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Leaving aside all of those who come in with their own opinions on Apple or Climate Change or Carbon itself, the only real question here is whether these particular carbon offsets are legitmate. And if you haven't done the research, either way, opinions on the matter don't count for much, especially in a court of law.

Offsets have been studied pretty extensively, and the offset claims proven overwhelmingly false. There is, though, A LOT of money transferred to claims holders which is its own incentive system. As someone noted previously, offsets should be banned -- there is very little good in them, and they are abused. Apple is a prime abuser gaslighting everyone for years to justify their focus on disposing of phones (Apple's recycling claims are also very suspect).

Tim Apple: Where is our optional iPhone product line inspired by the Fairphone ?? Until we see this, all Apple claims re: Mother Earth are suspect.

Offset claims Link:


 
I don’t understand companies obsession with appearing to be doing everything possible to appear “green” as if they are a nature preserve driven company. Where is this coming from? Is it regulatory driven?
I can’t imagine the public cares.
Also, why am I paying more for something contained in recycled materials? I as the end customer expect to pay less. I’m not buying new material product I’m buying a product made out of recycled used trash.
That goes for fashion, electronics, home goods, disposable goods and materials etc…

I just don’t understand this righteous crusade of marketing and campaigning.
 
No, they don't. Most people just don't say "I buy the worst thing possible because I want to burn down a rainforest." The vast majority say the socially acceptable thing, and then don't factor it in at all.
Maybe but I think more and more consumers are thinking about it and do look favourably on products or companies that claim to be working towards carbon neutrality. Yes it’s misused for marketing purposes but hey if it starts a conversation that encourages more people to be environmentally friendly then that’s a good thing IMO.
 
While environmental responsibility is absolutely important and essential, and we hope that Apple is adhering to these goals honestly, I *highly doubt* that these plaintiffs made their purchasing decision based on the carbon footprint of their Apple Watches. I call BS.
 
Offsets can work if implemented properly (there needs to be a fixed national cap), as they did with sulfur dioxide emissions, but there isn't and it's mostly fodder for marketing.

if emissions is an issue and you want to ban it. you shouldn't be able to offset your said immersions with something else. you need to not create said emissions...period.
 
I don’t understand companies obsession with appearing to be doing everything possible to appear “green” as if they are a nature preserve driven company. Where is this coming from? Is it regulatory driven?
I can’t imagine the public cares.
Also, why am I paying more for something contained in recycled materials? I as the end customer expect to pay less. I’m not buying new material product I’m buying a product made out of recycled used trash.
That goes for fashion, electronics, home goods, disposable goods and materials etc…

I just don’t understand this righteous crusade of marketing and campaigning.

It's consumer-driven, and the marketing does work. People with disposable income tend to navigate towards more environmentally friendly companies, and the numbers that do are growing, quickly.

Recycled trash is a good thing! I would much prefer my device be made with recycled aluminum, for example, then fresh aluminum smelted from bauxite. It's exactly the same product in the end, and it's not worth less because it's recycled.

 
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I mean, we all knew that claiming carbon neutrality for products that will eventually become e-waste is ridiculous, right?

There should be no such thing as "e-waste", so that point is moot. Electronic devices should never end up in landfills, and if they are, that's a separate problem that needs to be solved independently of carbon neutrality.
 
I don’t understand companies obsession with appearing to be doing everything possible to appear “green” as if they are a nature preserve driven company. Where is this coming from? Is it regulatory driven?
I can’t imagine the public cares.
Also, why am I paying more for something contained in recycled materials? I as the end customer expect to pay less. I’m not buying new material product I’m buying a product made out of recycled used trash.
That goes for fashion, electronics, home goods, disposable goods and materials etc…

I just don’t understand this righteous crusade of marketing and campaigning.

Have you ever unwrapped a newly-purchased appliance or electronic device, pulled off plastic wrap, styrofoam and other packing materials that can't be recycled and don't break down in a human lifetime?

That's been the problem. It's WAY cheaper to build up manufacturing processes with these cheap, but irresponsible materials, all in the name of profits and convenience. Multiply that by *billions* and we have an environmental disaster on our hands. We are witnessing that now, after decades of this selfish approach.

It costs money to find a better solution, and there's no excuse not to. We need to take care of our planet while we live on it.
 
No, carbon offsets are meant to sequester the quantity of of carbon dioxide a company is producing and this suit says the numbers don't add up. An established forest really doesn't sequester much of anything, comparatively. Trees acquire the majority of their lifetime carbon in the first 20 years, regardless of how long they live.

It's a marketing gimmick, regardless. If you want to lower your carbon footprint, then output less carbon.

I wholeheartedly agree with your closing statement.

However, from the following, it sounds more like the plaintiffs are arguing that the carbon offsets shouldn't count as it would have happened anyway, not that the numbers don't add up.

"The plaintiffs argue that because these locations were already managed under conservation protections for several decades or naturally heavily forested, Apple's financial support did not lead to a reduction in carbon emissions beyond what would have occurred naturally."
 
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Offsets have been studied pretty extensively, and the offset claims proven overwhelmingly false.

Have the two projects cited in this lawsuit been proven overwhelmingly false?

Apple is a prime abuser gaslighting everyone for years to justify their focus on disposing of phones (Apple's recycling claims are also very suspect).

Do you have specific evidence about Apple being a "prime abuser?" Or that their recycling claims are not what Apple claims them to be?


And here's Verra's response to that study and derived criticisms. Have you studied the data?
 
I hope a new precedent is set. Companies claiming they are neutral because they "purchased" the right to say so without making other real efforts is a disgusting falsification of facts for marketing purposes.
Is Apple not making "other real efforts?"
 
I hope the courts crush these lawsuits. You wouldn't have bought the product if you thought the carbon stuff was different? What a load of horse crap. Some lawyer figured a way to try and get a piece of the Apple bucks and found some idiots to be the front for their scam.
 
Carbon offsetting should be banned. It gives consumers a false sense of how carbon neutral the products they buy are and provides no incentive for companies to innovate and provide genuinely carbon neutral products.

Do you even know what carboin offsetting is? why in the hell should it be banned. How about educating consumers instead.

If anyone would read Apple’s carbon reports, their carbon “footprint” includes, raw material acquisition and processing, manufacturing, 3rd party suppliers, shipping, and even includes the energy use of the device’s estimated lifetime.

The only energy consumption Apple can directly control, is their own office buildings, data centers and retail a stores. But even then retail stores and office building may reside in an area where there is no “Green” energy, so they offset that by dumping any extraneous green energy from their own solar farms, wind farms, hydro plants, etc., onto the grid.
 
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The issue isn't that they used offsets, it's that the offsets were already protected and forested areas. Nothing changed and no new carbon acquisition has or will be happening.

that's pretty much how carbon offsets work

pretty much any "carbon neutral" claim is misleading

it's all just greenwashing
 
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Carbon offsetting should be banned. It gives consumers a false sense of how carbon neutral the products they buy are and provides no incentive for companies to innovate and provide genuinely carbon neutral products.
Nope, if you ban it, no companies will have any advantage to do better. Companies are not human beings to work on that stuff other than ethics you need money and put a sticker on your work since you as a company pay more to achieve this.
 
Idiots out there will do anything for money.

Both the lawyers and the plaintiffs involved should be ashamed.
 
No, they don't. Most people just don't say "I buy the worst thing possible because I want to burn down a rainforest." The vast majority say the socially acceptable thing, and then don't factor it in at all.
The vast majority just don't do any research. And that's not a surprise. We're just the consumer.

Over the millennia, the consumer has many times been guided into making bad decisions; even life-threatening/life-ending decisions!
People expect lawsuits and responses to lawsuits to have great impacts upon our lives. The fact is that these little lawsuits chip away at Apple's greed and send strong warning messages to Apple's competitors to also reduce their carbon footprints. It also pressures Apple to find new ways save energy and reduce carbon emissions through innovation, recycling and yes, market those efforts. Virtue signaling has always been an important factor in social change, even if the ones that signal the strongest are hypocritical in their signaling.
They do nothing to "chip away at (anybody's) greed". They MIGHT cause a company's leaders to decide to do something to lessen the odds of a lawsuit being expensive. But that's not the same thing as appealing to peoples' better judgment.
...It's a marketing gimmick, regardless. If you want to lower your carbon footprint, then output less carbon.
This! ^ Anything else is a scam.
Cmon sometimes people are too picky. It is important anyway, companies should be recognised for their commitment even if the company use it for selling more things obviously. Otherwise it will be only a cost and companies will do nothing to improve their product and distribution. The world has become a whine fest.
You can only do a few things to increase your bottom-line earnings.

1. Make a product or service that people are willing to pay confiscatory rates of money for.
2. Find a less expensive way to make that new product or service.
3. Sell your product or service for less than your competitor can sell his.
4. Avoid losing expensive lawsuits
5. Avoid paying taxes (legally or otherwise)
6. Make somebody else pay you (license your technology to others or get subsidies from governments to build a factory here or battery charging stations there)
I don’t understand companies obsession with appearing to be doing everything possible to appear “green” as if they are a nature preserve driven company. Where is this coming from? Is it regulatory driven?
I can’t imagine the public cares.
Also, why am I paying more for something contained in recycled materials? I as the end customer expect to pay less. I’m not buying new material product I’m buying a product made out of recycled used trash.
That goes for fashion, electronics, home goods, disposable goods and materials etc…

I just don’t understand this righteous crusade of marketing and campaigning.
It's just another way of "hypnotizing" the public and then relying on that to make money. The real problem arises when a company relies on that more than it relies on the fundamentals such as making a better product and keeping your costs below your revenues.
 
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Nope, if you ban it, no companies will have any advantage to do better. Companies are not human beings to work on that stuff other than ethics you need money and put a sticker on your work since you as a company pay more to achieve this.
Where is the incentive to do better if you can simply pay someone else to do it for you.
 
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