elppa
macrumors 68040
And for the wider perspective: Who made more profit from consumer electronics?
(a) Microsoft (b) Apple
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Apple 1Q 2008 Results: Record $1.58 Billion Profit
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And for the wider perspective: Who made more profit from consumer electronics?
(a) Microsoft (b) Apple
Much Ado
macrumors 68000
Apple always has been. They "cherry pick" and sell only the parts of the line that bring in the most money. Apple sells premium products at a premium price. By definition a "premium product" can never be mainstream. This is not to say that Apple can't make a lot of money this way. Look at the car industry. BMW, Mercedes and so on sell only in a "niche" too.
If they wanted volume and market share they'd offer a $299 "Econo Mac" that would compete with E-machine.
gnasher729
Suspended
Well, Apple makes more profit than Microsoft loses on the XBox 360, but not _that_ much more 😛 PS3 is in the red as well. Apple TV is not the big money spinner, but it isn't doing too bad if you compare it to products that are roughly in the same market, like the TiVo.
And one poster got it right, of course; the Wii is actually making serious money.
Psh, if only the Macbook Air had an ethernet port, it wouldn't doom Apple this way. Because, you know, we all buy 3lb. laptops to leave them tethered to a desk.
gnasher729
Suspended
Now that is a good question. First we'd need to decide what you count as "consumer electronics". XBox, iPod, Zune, iPhone obviously. Do you count computers and mice/keyboards if they are sold to home users? Software sold to home users?
I would love to see the iPhone sales breakdown.
I would bet that there wasnt much penetration in the international market.
Successful negotiations in the Asia region will really make the biggest impact. There is a lot of new wealth there, but I doubt the Telcos will bend over as easy considering the speculation regarding sales performance in Europe.
Glad to see sales of other products are coming along nicely. But it looks like they are forecasting a slow down which is never a good sign.
I would bet that there wasnt much penetration in the international market.
Successful negotiations in the Asia region will really make the biggest impact. There is a lot of new wealth there, but I doubt the Telcos will bend over as easy considering the speculation regarding sales performance in Europe.
Glad to see sales of other products are coming along nicely. But it looks like they are forecasting a slow down which is never a good sign.
IJ Reilly
macrumors P6
Did I mention P/E ratios?
AAPL investor since 1997. And you?
Because Venus is in the second house. And you needed to ask?
IOW, good luck finding any logic in the stock market, especially on any given day.
Pandaboots
macrumors regular
Clarification on the stock price
All it boils down to is people are idiots. Everyone is panicking and selling and hurting themselves and everyone around them. Apple just posted another all-time record Qtr. Investors respond with a mass sell-off because Apple projects profits and growth for next qtr to be less than analysts expectations. However, Apple is still projecting growth.
Now you know as well as I do that Apple will continue to launch products that will surprise everyone and give us that "I need/want one" reaction. That coupled with movie rentals, which should make everyone with the older model iPods upgrade to the newer video versions to utilize this. Also,
TV will have a great year in 2008 as the movie/tv show fiasco settles down and iTunes matures a little more on this front. In addition every mac will be seeing upgrades/potential refreshes this year too and market share will continue to grow in the computer division. Then we also have a new iPhone due out, which in my opinion will blow away the original's sales numbers, because a lot of people (myself included) are holding out for version 2. Leopard will become more stable (and even more attractive for switchers), iLife/iWork will be updated, and on and on.
So, in these bad economic times with companies posting record losses, or first-time losses, companies going bankrupt/being bought out, Apple is posting record numbers and still projecting growth in possibly one of the worst economies of all-time. It only makes sense that investors would be looking to find a shining star like Apple. I say let the idiots bail and let us smart ones hold on and keep gobbling up shares at a bargain. I mean, where the hell is everyone putting their money when they sell Apple? Under their mattress?
These times are amazing. In the first 3 weeks of 2008, Apple has announced a record qtr for growth, sales, margins and profits, produced an amazing line-up of products and services, and added 3 billion dollars to their already fat wallet and investors see this as negative and bail....I hope they all go to Microsoft....This will be Apple's finest year...I guarantee you that Apple will be buying up their competition with their 18 billion in cash as all their competitors' stock prices dwindle. Man, what a world we live in.
All it boils down to is people are idiots. Everyone is panicking and selling and hurting themselves and everyone around them. Apple just posted another all-time record Qtr. Investors respond with a mass sell-off because Apple projects profits and growth for next qtr to be less than analysts expectations. However, Apple is still projecting growth.
Now you know as well as I do that Apple will continue to launch products that will surprise everyone and give us that "I need/want one" reaction. That coupled with movie rentals, which should make everyone with the older model iPods upgrade to the newer video versions to utilize this. Also,
TV will have a great year in 2008 as the movie/tv show fiasco settles down and iTunes matures a little more on this front. In addition every mac will be seeing upgrades/potential refreshes this year too and market share will continue to grow in the computer division. Then we also have a new iPhone due out, which in my opinion will blow away the original's sales numbers, because a lot of people (myself included) are holding out for version 2. Leopard will become more stable (and even more attractive for switchers), iLife/iWork will be updated, and on and on. So, in these bad economic times with companies posting record losses, or first-time losses, companies going bankrupt/being bought out, Apple is posting record numbers and still projecting growth in possibly one of the worst economies of all-time. It only makes sense that investors would be looking to find a shining star like Apple. I say let the idiots bail and let us smart ones hold on and keep gobbling up shares at a bargain. I mean, where the hell is everyone putting their money when they sell Apple? Under their mattress?
These times are amazing. In the first 3 weeks of 2008, Apple has announced a record qtr for growth, sales, margins and profits, produced an amazing line-up of products and services, and added 3 billion dollars to their already fat wallet and investors see this as negative and bail....I hope they all go to Microsoft....This will be Apple's finest year...I guarantee you that Apple will be buying up their competition with their 18 billion in cash as all their competitors' stock prices dwindle. Man, what a world we live in.
I guess the iPod is good enough as it is, people aren't upgrading as often now.
Seems the MP3 player market is around 25m a quarter, max. Indeed in many places it will go down as people use their phones instead for this function. Maybe this will be counterbalanced by increasing sales in poorer markets.
So Apple's investment in mobile phone technology and platform is extremely useful for them to continue the long term growth of this area of their business (mobile communications and personal entertainment). The 3G phone will be a hit around the world as well, and as a product should be extremely desirable, but it will still take a year or two for Apple's phone sales to even approach their iPod sales. But cumulatively they could still increase overall, allowing Apple to mask possible falling sales of iPods. Apple do have other markets to attack with the iPod though, it's all very interesting. A 32GB Touch later this year will round out the offerings, and it's possible the nano will relegate itself to a $149 8GB device, with a $199 8GB Touch and a $249 16GB Touch. The Classic will stay alive into 2009 because flash memory isn't quite competitive yet in terms of capacity.
In the short term consumer uncertainty means people will be putting off non-essential purchases. High price items will be eschewed in favour of cheaper alternative if they have to be bought. Apple needs the Mac Mini more than ever this year as their low-price product. They will want to keep the YoY sales increasing, so quantity is required. MacBook could do with a cheaper option as well.
It's not like this year will see Apple take a battering - with nearly $20b in the bank they'll be good for years, and that will probably be at $25b in 12 to 18 months regardless.
Seems the MP3 player market is around 25m a quarter, max. Indeed in many places it will go down as people use their phones instead for this function. Maybe this will be counterbalanced by increasing sales in poorer markets.
So Apple's investment in mobile phone technology and platform is extremely useful for them to continue the long term growth of this area of their business (mobile communications and personal entertainment). The 3G phone will be a hit around the world as well, and as a product should be extremely desirable, but it will still take a year or two for Apple's phone sales to even approach their iPod sales. But cumulatively they could still increase overall, allowing Apple to mask possible falling sales of iPods. Apple do have other markets to attack with the iPod though, it's all very interesting. A 32GB Touch later this year will round out the offerings, and it's possible the nano will relegate itself to a $149 8GB device, with a $199 8GB Touch and a $249 16GB Touch. The Classic will stay alive into 2009 because flash memory isn't quite competitive yet in terms of capacity.
In the short term consumer uncertainty means people will be putting off non-essential purchases. High price items will be eschewed in favour of cheaper alternative if they have to be bought. Apple needs the Mac Mini more than ever this year as their low-price product. They will want to keep the YoY sales increasing, so quantity is required. MacBook could do with a cheaper option as well.
It's not like this year will see Apple take a battering - with nearly $20b in the bank they'll be good for years, and that will probably be at $25b in 12 to 18 months regardless.
takao
macrumors 68040
yeah mercedes is only selling in niches...
not counting tractors, cabriolets, financial business and electronics/design business:
A -class
B -class
C -class
E- class
S -class
G
GL
R
V
Vito/Viano
Vario
Sprinter
Actros
Atego
Econic
Axor
CapaCity
Citaro
Conecto
Unimog UGN
Unimog UHN
in fact you couldn't have choosen a worse example... in fact mercedes is one with the widest possible line ups out there
No, seriously, though, I love mine. For costing about the same as
But does it play movies? (much less HD ones or 5.1 surround...it doesn't even have HD output, does it?)
Sure, but the real question is whether xbox or PS3 is profitable once you include software sales. In the case of 360, it's entirely possible that it's more profitable than aTV at this point.
MacGeek7
macrumors 6502a
that's not necessarily a bad thing - it just means that will have to push that much harder to give us better products.
ditto
jayducharme
macrumors 603
Ahhh! So it wasn't Microsoft that was to blame for Vista not being accepted. It was those darned hardware vendors! 🙄
Guiding down in any market will hurt you. In this market it will kill your share price. Just look at what happened to Cisco when it guided down last quarter.
Apple has to continue to show sustainable growth and it doesnt look it has done that with the iPods. I'm sure they will pick it it up somewhere in the future, but investors don't want to hear a company guiding down.
Apple has to continue to show sustainable growth and it doesnt look it has done that with the iPods. I'm sure they will pick it it up somewhere in the future, but investors don't want to hear a company guiding down.
megfilmworks
macrumors 68020
Not to mention contributing the block for Thielert's Turbo Diesel aviation engines. Used on the Austrian Diamond TwinStar.
trukurt
macrumors newbie
The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
Like many people, I wish I had sold my Apple stock at $200, and I keep waiting for this crazy slide to abate, and yet I refuse to join the panic and sell. Why? Because I see where Apple is heading. Think about it. Steve gets all of the major movie production companies to make their movies available through iTunes, fattening that cash cow. I've already rented two movies and bought three. They've added a GPS-like feature to iPhone and just now put out their SDK. We'll see this platform mature into an even greater "must have", plus the device is making strong inroads into corporate America. It's #2 behind Blackberry, they'll hit their 10 million sold in a year, and Apple aims at a global market, much larger than RIM. Watch for Apple to lead the "smart phone" innovation by enabling video iChat on the device. That's already feasible over wifi, and will be possible as faster phone networks evolve. Apple's demograpic appeal is broad spectrum. Who doesn't like music and/or videos of some kind. Consumers want convenience, selection, and value. Apple TV sales will take off once the video library is up to 1,000+ videos, which is by the end of February. The number of video offerings will grow exponentially, as happened with music on iTunes. Apple TV, like the ipods, will work cross platform, and will become another conduit for video on demand that will beat NetFlix or any cable service because the issues will be easily transferred across Apple's many devices (video iPods, iPhones, laptops, etc.). Apple is positioning itself in the center of the entertainment universe. At the same time, it makes the best computers and software on the planet. The have a record quarter and are spanked mainly because consumer demand is expected worsen over a recessionary period that will likely last no longer than 18 months. During this time, Apple will continue to grow market share, introduce new products, improve how existing products and software perform, and further enhance it's global panache. When the markets open tomorrow, I'm buying all the stock I can afford. Apple stock will rebound as one of the surest bets and will split before it hits $250.
Like many people, I wish I had sold my Apple stock at $200, and I keep waiting for this crazy slide to abate, and yet I refuse to join the panic and sell. Why? Because I see where Apple is heading. Think about it. Steve gets all of the major movie production companies to make their movies available through iTunes, fattening that cash cow. I've already rented two movies and bought three. They've added a GPS-like feature to iPhone and just now put out their SDK. We'll see this platform mature into an even greater "must have", plus the device is making strong inroads into corporate America. It's #2 behind Blackberry, they'll hit their 10 million sold in a year, and Apple aims at a global market, much larger than RIM. Watch for Apple to lead the "smart phone" innovation by enabling video iChat on the device. That's already feasible over wifi, and will be possible as faster phone networks evolve. Apple's demograpic appeal is broad spectrum. Who doesn't like music and/or videos of some kind. Consumers want convenience, selection, and value. Apple TV sales will take off once the video library is up to 1,000+ videos, which is by the end of February. The number of video offerings will grow exponentially, as happened with music on iTunes. Apple TV, like the ipods, will work cross platform, and will become another conduit for video on demand that will beat NetFlix or any cable service because the issues will be easily transferred across Apple's many devices (video iPods, iPhones, laptops, etc.). Apple is positioning itself in the center of the entertainment universe. At the same time, it makes the best computers and software on the planet. The have a record quarter and are spanked mainly because consumer demand is expected worsen over a recessionary period that will likely last no longer than 18 months. During this time, Apple will continue to grow market share, introduce new products, improve how existing products and software perform, and further enhance it's global panache. When the markets open tomorrow, I'm buying all the stock I can afford. Apple stock will rebound as one of the surest bets and will split before it hits $250.
Clive At Five
macrumors 65816
No, but you could shoot for a PS3 which is a media center, has a BluRay optical drive, has the best graphics on the market, and has motion-sensing controls (albeit nothing like the Wii's). It even has media-sharing with iTunes with the proper configuration.
So for $170 more than the cost of an
TV, you can get a device that has 80% of the functionality of an TV (no iTS), can play BluRay media, and has the best graphics of any gaming console on the market. I also just read that this year Sony is announcing technology to make the PS3 a DVR as well!So if you're asking what I'd rather buy...
.......PS3.
-Clive
dante@sisna.com
macrumors 6502a
dante@sisna.com
macrumors 6502a
Ah, No, clearly you do not understand the fundamental underpinnings of an economy and where they currently stand in ours.
The stock is down because of next quarters guidance, but they do that every quarter than smash the numbers. Last quarter was the first quarter they guided up to $1.42 or so, which was ahead of analysts numbers, but by the time they came out today, most analysts had raised their number to about $1.60 during the quarter. They all want to be heroes and the one that is right. They still handily even beat those raised numbers.
Apple's p/e based on last 12 months of earnings at $4.55 is 30. It has been at roughly 40 all year. It's growing much faster still than 30%. Even Graham & Dodd followers WOULD buy at these levels. It's tech and volatile, but the future looks bright to me.
Apple's p/e based on last 12 months of earnings at $4.55 is 30. It has been at roughly 40 all year. It's growing much faster still than 30%. Even Graham & Dodd followers WOULD buy at these levels. It's tech and volatile, but the future looks bright to me.
Share price and MBP release
First of all - I'm not taking Stock-buying advice from any of you.
I'd be very poor if I did.
In 6 months time, I don't think Apple will be at $140 or lower - and here's why.
It's interesting that they have released the MacBook Air with a smaller Merom processor. Ideally this should have a Penryn chip in it - for heat and processing power. They haven't - so this suggests to me that they haven't got their laptop platforms nailed down for Penryn yet - and aren't ready to release. If they had to wait 10 weeks for the MBA platform to be ready for Penryn - would they have waited?
So - I'm going to take a guess and say that Apple HAS got a revision ready for the MacBook Pro - and that it won't be released this quarter.
That helps explain their conservative guidance.
Watch them release the MBP in the next quarter and watch the share-price jump up again.
Everything is humming along quite nicely - the iPhone getting ready for release into Asia Macs selling well - and now a share-price drop.
Can you say BUY opportunity? Catch a falling knife... it can be done.
First of all - I'm not taking Stock-buying advice from any of you.
I'd be very poor if I did.
In 6 months time, I don't think Apple will be at $140 or lower - and here's why.
It's interesting that they have released the MacBook Air with a smaller Merom processor. Ideally this should have a Penryn chip in it - for heat and processing power. They haven't - so this suggests to me that they haven't got their laptop platforms nailed down for Penryn yet - and aren't ready to release. If they had to wait 10 weeks for the MBA platform to be ready for Penryn - would they have waited?
So - I'm going to take a guess and say that Apple HAS got a revision ready for the MacBook Pro - and that it won't be released this quarter.
That helps explain their conservative guidance.
Watch them release the MBP in the next quarter and watch the share-price jump up again.
Everything is humming along quite nicely - the iPhone getting ready for release into Asia Macs selling well - and now a share-price drop.
Can you say BUY opportunity? Catch a falling knife... it can be done.