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sw1tcher

macrumors 603
Jan 6, 2004
5,577
19,695
So what? Something has to be listed first. Maybe it is based on usage or what most users are downloading?
What most users are downloading? 🤣 As far as I'm aware, Apple Maps is preinstalled on every iPhone and iPad. So who's downloading it?

When I looked to see what the top navigation apps are, Apple Maps wasn't even listed in the top 10.


nav.png
 

deevey

macrumors 65816
Dec 4, 2004
1,349
1,420
Just look at this screenshot. Apple Maps is listed before Google Maps and Waze despite having less ratings and a lower star rating overall.
I've found that overall that is NOT to the case for the majority of Apps from Email, Office Apps, Photo editing and more.

- Apple maps is #6. Search term= Navigation
- Apple maps was #3. Search term= Map
- Apple maps was #3. Search Term= Maps
- Mail is #2. Search term= Email
- Photos #10. Search term= Photo editing
- iMovie #8. Search term= Video Editing (Editor)
- iMovie #7. Search term= Video Editor
- Keynote / Pages / Numbers #22, #24, and #28. Search term= Office
- Numbers #7. Search term= Spreadsheet
- Keynote #2. Search term=Presentation
- Garageband #cant even find it under "Audio production" "DAW" "Music Creation" "Music Production" "Music Editor" etc.. - Which kinda sucks because it's actually awesome (and free).

In fact the ONLY Apple app thats showing as #1 for me is Apple Music, if you search for "Music" (makes sense as its an exact match search term) or "Music Streaming".

In the music streaming market I don't know anyone who has not decided which app they want prior to searching anyhow, and exact match terms always show first e.g. Spotify, Tidal, Pandora etc...
 
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lazyrighteye

Contributor
Jan 16, 2002
4,111
6,333
Denver, CO
Completely agree. But it would possible for Apple to open the market and still keep the platform "closed". All the brouhaha is about who's getting paid, not necessarily about Apple keeping a tight grip on what can and can't be installed (although there are those too and that would be the next target).

iOS already requires apps to be signed by Apple before they can be run. Apple could still require developers to submit their apps for approval, then sign the binary and send them back to the developer so it can be distributed anyway the developer wishes. They could even keep their vetting process in place to ensure malicious apps are denied.

To make up for lost revenue Apple could start charging for major OS upgrades again, or jack up developer fees, or start charging for developer tools. Of course this would ultimately chop small developers off at the knees. not only would there be a larger up front fee for a developer account and the developers tools, but with OS fragmentation (due to users not wanting to pay for an upgrade), they would have to support more and more versions of the OS.
100%.
Apple can/will slowly open The Garden while still putting parameters in place that can help ensure no weeds start growing. This is not a Walled–Garden-to-Weed-patch-overnight as some make it out to be. Apple still has at least two hands on the wheel.
 

Michael Scrip

macrumors 604
Mar 4, 2011
7,936
12,503
NC
If people are upset that Apple's apps appear high on the list in the App Store... they must be furious to know that many Apple apps also come preloaded on the iPhones with nice shiny icons on the home screen.

Pretty soon we will have companies like EverNote suing Apple because Apple Notes comes installed on the phone.

That's where this is headed, right? Big bad Apple preinstalling apps on the iPhone which disenfranchises and is unfair to smaller weaker developers.

Yikes.

:p
 
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sw1tcher

macrumors 603
Jan 6, 2004
5,577
19,695
I've found that overall that is NOT to the case for the majority of Apps from Email, Office Apps, Photo editing and more.

- Apple maps is #6. Search term= Navigation
- Apple maps was #3. Search term= Map
- Apple maps was #3. Search Term= Maps
- Mail is #2. Search term= Email
- Photos #10. Search term= Photo editing
- iMovie #8. Search term= Video Editing (Editor)
- iMovie #7. Search term= Video Editor
- Keynote / Pages / Numbers #22, #24, and #28. Search term= Office
- Numbers #7. Search term= Spreadsheet
- Keynote #2. Search term=Presentation
- Garageband #cant even find it under "Audio production" "DAW" "Music Creation" "Music Production" "Music Editor" etc.. - Which kinda sucks because it's actually awesome (and free).

In fact the ONLY Apple app thats showing as #1 for me is Apple Music, if you search for "Music" (makes sense as its an exact match search term) or "Music Streaming".

In the music streaming market I don't know anyone who has not decided which app they want prior to searching anyhow, and exact match terms always show first e.g. Spotify, Tidal, Pandora etc...
You have to keep in mind that search results will differ from one person to another. Here are my results vs yours

Apple Maps is #2. Search term = Navigation
Apple Maps is #1. Search terms = Map and Maps
Mail is #1. Search term = mail but #2 using search term = email
Photos isn't even in top 70 using search term = photo editing. Walgreens app was #71 :confused:
iMovie is #5. Search term = video editing
 

bookofxero

macrumors 6502
Dec 31, 2017
413
650
I don't have enough choice over who provides my electricity. I don't have enough choice over who provides my cellular service. I don't have enough choice over who provides my Internet service. I don't have enough choice over who provides my television broadcasts. But app stores are a much higher priority, evidently.
I am stuck with Spectrum Charter (because despite their name, they are separate from and actually much worse than Spectrum TW) as my only option until who knows when because of municipal exclusivity agreements. It is things like this that make it clear who is buying and selling political stances.
 

bookofxero

macrumors 6502
Dec 31, 2017
413
650
If people are upset that Apple's apps appear high on the list in the App Store... they must be furious to know that many Apple apps also come preloaded on the iPhones with nice shiny icons on the home screen.

Pretty soon we will have companies like EverNote suing Apple because Apple Notes comes installed on the phone.

That's where this is headed, right? Big bad Apple preinstalling apps on the iPhone which disenfranchises and is unfair to smaller weaker developers.

Yikes.

:p
It is unfair to carriers who cannot force their unremovable crapware onto iPhones!
 

bookofxero

macrumors 6502
Dec 31, 2017
413
650
Utilities like electricity are often (at least in the U.S.) in their own category i.e., natural monopolies. They are regulated more strictly by state and/or local governments including what services they are required to provide, pricing requirements, etc. I am pretty sure Apple/iOS and Google/Android would not want to fall under that added level of regulation.

Apple/iOS (with around 67% share) and Google/Android (with around 33% share) are dominant players in mobile OS in Japan. That combined with their alleged anticompetitive activities are I assume (don't know Japanese law) why they are facing antitrust complaints.
And then there states like NC that will fine the electrical companies for unimaginable coal ash disasters and let them pass that expense right along to the consumers.
 

bookofxero

macrumors 6502
Dec 31, 2017
413
650
Just look at this screenshot. Apple Maps is listed before Google Maps and Waze despite having less ratings and a lower star rating overall.
That is not the best example since the search is for “Map” and “Maps” is arguably a much closer match than “Google Maps” and especially “Waze Navigation”.
 

bookofxero

macrumors 6502
Dec 31, 2017
413
650
Yeah, that's something that also needs to be worked on. There is only one decent broadband "option" where I am, and it's much more expensive than similar service in many other areas. We either need more options, or stricter regulation on what they can charge for their services. I'd rather have the former, where possible.

But I also don't think you have to just rank everything by priority and only work on the top item on the list until you've solved it before working on other items on the list.
Spectrum Time Warner gave me a sweetheart deal of $30/mo for 3 years because Google Fiber was in town (my apartment refused to even entertain the idea of having it connected). No contract. I moved a short distance away, but now in Spectrum Charter territory. “Oh, our systems aren’t integrated yet and we cannot honor that offer because it is a different market.”
 

Paddle1

macrumors 601
May 1, 2013
4,914
3,280
You don't think Samsung pushes their own apps and services in front of others? Of course they do? Why? Their customer bought their device.

Also, it may be first on that list because its already installed on the device.
Both Google and Apple Maps are installed.

And it was just an example, Samsung isn't even in the same playing field as Google and Apple seeing as they don't make a smartphone OS.
 

obviouslogic

macrumors 6502
Mar 23, 2022
277
437
You have to keep in mind that search results will differ from one person to another. Here are my results vs yours

Apple Maps is #2. Search term = Navigation
Apple Maps is #1. Search terms = Map and Maps
Mail is #1. Search term = mail but #2 using search term = email
Photos isn't even in top 70 using search term = photo editing. Walgreens app was #71 :confused:
iMovie is #5. Search term = video editing

Sorry, but this entire argument of self-preferential results is just stupid. It doesn't make any sense. A lot of Apple's apps come with the purchase of their devices. There's no incentive for Apple to push say, Photos, above Pixelmator, when Photos came with the device and they would potentially be losing the commission on selling a copy of Pixelmator.

If Apple were truly greedy, they would be placing the most expensive apps at the top of the list so they could collect all that juicy commission from those sales.

So other than some of their content/streaming services, they don't make any money or gain anything by trying to trick users into using their apps over a competitor's.
 

Paddle1

macrumors 601
May 1, 2013
4,914
3,280
That is not the best example since the search is for “Map” and “Maps” is arguably a much closer match than “Google Maps” and especially “Waze Navigation”.
That's fair, the stock apps' generic names can both hinder or help (when not looking for a particular app at least).
 
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Paddle1

macrumors 601
May 1, 2013
4,914
3,280
I've found that overall that is NOT to the case for the majority of Apps from Email, Office Apps, Photo editing and more.

- Apple maps is #6. Search term= Navigation
- Apple maps was #3. Search term= Map
- Apple maps was #3. Search Term= Maps
- Mail is #2. Search term= Email
- Photos #10. Search term= Photo editing
- iMovie #8. Search term= Video Editing (Editor)
- iMovie #7. Search term= Video Editor
- Keynote / Pages / Numbers #22, #24, and #28. Search term= Office
- Numbers #7. Search term= Spreadsheet
- Keynote #2. Search term=Presentation
- Garageband #cant even find it under "Audio production" "DAW" "Music Creation" "Music Production" "Music Editor" etc.. - Which kinda sucks because it's actually awesome (and free).

In fact the ONLY Apple app thats showing as #1 for me is Apple Music, if you search for "Music" (makes sense as its an exact match search term) or "Music Streaming".

In the music streaming market I don't know anyone who has not decided which app they want prior to searching anyhow, and exact match terms always show first e.g. Spotify, Tidal, Pandora etc...
Yeah it varies by region I'm sure, that picture was on the Canadian store. I concur that Apple apps aren't always at the top.
 

nt5672

macrumors 68040
Jun 30, 2007
3,489
7,422
Midwest USA
MacOS is not iOS. MacOS constantly needs security updates as exploits are always being found. (They’re fixed, but found)

Plus, MacOS has an option for trusted and untrusted apps.


These features will exist and vast majority will still stick with Apple’s store. I actually imagine that 99% of the entire Apple ecosystem will remain on Apple’s platform

But what happens when someone wants to have a cracked version of an app. Why even have the Apple App Store when every app can be download from a torrent site.

To be honest. If Apple actually does this, I would. Photoshop for $20. Minecraft for $7. Nah. I’ll download for free.
Not much integrity, huh?
 

rp100

macrumors regular
Sep 15, 2016
232
613
The tides have turned on locked phone ecosystems. Apple needs to enable side-loading instead of waiting for governments to mandate it. There is a serious risk that the regulation will reach even farther than simply requiring third party installs…
 
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lk400

macrumors 65816
Aug 26, 2012
1,066
648


Apple's App Store policies may be violating Japanese antitrust law, according to a new report from the Japan Fair Trade Commission (FTC) that was shared by Nikkei. Japanese regulators do not believe there is enough "competitive pressure" on Apple and Google as the two companies have a duopoly in mobile operating systems and dominate the app market.

iOS-App-Store-General-Feature-Sqaure-Complement.jpg

Japanese regulators want Apple and Google to allow users to choose third-party payment methods for apps and services, rather than forcing them to use the built-in purchase options in the App Store and Play Store. Google allows for third-party payment options for apps as of 2022, as does Apple in a very limited number of countries that have passed legislation calling for alternate payments.

The FTC suggested that app store commission rates between 15 and 30 percent could be an abuse of a dominant bargaining position. Apple in response said that a commission-based model was the best way to encourage development, while Google said that most developers are charged rates of 15 percent or less.

The two companies were also accused of manipulating search rankings to favor their own apps over competitors, which they denied.

The Japan FTC is calling for further regulation to suppress anti-competitive behavior, and said that it plans to work with the government council on digital competition on new laws. FTC head Ryota Inaba told Nikkei that the group will "respond strictly to any behavior found to violate antitrust law."

Today's report suggests that Japan could force Apple into accepting third-party payment options, something that it already does in South Korea after the country passed a law banning app store operators from forcing developers to use their billing systems. Apple has a similar allowance for dating apps in the Netherlands, allowing them to accept alternative payment methods after a dispute with the country's Authority for Consumers and Markets.

In Europe, Apple is gearing up to accommodate the Digital Markets Act, which will require it to allow apps to be downloaded on the iPhone using sideloading or alternate app stores, functionality expected as soon as iOS 17.

Article Link: App Store May Violate Japanese Antitrust Law
Good work! I suppose Sony will be next on the list regarding PlayStation?
 

webkit

macrumors 68030
Jan 14, 2021
2,949
2,558
United States
Good work! I suppose Sony will be next on the list regarding PlayStation?

Maybe. In what way are the violating antitrust laws?

If someone wants to acquire a PlayStation game, there are numerous stores and websites they can easily go to and ways they can pay. They can also buy privately ("used").

By comparison, Apple is far more restrictive with the iPhone/iOS.
 

TheMacDaddy1

macrumors 6502a
Aug 17, 2016
825
1,515
Merica!
I am more confident than ever we will soon be installing software on iOS devices without "AppStores".
I am more confident, that Apple will open this and other things up and after they do, 97.657% of their hardware users will still just the Apple app store for apps and payments.

Let me put it this way. If I want an app and it is not in the Apple app store and I cant pay for it in that store, without opening up another account with a vendor.....I will never use it.

I ditched PC gaming for console gaming in 2022 for a various reasons. I game less these days, current gen consoles have reached good enough for my needs, I pretty much HATE what Windows has become and I absolutely loathe having 5, 6, 7, 8 different gaming clients, each with a different account and different client software.
 
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