Apple Accuses Spotify of 'Resorting to Rumors and Half-Truths', Sets Record Straight on App Rejection

[macass]

" Only a select few are stupid enough to fall for Spotify's accusations.[/QUOTE]

I would say the bitter and resentful who want everything for nothing.

 

[blasto2236]

It should be somewhere between Apple Pay levels and 1%, and the default should be to use the service provider's own billing, so Apple gets nothing by default; companies that don't have their own billing could be charged more, because Apple is providing them something of value. Even Android lets the companies link to their own web sites so you can sign up without having to pay Google some obscene tax. Myself, I would no more pay Apple a single penny for Netflix, Spotify, or whatever service than I would pay the manufacturers of my TV, BD Player, AVR, etc, which also provide the apps.

And yet, I gladly pay a few extra dollars a month for each of these services just so I can have it all managed through my iTunes Store account. It allows me to easily manage all of these subscriptions and turn them on and off as I please from any of my devices. Additionally, because its all tied to my Apple ID, I use a single login for all of these services.

This is a choice I'm making as a consumer. Sure, it costs me a few extra dollars, but I would rather pay Apple for Netflix, Hulu, etc, than manage those accounts on 3+ different websites.

Isn't it great to have choices as a consumer?
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Yeah, except they aren't promoting it. I haven't seen Spotify featured in the music section of the app store in a long time, even though it's consistently one of the highest grossing apps (i.e. making tons of money for Apple).

Another way to look at this whole thing is this: Spotify gives around 70% of their revenue to the artists/rightholders, leaving 30% for Spotify to cover their own expenses. Apple takes 30% of the subscription fee for in-app billing. Obviously, that gives Spotify only 3 choices if they want to support iTunes billing:

- Hand their entire income over to Apple
- Pay less to the artists
- Charge a higher fee for customers who are billed through Apple

And if none of those 3 options are viable, that is no one's problem but Spotify's.

 

[jon3543]

And yet, I gladly pay a few extra dollars a month for each of these services just so I can have it all managed through my iTunes Store account. It allows me to easily manage all of these subscriptions and turn them on and off as I please from any of my devices. Additionally, because its all tied to my Apple ID, I use a single login for all of these services.

This is a choice I'm making as a consumer. Sure, it costs me a few extra dollars, but I would rather pay Apple for Netflix, Hulu, etc, than manage those accounts on 3+ different websites.

Isn't it great to have choices as a consumer?

Oh, I have no problem with Apple billing you directly for the convenience you perceive. That's not an issue at all for me. It's not what we're talking about, though. It's not how it works.

 

[blasto2236]

Oh, I have no problem with Apple billing you directly for the convenience you perceive. That's not an issue at all for me. It's not what we're talking about, though. It's not how it works.

Its exactly what we're talking about, and it is exactly how it works. Take Netflix as a similar example. Until recently, Netflix did not offer an in-app subscription and required you to pay through their site. During this time, I did not subscribe to Netflix. Clearly, they considered the market they were missing out on significant enough to offer an IAP subscription. It got them my money, and I'm sure lots of others.

Spotify is currently capable of doing the exact same thing, but for some reason that's not good enough?

 

[jon3543]

Its exactly what we're talking about, and it is exactly how it works.

No.

 

[John Mcgregor]

This is still going? Unbelievable.

 

[MH01]

It's purchased in apple's marketplace so it gets the fee. They don't like it then don't offer in-app subscription purchases. As long as apple processes the payment, it gets the fee.

We know how it works. He problem here is the market owner has also become a market seller, without having to pay the fees and can under charge the competition
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eBay will take a very dim view of you if you suggest to bidders, who found your item on eBay, that they instead go buy the item direct from you and cut eBay/Paypal out of the picture.

Kind not relevant , as the point is about eBay themselves hosting auctions to under cut sellers .

 

[John Mcgregor]

We know how it works.

Clearly you don't.

 

[MH01]

And yet, I gladly pay a few extra dollars a month for each of these services just so I can have it all managed through my iTunes Store account. It allows me to easily manage all of these subscriptions and turn them on and off as I please from any of my devices. Additionally, because its all tied to my Apple ID, I use a single login for all of these services.

This is a choice I'm making as a consumer. Sure, it costs me a few extra dollars, but I would rather pay Apple for Netflix, Hulu, etc, than manage those accounts on 3+ different websites.

If only it was that easy. I recently got a subscription via the App Store cause I wanted to buy via Apple , to be hassle free, there was a problem with the activation , so I contacted Apple to have to sorted, they were completely useless and just told me to contact the developer directly , so off I went to their website. I thought they would have sorted the activation issue as I bought through the store . That paying extra dollars give you nothing, any support Apple has nothing to do with it , so why pay them
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Clearly you don't.

Which part do I have wrong ? As it's so clear .

 

[John Mcgregor]

If only it was that easy. I recently got a subscription via the App Store cause I wanted to buy via Apple , to be hassle free, there was a problem with the activation , so I contacted Apple to have to sorted, they were completely useless and just told me to contact the developer directly , so off I went to their website. I thought they would have sorted the activation issue as I bought through the store . That paying extra dollars give you nothing, any support Apple has nothing to do with it , so why pay them
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Which part do I have wrong ? As it's so clear .

Which part? Which part? WTF is wrong with you people. Apple has a user base which you can use to sell your apps and services to for a fee. If Apple starts selling something to it's user base does that mean they have to stop taking that fee from other companies and developers that are doing business in the app store because somehow it becomes unfair? Seriously?

Have you ever sold something somewhere? You would know this as common sense if you did.

 

[Michael Scrip]

If only it was that easy. I recently got a subscription via the App Store cause I wanted to buy via Apple , to be hassle free, there was a problem with the activation , so I contacted Apple to have to sorted, they were completely useless and just told me to contact the developer directly , so off I went to their website. I thought they would have sorted the activation issue as I bought through the store . That paying extra dollars give you nothing, any support Apple has nothing to do with it , so why pay them

Man that sucks. So what sort of relationship does Apple have with all these 3rd-party companies? It doesn't sound like they have much.

We know they Apple can handle the payment... but do they have anything to do with your newly-created login information to Spotify, Netflix, etc?

If I sign up for Spotify through Apple... do I get a normal login that I can log into Spotify from a web browser or other device? Or is it just tied to iOS devices?

 

[MH01]

Which part? Which part? WTF is wrong with you people. Apple has a user base which you can use to sell your apps and services to for a fee. If Apple starts selling something to it's user base does that mean they have to stop taking that fee from other companies and developers that are doing business in the app store because somehow it becomes unfair? Seriously?

Have you ever sold something somewhere? You would know this as common sense if you did.

Well done for missing 500 + posts on this discussion , and not being able to comprehend the actual issue of at hand. Seriously...

I'd recommend you read the first post, it's all there, the lawyers actually responded to the raised issue if you still struggle with the issue at hand , happy to use an example to explain it to you.

Just cause YOU believe apple is right does not means thread closed and end of discussion/opinions ! This happens every thread.....geez.

 

[akash.nu]

Man that sucks. So what sort of relationship does Apple have with all these 3rd-party companies? It doesn't sound like they have much.

We know they Apple can handle the payment... but do they have anything to do with your newly-created login information to Spotify, Netflix, etc?

If I sign up for Spotify through Apple... do I get a normal login that I can log into Spotify from a web browser or other device? Or is it just tied to iOS devices?

Apple is just related to the developers to handle the payment and the providing them a platform to sell. They have nothing to do with how an app is developed and how the subscription is handled on the developer end. It's completely up to the developers to deal with their subscribers. That's how software development works.

In Apple's documentation it's clearly mentioned how to handle such implementations and if a service is not working even after paying for it via in app purchase, it's 99.99% developer's fault. That's why Apple sends you to the developer because they really can't do anything about it.

Technically when you signup for a service irrespective of how you pay for it should work the same way. Again, it's up to the developers to get all of this sorted. So if you signup for Spotify or Netflix either via an iOS device or on the web, depending on the business rules applied on your subscription type, should work cross platform.

 

[MH01]

Man that sucks. So what sort of relationship does Apple have with all these 3rd-party companies? It doesn't sound like they have much.

We know they Apple can handle the payment... but do they have anything to do with your newly-created login information to Spotify, Netflix, etc?

If I sign up for Spotify through Apple... do I get a normal login that I can log into Spotify from a web browser or other device? Or is it just tied to iOS devices?

Apple sell the service , handle the payments etc, though any tech Techinical issues seems to fall on the 3rd party.

By buying through apple you get the security that if the 3rd party is not helpful, you can no doubt escalate to apple.

Signing up for Spotify via apple will allow you to use Spotify on any device.

Given the option, and same price , I'll always buy via apple.

99.9% of sign ups and activations will go through without a hitch .

 

[Michael Scrip]

Apple is just related to the developers to handle the payment and the providing them a platform to sell. They have nothing to do with how an app is developed and how the subscription is handled on the developer end. It's completely up to the developers to deal with their subscribers. That's how software development works.

In Apple's documentation it's clearly mentioned how to handle such implementations and if a service is not working even after paying for it via in app purchase, it's 99.99% developer's fault. That's why Apple sends you to the developer because they really can't do anything about it.

Technically when you signup for a service irrespective of how you pay for it should work the same way. Again, it's up to the developers to get all of this sorted. So if you signup for Spotify or Netflix either via an iOS device or on the web, depending on the business rules applied on your subscription type, should work cross platform.

Thanks!

I guess my question was... do you get a "create account" screen from Apple or the 3rd-party?

If I sign up on Spotify's website... I create an account directly with them.

But I'm just curious what it looks like when you do it through Apple.

 

[akash.nu]

Thanks!

I guess my question was... do you get a "create account" screen from Apple or the 3rd-party?

If I sign up on Spotify's website... I create an account directly with them.

But I'm just curious what it looks like when you do it through Apple.

You will always get "create account" from the developer because Apple is not providing you the service at the end of the day. Apple only takes payment. That's about it.

 

[MH01]

Apple is just related to the developers to handle the payment and the providing them a platform to sell. They have nothing to do with how an app is developed and how the subscription is handled on the developer end. It's completely up to the developers to deal with their subscribers. That's how software development works.

In Apple's documentation it's clearly mentioned how to handle such implementations and if a service is not working even after paying for it via in app purchase, it's 99.99% developer's fault. That's why Apple sends you to the developer because they really can't do anything about it.

Technically when you signup for a service irrespective of how you pay for it should work the same way. Again, it's up to the developers to get all of this sorted. So if you signup for Spotify or Netflix either via an iOS device or on the web, depending on the business rules applied on your subscription type, should work cross platform.

You are correct. This only issue from my perspective is that apple takes and holds the money from the customer, the purchase it between me and apple , as they take the payment. Though when it comes to support, it's with the Dev. From my experiece I should be able to report to apple that an app on their store is not is not functioning as described and I would expect apple to have a relationship with the 3rd developer to resolve it. The customer should not be getting billed by apple, than having to contact the 3rd party to see resolve issues between apple/3rd party. In my case the 3rd party said the payment files was not working at times between apple and themselves.

Outside of billing I completely agree that the support falls to the 3rd party, apple has nothing to do with it. Though for purchase, apple is 1st level of support.
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Thanks!

I guess my question was... do you get a "create account" screen from Apple or the 3rd-party?

If I sign up on Spotify's website... I create an account directly with them.

But I'm just curious what it looks like when you do it through Apple.

You will always get "create account" from the developer because Apple is not providing you the service at the end of the day. Apple only takes payment. That's about it.

Akash answered it

 

[Michael Scrip]

You will always get "create account" from the developer because Apple is not providing you the service at the end of the day. Apple only takes payment. That's about it.

Ok cool. Thanks!

 

[akash.nu]

You are correct. This only issue from my perspective is that apple takes and holds the money from the customer, the purchase it between me and apple , as they take the payment. Though when it comes to support, it's with the Dev. From my experiece I should be able to report to apple that an app on their store is not is not functioning as described and I would expect apple to have a relationship with the 3rd developer to resolve it. The customer should not be getting billed by apple, than having to contact the 3rd party to see resolve issues between apple/3rd party. In my case the 3rd party said the payment files was not working at times between apple and themselves.

Outside of billing I completely agree that the support falls to the 3rd party, apple has nothing to do with it. Though for purchase, apple is 1st level of support.

And this is one of the reasons Apple literally force developers to mention in the app description that any refund or payment related dispute needs to be dealt by the developer and not Apple.

Apple has created a robust payment platform that works perfectly. They have millions of transactions going through the platform every minute. If they had to look for specific transactions and then see it through to resolution with the developers right there then don't you think it's a huge overhead?! As a business that will not make sense when it's really easy for the developers to deal with it and Apple does provide the option for developers to refund just with a click of a button.

 

[Michael Scrip]

Akash answered it

Yep!


Comment for you, though: I know you like to have Apple process the payments (as long at it's the same price as buying it directly.)

And like you said... 99.9% of the time it works with no problem.

But it does seems weird to have one company handle the payment and another company handle the rest of the service.

To me... if I want to be a Spotify customer... I'd go straight to the source! Why involve two companies when it can be done by one?

 

[MH01]

And this is one of the reasons Apple literally force developers to mention in the app description that any refund or payment related dispute needs to be dealt by the developer and not Apple.

Apple has created a robust payment platform that works perfectly. They have millions of transactions going through the platform every minute. If they had to look for specific transactions and then see it through to resolution with the developers right there then don't you think it's a huge overhead?! As a business that will not make sense when it's really easy for the developers to deal with it and Apple does provide the option for developers to refund just with a click of a button.

It's part of running a store. You are not there just to take the money, if an issue exists between Apple and the developer, that should not be the customers responsibility. We are along talking about payments here.

Anyway, my initial response was to contact Apple, as I just paid them. In the future I will know not to bother and go straight to the developer .

As you know more about this, what is the dispute resolution path with a developer ? At which stage does Apple get involved ?

 

[akash.nu]

It's part of running a store. You are not there just to take the money, if an issue exists between Apple and the developer, that should not be the customers responsibility. We are along talking about payments here.

Anyway, my initial response was to contact Apple, as I just paid them. In the future I will know not to bother and go straight to the developer .

As you know more about this, what is the dispute resolution path with a developer ? At which stage does Apple get involved ?

Apple generally doesn't get involved unless you're unable to use the service and the developer is refusing to refund your money. If such is the case then you'll have to send any communication transcript to them and the developers have to prove that you were able to use the service after paying. I've never heard anybody getting stuck in this situation to be honest.

 

[MH01]

Yep!


Comment for you, though: I know you like to have Apple process the payments (as long at it's the same price as buying it directly.)

And like you said... 99.9% of the time it works with no problem.

But it does seems weird to have one company handle the payment and another company handle the rest of the service.

To me... if I want to be a Spotify customer... I'd go straight to the source! Why involve two companies when it can be done by one?

Purely for tax purposes in this case. I bought a service I could claim for the company, therefore wanted an Apple reciept with VAT.

Apple UK has apps for many US companies that sell only in US dollars via their websites.

Also, it's a trust and security issue, I'd prefer to have my payment processed by Apple than though a developers website , not a fan of sending my credit card details to 3rd party sites.
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Apple generally doesn't get involved unless you're unable to use the service and the developer is refusing to refund your money. If such is the case then you'll have to send any communication transcript to them and the developers have to prove that you were able to use the service after paying. I've never heard anybody getting stuck in this situation to be honest.

Cool cheers. They no doubt have a well documented dispute resolution in place . I know that customers can be unreasonable often

 

[Michael Scrip]

Also, it's a trust and security issue, I'd prefer to have my payment processed by Apple than though a developers website, not a fan of sending my credit card details to 3rd party sites.

Oh gotcha... that makes sense. I hadn't thought of the security angle.

Another question: is it possible to stop paying Apple for Spotify and then start paying Spotify directly? Can Apple just transfer your information to Spotify... or do you need to create a whole new account?

That's what I was thinking with the "why have two companies" comment. It just adds another layer.

If I can do everything through Spotify directly... then there's not another company involved.

It's the same reason I never create a new account on a website using Facebook or Google login. I want my username and password to belong to the site itself... not being passed through some other company.

I guess I'm weird like that

 

[MH01]

Oh gotcha... that makes sense. I hadn't thought of the security angle.

Another question: is it possible to stop paying Apple for Spotify and then start paying Spotify directly? Can Apple just transfer your information to Spotify... or do you need to create a whole new account?

That's what I was thinking with the "why have two companies" comment. It just adds another layer.

If I can do everything through Spotify directly... then there's not another company involved.

It's the same reason I never create a new account on a website using Facebook or Google login. I want my username and password to belong to the site itself... not being passed through some other company.

I guess I'm weird like that

Spotify even have a support page for users on how to cancel and sign up for cheaper

https://support.spotify.com/uk/acco...-paying-for-spotify-through-itunes-cost-more/

You just use the same account.

Your Spotify account has nothing to so with your appleid. Only apple associates your appleid to the purchase made with Spotify app. You don't use your Apple ID to login into Spotify , you have to create a Spotify account .

I'm with you on that , I never log into services using Facebook or google etc, I keep them Seperate. Not an issue with apple cause you cannot use your appleid to login into anything but apple services and devices