update your app to check if it's running on iOS 13 and what type of permissions it has and put up an appropriate screen to let users know what they need to do enable tracking.

 

[123]

because they know that from the day they act like the others, several of their future profit centers will die: Health, finance, to name but a few.

Yeah, just like Facebook. And no, most small app developers offering a useful service don't have the money to spend for PR and endless lawsuits (unlike Apple, who can easily repair any sort of reputation damage by throwing enough money at it). And they therefore don't sell the data. And don't abuse it. The whole EU data protection laws were introduced because of the big players, not the small ones.

 

[jlc1978]

And about government uses data collected by sub-contractees?

The NSA's top-secret black budget, obtained from Snowden by The Washington Post, exposed the successes and failures of the 16 spy agencies comprising the U.S. intelligence community, and revealed that the NSA was paying U.S. private tech companies for clandestine access to their communications networks.

IANAL but would venture to guess since consumers consented to data collection in the TOCs there'd be no issue with it being a search. They are receiving information from companies that obtained it with users permission, even if the users never actually read their contract when they signed it.

It's really no different, in the sense of it not being a search, than if someone would turn over data they have gotten from a third person, such as a letter sent to them, texts saying where they are etc.

 

[Morgenland]

Yeah, just like Facebook. And no, most small app developers offering a useful service don't have the money to spend for PR and endless lawsuits (unlike Apple, who can easily repair any sort of reputation damage by throwing enough money at it). And they therefore don't sell the data. And don't abuse it. The whole EU data protection laws were introduced because of the big players, not the small ones.

2 domains:
Apple's world (which Apple is of course allowed to administer itself) and the rest.

In that other world, criminal organizations such as Facebook etc. are cavorting. And as long as you're looking for rules for their world, you have to be very strict. Because you deal with unteachable criminals. And unfortunately the small, perhaps still respectable companies are then affected the same.

a) The creation of the EU data protection laws was not mainly driven by large companies, let alone Apple. In Europe, in this file, the world is partly less dictated by the demands of corporations.
b) By the way, I think it's very clever how Apple solved the problem in a customer-friendly way: https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2019/705/?time=181

 

[123]

user savvy enough to use an iPhone for special circumstances

But this isn't about "special circumstances" at all. For example, in Switzerland, you start a public transport app, "start" a trip, then use any trains, busses, trams, boats, whatever. At the end of your journey you check out. And at the end of the day you are charged for whatever tickets or day passes you needed. This is for everybody, not for "special" people with "special" circumstances. The service is there to make traveling easy. Not more complicated thanks to Apple. And yes, I trust a national railway company way more than I trust Apple whose only goal during the last couple of years seemed to be to milk and extort customers as much as they can. If anything, it should be Apple's apps who need 100 more steps to enable tracking.
[doublepost=1566033335][/doublepost]

a) The creation of the EU data protection laws was not mainly driven by large companies,

"because", not "by".

 

[ani4ani]

2 domains:
Apple's world (which Apple is of course allowed to administer itself) and the rest.

In that other world, criminal organizations such as Facebook etc. are cavorting. And as long as you're looking for rules for their world, you have to be very strict. And unfortunately the small, perhaps still respectable companies are then affected the same.

a) The creation of the EU data protection laws was not mainly driven by large companies, let alone Apple. In Europe, the world is partly less dictated by the demands of corporations.
b) By the way, I think it's very clever how Apple solved the problem in a customer-friendly way:
https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2019/705/?time=181

I dont know what is sadder, that Apple peddle this fantasy world or folks like you believe it

 

[Vjosullivan]

It's sad to see how many people assume that all app developers are dishonest, users are too stupid to choose between "always allow" and other options, and that the Apple Corporation is some sort of guardian angel fighting for your rights rather than your dollars.

 

[Morgenland]

IANAL but would venture to guess since consumers consented to data collection in the TOCs there'd be no issue with it being a search. They are receiving information from companies that obtained it with users permission, even if the users never actually read their contract when they signed it.

It's really no different, in the sense of it not being a search, than if someone would turn over data they have gotten from a third person, such as a letter sent to them, texts saying where they are etc.

I'm sure you're right from a legal point of view.
[doublepost=1566035067][/doublepost]

It's sad to see how many people assume that all app developers are dishonest, users are too stupid to choose between "always allow" and other options, and that the Apple Corporation is some sort of guardian angel fighting for your rights rather than your dollars.

Apple is fighting for our private rights. Also to get our money. So what? Sad? Is your personal problem with that a wallet issue? Let us know! If you don't like Apple, pick up your Android and be happy again! Bye!

 

[jlc1978]

But this isn't about "special circumstances" at all. For example, in Switzerland, you start a public transport app, "start" a trip, then use any trains, busses, trams, boats, whatever. At the end of your journey you check out. And at the end of the day you are charged for whatever tickets or day passes you needed. This is for everybody, not for "special" people with "special" circumstances. The service is there to make traveling easy. Not more complicated thanks to Apple.

You can still set an app to always allow. It just takes an extra step and it set. Not much different than before.

And by special circumstances I mean situations where the user wants an app to know their location for a specific reason and not just open up every app to allow tracking; adding a clear step for always allow makes it more obvious what you are allowing the app to do.

 

[Macpro2019]

App developers could stop making apps for ios then if they don’t like the change.

 

[msp3]

>Scum "developers" crying crocodile tears they can't constantly spy on their users anymore

And nothing of value was lost

 

[TrulsZK]

Users can still turn on "Always Allow" in the Privacy section of the Settings app, but it's not available by default and requires additional steps.

It is still possible to select "Always Allow", this is a step in the correct direction, Apple.
Having to use settings is no different then if you accidentally press "Don't Allow" and want to change it.

If Apple completely removed the option of "Always Allow" I agree to some extent with the Developers

 

[MacBH928]

Why are they upset? The data collection gates are wide open on the Goolag's Android system.

Apple continues to prove that you can be profitable and ethical in the tech industry