Apple 2B banned from MWSF?

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by MacCoaster
strider42: Actually, it's Apple who are shooting themselves. Apple does not need to decide where the Expos should be, that's IDG's business. If Apple were smart enough, they would go to the Boston one as well.

Like any partner, Apple wants a say in the decision, and, quite frankly, if you think "MacWorld Boston" without Apple is anything more compelling than a Star Trek convention without even a blue-uniform guest star signing autographs, you are woefully misinformed.

Apple likes New York. Moving to Boston does nothing for Apple's customers (Boston is just as expensive as New York, INFINITELY harder to get around in with the daily Big Dig traffic pattern changes that even the locals get confused by, and it's not like people will find it easier to get a flight to Logan than to JFK). Moving from New York does two things: it "abandons" New York at a time that such is INCREDIBLY bad PR (you know that Apple moving MacWorld away will be on the "financial impact to New York" summary sheets), and it removes the "Apple in the Big Apple" thingy that apparently more than one journalist thinks is cute. Plus, Steve Jobs in his wardrobe of black turtlenecks fits in there better than in Boston.

It's Apple's loss, not IDG's.

Meaning, what? That IDG is the ONLY COMPANY IN THE WORLD CAPABLE OF ORGANIZING MACWORLD?!? That's pure Bull. IDG is AN event organizer. If they aren't listening to what Apple wants, then Apple should find another event organizer who is more responsive.

Let me make this absolutely clear:

MacWorld without Apple is nothing.

MacWorld without IDG ... Who cares?

Sorry for the rant ...

 

[iShater]

sounds a lot like the ATI fiasco!

I wouldn't be surprised if Jobs didn't want IDG to make the announcement. They probably didn't pay attention and made a mistake, and Jobs decided to make a bigger deal out of it.

 

[MacCoaster]

Originally posted by jettredmont
Like any partner, Apple wants a say in the decision, and, quite frankly, if you think "MacWorld Boston" without Apple is anything more compelling than a Star Trek convention without even a blue-uniform guest star signing autographs, you are woefully misinformed.

I'm actually more interested in the wealth of third party stuff at the Macworlds. So much more interesting than... "one more thing..." which is getting bored. Besides, Apple can't rely on Macworlds for product announcements anymore. I expect them to act mature and attend the Macworlds in a small booth showing off the current machines.

Apple likes New York. Moving to Boston does nothing for Apple's customers (Boston is just as expensive as New York, INFINITELY harder to get around in with the daily Big Dig traffic pattern changes that even the locals get confused by, and it's not like people will find it easier to get a flight to Logan than to JFK). Moving from New York does two things: it "abandons" New York at a time that such is INCREDIBLY bad PR (you know that Apple moving MacWorld away will be on the "financial impact to New York" summary sheets), and it removes the "Apple in the Big Apple" thingy that apparently more than one journalist thinks is cute. Plus, Steve Jobs in his wardrobe of black turtlenecks fits in there better than in Boston.

The comment above is full of subjective thoughts.

I love New York, but I don't care where the Macworld is. Boston is a very viable city for it, as Macworld Expo (east) started in Boston.

Boston may be hard for you and some people to get around, but most cities are all like that.

Why is it so incredibly bad PR? Sept. 11? Come on! People have to move on instead of boo hoo'ing that Apple is so "un-patriotic" to leave NYC.

If I could, I would attend the MWBoston. But that's just me and some other people who don't care what Apple is whining about.

Meaning, what? That IDG is the ONLY COMPANY IN THE WORLD CAPABLE OF ORGANIZING MACWORLD?!? That's pure Bull. IDG is AN event organizer. If they aren't listening to what Apple wants, then Apple should find another event organizer who is more responsive.

Yes. IDG is the only one who produces Macworld. They don't have to listen to Apple. It's their event, not Apple's. Apple is free to find another event organizer.

MacWorld without Apple is nothing.

Based on what? I don't think we've ever had a Macworld without Apple, but correct me if I'm wrong. [edit: correction, Europe did have Macworlds without Apple (thanks Vector)] There are several vendors pledging to go to Macworld Boston no matter if Apple isn't. That way, I'd get to check out all my favorite companies' gizmos for the Macintosh. To me and many customers, that is the main objective of Macworld. They want to see things that work for the Macintosh. Apple being there is a plus, but really, Macworld could live without Apple.

MacWorld without IDG ... Who cares?

To you... but not to me and many others.

 

[Vector]

Originally posted by MacCoaster

Based on what? I don't think we've ever had a Macworld without Apple, but correct me if I'm wrong. There are several vendors pledging to go to Macworld Boston no matter if Apple isn't. That way, I'd get to check out all my favorite companies' gizmos for the Macintosh. To me and many customers, that is the main objective of Macworld. They want to see things that work for the Macintosh. Apple being there is a plus, but really, Macworld could live without Apple.

There were some macworld expos in europe that apple did not attend until recently.

 

[jettredmont]

First, let me say that as far as MacWorld being "nothing" without Apple ... well, maybe that's an exagerration. But I certainly wouldn't go to a MacWorld were Apple not in attendance. Third party tools and such are nice, but hardly enough of a draw for me to attend such a convention.

Originally posted by MacCoaster

I love New York, but I don't care where the Macworld is. Boston is a very viable city for it, as Macworld Expo (east) started in Boston.

Boston may be hard for you and some people to get around, but most cities are all like that.

Obviously coming from someone who hasn't tried to get around Boston in the past, oh, decade or so. I have been in the Boston area for the past ten years. The Big Dig, which is a wholesale rerouting of the major arteries going into Boston so that they run under the city instead of above ground, is not just your average "big city" inconvenience. It is a disaster to navigate around, because any map that you have is guaranteed to be out of date regarding where onramps and offramps are and how to get places. Locals are confused by it but get by. Visitors who have been in the city before tend to get all turned around. Visitors new to the city tend to remark that it seems like no one else around them knew where they were going (but, strangely enough, those who have never been to Boston before tend to get to places the best ...)

Yes, I know MacWorld East started in Boston, and moved out because the (now replaced) center was too small for it. Now that there is more convention space available, that problem has been fixed. But in the meantime a horrendous second problem has arisen: Boston is a traffic nightmare.

If you have not been in Boston recently, I am sorry, but your opinion on how easy Boston is to get around is completely out of date. Boston is a nightmare to navigate, and will remain so until 2010 or so, when the major bits of the Big Dig are scheduled to complete. Or maybe even longer, as the Big Dig was originally supposed to be completely finished by now, and the "finish" date is constantly being moved outward.

Why is it so incredibly bad PR? Sept. 11? Come on! People have to move on instead of boo hoo'ing that Apple is so "un-patriotic" to leave NYC.

It's incredibly bad PR because the financial effects of disasters get written down and publicized. Apple pulling out of NYC will be seen as a result of Sept 11, and will be talked about as such. That's not good publicity. Pulling out of a city is never good publicity, of course, but any other time that would just be local bad pub, not national.

As for "People have to move on" ... blah, blah, blah. It doesn't matter what people "have to" do. People haven't. That's why it would be incredibly bad PR. If/When I rule the world, such moving on will happen in a swift and timely manner. Unfortunately, I do not yet rule the world.

[ MacWorld without IDG ... who cares? ]
To you... but not to me and many others.

You really care who the organizer of an event is? I don't see why the average convention-goer would give two shakes who the organizer is. IDG may own the "MacWorld" name, that's the only negotiating power I can see them having whatsoever. How "visible" is IDG to the MacWorld-going crowd? I find it hard to believe that the "IDG" name behind the event is more well known than "Apple"!!!

 

[MacCoaster]

Originally posted by jettredmont
First, let me say that as far as MacWorld being "nothing" without Apple ... well, maybe that's an exagerration. But I certainly wouldn't go to a MacWorld were Apple not in attendance. Third party tools and such are nice, but hardly enough of a draw for me to attend such a convention.

What about the other couple hundreds and thousands who attend? That's the whole point of Macworld--the third party stuff!

Obviously coming from someone who hasn't tried to get around Boston in the past, oh, decade or so. I have been in the Boston area for the past ten years. The Big Dig, which is a wholesale rerouting of the major arteries going into Boston so that they run under the city instead of above ground, is not just your average "big city" inconvenience. It is a disaster to navigate around, because any map that you have is guaranteed to be out of date regarding where onramps and offramps are and how to get places. Locals are confused by it but get by. Visitors who have been in the city before tend to get all turned around. Visitors new to the city tend to remark that it seems like no one else around them knew where they were going (but, strangely enough, those who have never been to Boston before tend to get to places the best ...)

Yes, I know MacWorld East started in Boston, and moved out because the (now replaced) center was too small for it. Now that there is more convention space available, that problem has been fixed. But in the meantime a horrendous second problem has arisen: Boston is a traffic nightmare.

If you have not been in Boston recently, I am sorry, but your opinion on how easy Boston is to get around is completely out of date. Boston is a nightmare to navigate, and will remain so until 2010 or so, when the major bits of the Big Dig are scheduled to complete. Or maybe even longer, as the Big Dig was originally supposed to be completely finished by now, and the "finish" date is constantly being moved outward.

I'll admit I haven't been to Boston since I was much younger. But that doesn't matter. Cities are horrible for any traffic. Sure the Big dig is affecting it, but no one can change that. It'll finally end eventually.

It's incredibly bad PR because the financial effects of disasters get written down and publicized. Apple pulling out of NYC will be seen as a result of Sept 11, and will be talked about as such. That's not good publicity. Pulling out of a city is never good publicity, of course, but any other time that would just be local bad pub, not national.

As for "People have to move on" ... blah, blah, blah. It doesn't matter what people "have to" do. People haven't. That's why it would be incredibly bad PR. If/When I rule the world, such moving on will happen in a swift and timely manner. Unfortunately, I do not yet rule the world.

Then it's their problem if they can't move on. Yes people died that day, we respect that. But why should that prevent us from having a normal life again?

You really care who the organizer of an event is? I don't see why the average convention-goer would give two shakes who the organizer is. IDG may own the "MacWorld" name, that's the only negotiating power I can see them having whatsoever. How "visible" is IDG to the MacWorld-going crowd? I find it hard to believe that the "IDG" name behind the event is more well known than "Apple"!!!

To me and I know to some others whom I know, we think not just Apple, but third party stuff. Without Apple, we still have third party stuff to drool at.

They're moving. Get over it. There's nothing you can do about it except contact Apple. Why don't you complain to Apple and force them to realize that they should be attending Macworlds no matter where they are.

 

[gopher]

Goodness...Boston hard to get around? Stay in Somerville or Lexington and take the T (subway) in....even the commuter rail runs from Route 128. I'm sure there are plenty of places near Route 128 you can take public transit into Boston and just avoid the mess of driving into downtown Boston. The T will take you out to the airport, and it will take you to South Station if you come by train. I know how to get around Boston, and I don't even live there. I used to go to school Worcester, which is 40 miles to the west. Big dig or no big dig, if I'm going to Macworld in Boston, I'll use the T to get around, and forget about driving in downtown. There are plenty of ways of getting around. No need to take the car in! Boston is NOT Los Angeles!

 

[wdlove]

Boston Globe 10/22/02 _"MacWorld talks open with Apple" _
Hiawatha Bray _"My gut (feeling) is that they mutually need each other" _"You cannot pull off a MacWorld without Apple. _At the same time, Apple trule needs the credibility & organizing skills of IDG" _Greco has removed the threat of not allowing Apple @ MWSF. I see this as a hopeful sign! _IDG will continue to hold both shows. _Apple will get a bigger say in management of the shows & a forum for new innovations. _Go Charlie & Steve!

 

[wdlove]

Boston Globe 10/22/02 _"MacWorld talks open with Apple" _
Hiawatha Bray _"My gut (feeling) is that they mutually need each other" _"You cannot pull off a MacWorld without Apple. _At the same time, Apple trule needs the credibility & organizing skills of IDG" _Greco has removed the threat of not allowing Apple @ MWSF. I see this as a hopeful sign! _IDG will continue to hold both shows. _Apple will get a bigger say in management of the shows & a forum for new innovations. _Go Charlie & Steve!


Sorry for the duplicate, it won't let me delete!

 

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by gopher
Goodness...Boston hard to get around? Stay in Somerville or Lexington and take the T (subway) in....even the commuter rail runs from Route 128. I'm sure there are plenty of places near Route 128 you can take public transit into Boston and just avoid the mess of driving into downtown Boston. The T will take you out to the airport, and it will take you to South Station if you come by train. I know how to get around Boston, and I don't even live there. I used to go to school Worcester, which is 40 miles to the west. Big dig or no big dig, if I'm going to Macworld in Boston, I'll use the T to get around, and forget about driving in downtown. There are plenty of ways of getting around. No need to take the car in! Boston is NOT Los Angeles!

Yup, I went to school in Worcester too (WPI '95). With the Worcester train station open, commuting in on the train was nice, so long as you work near South Station. The Red Line into Cambridge is okay, but that's the extent of the "pleasant" public transportation. Orange line is abysmal: cramped (unless you get on at the end of the line you are standing room only with almost enough space to draw a breath in) and dirty. Green line is likewise cramped most of the way, and makes so many stops that you can get across town faster walking. Blue line ... the one time I took it (to the Acquarium with my wife and kids) it was having mechanical difficulties and the train had to sit in the tunnel for a half hour ...

Overall, Boston had one of the best subway systems out there ten years ago, but with the combination of massively increased ridership (people avoiding surface delays from the Big Dig) and decreased funding (MA public funds are likewise massively siphoned off to the Big Dig, so no other areas are getting funding increases), they are suffering. Again, directly compared to traveling around New York City (although I haven't been there in the past few years, so correct me if anything has changed regarding getting around town), there is no way I'd choose Boston.

All IMHO, of course.

 

[jettredmont]

I forgot to add: You are right, though. If you are in Boston for more than an hour, get a local T-Pass and shuttle around on the subway. You can reach all the downtown sites on the various lines, although you may have a bit of a walk (or have to call a cab) if you have to go anywhere outside of central Boston/Cambridge (for instance, most of Cambridge is about 20-30 minute's walk from the Red Line ... most of Newton is practically unreachable if memory serves ...).

As bad as the subways are, driving around is much, much worse.

 

[wdlove]

I agree that cost & transporation problems ar about the same in Boston & NY. The new convention center is not in he middle of the Big Dig, but the water front.

 

[iMac]

Okay, I am sorry to use this word, but this is utter bull$hit. Without Apple, there will be no MacWorld! THEY ARE SUCH IDIOTS- THEY THINK THEY CAN BAN THE COMPANY THAT MAKES THE PRODUCT FROM THE EXPO, FOR NOT COMPLYING WITH A GEOGRAPHIC LOCATION?! Apple could probably sue their @$$ for about twenty million dollars on some trademark thing. Puhleeeez! Stupides thing I have ever heard, banning apple from macworld... lol... good divine power, what is this world coming to? sorry for the profanity.

 

[MacCoaster]

Originally posted by iMac
Okay, I am sorry to use this word, but this is utter bull$hit. Without Apple, there will be no MacWorld! THEY ARE SUCH IDIOTS- THEY THINK THEY CAN BAN THE COMPANY THAT MAKES THE PRODUCT FROM THE EXPO, FOR NOT COMPLYING WITH A GEOGRAPHIC LOCATION?! Apple could probably sue their @$$ for about twenty million dollars on some trademark thing. Puhleeeez! Stupides thing I have ever heard, banning apple from macworld... lol... good divine power, what is this world coming to? sorry for the profanity.

IDG has said that without Apple, they will still have Macworlds.

Calm down, neither the employees of Apple Computer, Inc. nor Steve Jobs are god(s/esses).

Apple isn't the company making products from the Expo. There are around 250 other vendors at Macworld. Macworld != only Apple. Macworld == stuff that works with the Mac.

 

[Micho]

Dang it Apple

Now this is the stuf that gets you rated top fifty worst run companys in the 500. COME ON... your great we all love you but get your had out of the hole the world does not revolve around YOU.
If this kind of stuff keeps up then it wont matter how great apples product is or how loyal we as customers are apple will be in the whole for good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!