Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
So when Steve Jobs quoted Pablo Picasso in saying "Good artists copy, great artists steal." Was he saying that it's ok for Apple to steal, so long as no one else steals from Apple?

No. That quote is taken out of context all the time. It speaks to how the past is often inspiration for the future. I don't think either Steve Jobs or Pablo Picasso would have taken kindly to having their intellectual property outright stolen or infringed by someone else. Picasso's estate and his heirs quite regularly enforce their IP rights.

----------

As long as there is real technology involved, sure, I agree. But Apple primarily holds design - and NOT technology - patents. And their innovation in the software patent category - which is a category that shouldn't even exist in the first place because it's like patenting mathematics or language - is basically limited to trivial things like "slide to unlock", where someone awarded them a patent for a method invented thousands of years before Christ was born.

So, are "rounded corners" and "slide to unlock" worthy of patents and billions of dollars? Most certainly not. This whole case only demonstrates how perverted the American patent system is.

Apple didn't patent "rounded corners" or "rectangles." They patented specific designs that incorporate rounded corners and rectangles. So what? So has Samsung, and so has every car manufacturer.


Because, apparently, Apple has already hired all the good lawyers in your country and everybody else can only recruit the leftovers. At least everything that was published about this lawsuit so far does not leave much room for any other conclusion. Samsung's lawyers really blew this one. On further notice, Apple wasn't as lucky in the lawsuits that they launched in Europe against Samsung.

Samsung hired high-powered and high-priced lawyers, too. They had a chance to make their case. They didn't. As for Europe, their patent system is a bit different from the US' and arguably less favorable to inventors. Having said that, Google and Samsung also have gotten nowhere in their suits against Apple in Europe.
 
Samsung copies everyone, I don't see how this is such a complex matter. Anyone with a brain cell can see this.

----------



Well when Samsung do their own work there won't be anything to go to court over.

Do you think leonardo davinci would just stand aside while someone else copies his mona lisa and start outselling the original?

Wow, listen to you, according to you it was Mona Lisa, that is, famous, not Leonardo Davinci talent, you know, to paint. Very interesting angle you got there. Also, it seems you are a fan of "S"amsung as you respectfully capitalize their name, but painter and others apparenty did not make it to your "respected" list. And No, you can not outsell the original in this case because of everything else is a fake. Apple should not be afraid of the competition, but them selves. So far the most damage to Apple was done, well, by Apple execs.
 
Last edited:
Not a good analogy in this case, since it was OTHER companies (such as Samsung) who had together spent DECADES and BILLIONS creating a worldwide cellular infrastructure, and a huge customer market via affordable handsets, all of which Apple... late to the party... came in and was able to utilize at low cost to make tens of billions in profit.

It was those other companies who had defined the basic expectations of smartphone capabilities (phone, apps, browser, GPS, maps, etc), plus the displays and chipsets to do it, along with training cellular engineers that Apple could later hire. No wonder it only took Apple about a year to get the first iPhone working well enough for a public demo. The talent and basics were already available.

As for the finger friendly UI (which was the only major difference), it certainly didn't take hundreds of millions or deep thinking to come up with. Such things had been in use in industrial scenarios since the early 1990s.

Heck, it's estimated that Apple only spent about $150 million developing the iPhone, which was a tiny 0.8% of their entire 2006 revenue. Hardly the huge risk people try to make it out to be. If the iPhone had failed, they could've acted like it was just another hobby like ATV.

Apple is not the one to worry over. I'd reserve that for pioneering cell/smartphone companies like Motorola, Nokia, Blackberry, and HTC, who helped found the very industry that Apple profited so hugely from as a newcomer with no legacy UI or hardware to support.

Apple started work on the iPhone in 2004, codenamed Project Purple at the time.

It's also silly to dismiss Apple because they didn't create a phone earlier. They entered the market and changed it for the better. I think that's fairly significant. What legacy UI and hardware stopped manufacturers from creating a new platform and moving forward? LG had the basic hardware together in the Prada but couldn't execute. What was stopping anyone else from doing it properly?

Google even scrapped some of their plans and reworked Android when the iPhone was announced. They were less tied down than any other manufacturer yet the iPhone and its abilities still took them by surprise.

Business Insider said:
When Apple introduced the iPhone in 2007, Google was already working on Android, its own smartphone operating system. Google bought Android, which was Rubin's startup, for ~$50 million in 2005.

According to Dogfight, when Apple announced the iPhone, Rubin realized he would have to throw out what he was thinking of launching.

He was in a cab in Las Vegas, watching a webcast of the presentation. He made the driver pull over so he could see the whole thing. He said, "Holy crap, I guess we're not going to launch that phone."

Ethan Beard, an early Android business development executive told Vogelstein, "We knew that Apple was going to announce a phone. Everyone knew that. We just didn't think it would be that good."

Google had phone software that was ready to launch at the end of the year, but it looked awful relative to the iPhone, so it was all scrapped and delayed. "What we had looked so ... nineties," said an Android engineer.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/stev...dy-rubin-big-arrogant-f-2013-11#ixzz2l3ThJknW

As well, Apple helped break the hold where the carrier was the gatekeeper of everything related to your phone. That's pretty great, I think.

I also worry far more about the problem of deep pocket companies grabbing silly software patents and hurting the smaller guys and the industry in general.
Very true. A lot of really cool things come from the small guys because taking risks is required of them.
 
Last edited:
It's also silly to dismiss Apple because they didn't create a phone earlier.

Only he did nothing of the sort. His post goes far deeper than that.

It goes both ways as well - which is part of his point. If you don't want to dismiss Apple for everything they brought - why is it so easy for some to dismiss everything EVERYONE else brought before Apple which made the iPhone possible.

It's almost offensive the way people scoff at everything pre-iPhone.
 
Only he did nothing of the sort. His post goes far deeper than that.

It goes both ways as well - which is part of his point. If you don't want to dismiss Apple for everything they brought - why is it so easy for some to dismiss everything EVERYONE else brought before Apple which made the iPhone possible.

It's almost offensive the way people scoff at everything pre-iPhone.

It definitely goes both ways. Without phones before the iPhone, it obviously couldn't exist!
 
So when Steve Jobs quoted Pablo Picasso in saying "Good artists copy, great artists steal." Was he saying that it's ok for Apple to steal, so long as no one else steals from Apple?

If you ever bother to watch "Triumph of the Nerds" you will know that contextually he trying to make a specific point about how the Mac came about and how Microsoft does things.

What Steve Jobs actually said
Ultimately it comes down to taste. It comes down to trying to expose yourself to the best things that humans have done and then try to bring those things in to what you're doing. I mean Picasso had a saying he said good artists copy great artists steal. And we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas and I think part of what made the Macintosh great was that the people working on it were musicians and poets and artists and zoologists and historians who also happened to be the best computer scientists in the world.

The only problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste, they have absolutely no taste, and what that means is - I don't mean that in a small way I mean that in a big way. In the sense that they they don't think of original ideas and they don't bring much culture into their product and you say why is that important - well you know proportionally spaced fonts come from type setting and beautiful books, that's where one gets the idea - if it weren't for the Mac they would never have that in their products and so I guess I am saddened, not by Microsoft's success - I have no problem with their success, they've earned their success for the most part. I have a problem with the fact that they just make really third rate products.
 
Can't everyone just play nice, please...? This is getting ridiculous.

I'm with you.

Yet sadly it's all about to play out unfairly since it's a U.S. Court, U.S. Judge, U.S. Press, U.S. Apple. Samsung is far from perfect, yet they don't seem to spew venom and hatred like Apple does.

It's not my money, nor do I have a horse in this race. In fact I believe Apples the most well equipped to beat Samsung, by building the finest Smartphones, without fighting it out in court.

The only reason Apples working so hard to establish an unfair advantage, is to pump up their ego.

Don't believe that? Simply attend just one Apple keynote and it's obvious beyond words.
 
Why have they admitted to infringement and are now only quibbling about the total damages?

They don't have admitted anything. And they are now only quibbling about the total damages because the retrial is just only about damages.

----------

Hmm... what country is Judge Lucy Koh from... :rolleyes:

She was born in Washington so I think she is from United States
 
Hmm... what country is Judge Lucy Koh from... :rolleyes:

Really?

America. Land of the free, home of the brave, base of the litigious.

She was born in Washington so I think she is from United States

I think the OP, was trying to establish a conspiracy link between the fact that Lucy Koh is of Korean descent and therefore favouring Samsung, a Korean multinational.

However you could also argue the opposite, in that (with the conspiracy theory mind) she may have felt obliged to rule over harshly to negate that opinion.

Some could suggest that allowing the $1B damages was just that.
 
Really?





I think the OP, was trying to establish a conspiracy link between the fact that Lucy Koh is of Korean descent and therefore favouring Samsung, a Korean multinational.

However you could also argue the opposite, in that (with the conspiracy theory mind) she may have felt obliged to rule over harshly to negate that opinion.

Some could suggest that allowing the $1B damages was just that.

Or there could be no conspiracy or bias at all and she ruled the way she ruled because based on her experience and her interpretation of the law, that's what she believe to be right.
 
It's no different in any way to what Apple does, and don't tell me Apple doesn't steal when iOS7 is a carbon copy of Android and WebOS.

The old "Apple does it so why can't Samsung" defense. Do a little research on Samsung and see exactly what kind of company we're dealing with.
 
The old "Apple does it so why can't Samsung" defense. Do a little research on Samsung and see exactly what kind of company we're dealing with.

Let's put it another way. All companies borrow from others. You can argue until the cows come home who is worse or who is better but that's mostly subjective.
 
Let's put it another way. All companies borrow from others. You can argue until the cows come home who is worse or who is better but that's mostly subjective.

I would have a hard time merely calling it subjective. It's really not that hard to see the different interpretation of ethics between the two companies, if you're willing to be objective.
 
And yet the S3 and S4 look nothing like the iPhone and have been selling incredibly. Please explain...

Oh - and after that - you can explain how Apple didn't get a "free" ride off of everyone who ever developed a phone and/or smartphone prior to 2007.

Grabs popcorn

Guess everybody needs inspiration, Samsung for sure did need that inspiration and it really did pay off, helped a lot on branding for their Galaxy line which Samsung still enjoys today. :)

Nobody does it better than Samsung, the company even needed inspiration down to packaging and marketing materials to even further their free ride of the iPhone bandwagon during that time :D
 
Last edited:
The old "Apple does it so why can't Samsung" defense. Do a little research on Samsung and see exactly what kind of company we're dealing with.

What??? You mean Samsung, the makers of ships to dishwashers, yeah what a company. Apple copies, it's no 'old story' either, weather you choose to accept that or not is your choice though. And yes so does Samsung copy too.
 
Last edited:
Considering how often patent infringement happens by complete accident, such a system would eventually drive just about every tech company currently operating out of business, up to and including Apple.

That's a harsh penalty to pay for infringing on something as innocuous as bouncy screens and devising a system in software that identifies phone numbers and makes them active links.

Fair enough, as I will also point out that there's several things in our current IP laws which are profoundly broken - - my intent here was really to identify what would be appropriate justice for those that knowingly and purposefully infringe, particularly when they refuse to stop on their own accord.


-hh
 
What??? You mean Samsung, the makers of ships to dishwashers, yeah what a company. Apple copies, it's no 'old story' either, weather you choose to accept that or not is your choice though. And yes so does Samsung copy too.

I'm referring to the convicted criminal heading Samsung and the fact that he works in a country where the government looks the other way. I guess because Samsung is such a huge part of their economy?
 
Don't worry. Bruce has his end game in sight. It may take a couple more years.

Remember, Samsung gets caught up in these things due to being careless, and rushing devices to market.

Eventually every Android phone sold will be required to pay a yet to be determined fee to Apple.

It's about margins, ALWAYS. ;)
yep they'll just use some of the money they make off Apple for parts nobody else can get right.
 
I'm referring to the convicted criminal heading Samsung and the fact that he works in a country where the government looks the other way. I guess because Samsung is such a huge part of their economy?

The previous poster talked about ships and dishwashers, but wisely avoided talking about vacuum cleaners. Samsung copied Dyson's patents as well, not just Apple's.
 
Apple started work on the iPhone in 2004, codenamed Project Purple at the time.

There have been plenty of insider based histories, and they all agree on the basic timeline. Apple might have started thinking about doing a phone in 2004, but they didn't really get going seriously until 2005.

Heck, in mid 2005, Apple was still using iPods as phone UI mules (experimental phone UI tests using the trackwheel). That's also about the time they approached Verizon, but obviously with nothing to show them, Big Red had little interest.

It wasn't until towards the end of 2005 that Apple decided to go with a touch system and to not use Linux. The hardware design really began around Thanksgiving of 2005, and the OSX port that became iOS started at the beginning of 2006.

That's why I give them credit for only taking about a year from the time that the final Purple 2 project began.

It's also silly to dismiss Apple because they didn't create a phone earlier. They entered the market and changed it for the better. I think that's fairly significant.

Oh, definitely they had an impact. As I pointed out, very few paid paid attention to existing multi-touch smartphone ideas until Apple went public.

I love that Apple did what they did. After all, as someone who had 15 years of touch and handheld experience before the iPhone was revealed, it made my skills even more valuable and sought after. :)

What legacy UI and hardware stopped manufacturers from creating a new platform and moving forward? LG had the basic hardware together in the Prada but couldn't execute. What was stopping anyone else from doing it properly?

It's all about where your customer base is, and what technology you had to support (or thought you had to support).

First, bear in mind that smartphone customers were overwhelmingly enterprise users at the time.

As for hardware, smartphones had kind of settled on 240x320 color screens by 2001. For years after, manufacturers not only had to support enterprise apps of that old resolution, but also the ability to use a stylus, and to allow non-touch variations with cursor pads.

Everyone falls prey to legacy support. Look at Apple, who had to resort to pixel doubling, and simple screen lengthening.

Google even scrapped some of their plans and reworked Android when the iPhone was announced. They were less tied down than any other manufacturer yet the iPhone and its abilities still took them by surprise.

Because of Google's desire to prevent Bing from becoming a mobile standard, Android was aimed at Windows Mobile, which had both touch and non-touch versions. It made sense to start with the one they had a dev unit for, but they were already doing both.

As well, Apple helped break the hold where the carrier was the gatekeeper of everything related to your phone. That's pretty great, I think.

Perhap you're thinking of dumb phones.

Carriers were never gatekeepers of smartphone applications like Apple is. You could install any app you wanted. Apple created a walled garden where there was none before.

Then we were held hostage by AT&T's bandwidth limitations for years, while Apple bent over to whatever AT&T wanted to be WiFi only.

Some people think not having a carrier label or built-in app is terrific. Since I always use a case, the label doesn't bother me. And with Android the bloatware is kept in the app drawer, rarely seen.
 
Ban them. The finishing touch was the revealing of those Samsung documents detailing how they could put iPhone-like features in their products.

Do you realize how junk Apple products would be now if Apple did not feel an pressure to compete to keep ahead of others?

You owe every other company for Apple making the items they do now?
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.