Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
My point was that the poster said, "no one makes these sub sized laptops." - implying that there is no longer a market. Per your car analogy, it would be like saying, "Saturn cars were a fad that ultimately failed, so nobody makes small cheap cars anymore." To which I would respond, "the market is still there, but other car makers took Saturn's market share."

No, my car analogy is that a less expensive car is outselling a more expensive one by a sizable margin, and even still both companies have profitable business models. It has noting to do with fads. Not sure how you even infer that from my analogy. Both the Camry and 3 series have been around for a long time. Neither are fads nor are they direct competitors even though they are both cars just like the Chromebook and MBA are both sub-notebooks.
 
Without Steve

Clearly Apple is struggling without Steve. Steve never did a market research. He always thought of future. But the current team is clueless.

They should not launch larger screen or cheap phone. Current size is the perfect size for any phone. If you want bigger screen, the go for the tablet.
 
We don't want bigger iPhone.

Earlier today, a woman fell down in a tram because she had both hands with her BIG Samsung phone. She could not use one hand to do whatever she was doing. So once again, we do not need a bigger iPhone!
 
Image

Woo hoo! Sub $300 iPhones!

Wait... you think they latched onto that phablet nonsense?
Yea I'd say so. Apple's not dumb, just arrogant. They know why people are leaving the iPhone in scores. But they waited a year (possibly longer) to debut a larger device because they like to think that it doesn't matter how much smaller, slower, what have you, the iPhone is because, well, it's an iPhone. They knew people would turn out in huge numbers just because it was a new iPhone. HOWEVER, with bigger, faster (and sometimes also cheaper), smartphones, people no longer have the same '07/'08-era infatuation with Apple's flagship product.
 
Clearly Apple is struggling without Steve. Steve never did a market research. He always thought of future. But the current team is clueless.



They should not launch larger screen or cheap phone. Current size is the perfect size for any phone. If you want bigger screen, the go for the tablet.


I disagree because people differ widely in terms of physical size and personal preferences. A person with wide fingers may find it much easier to type on a phone with a larger display and virtual keyboard. A person who values compactness may want a smaller device.

Not everyone wants a phone and a tablet. What if a person can afford only one of these devices?

Apple offers it's other products in multiple sizes. I don't see why iPhone is offered only in one size!
 
Really dont care how much it is. I only upgrade every 3 years and when i do buy the thing outright. Just give me a bigger screen. Don't care about much else.
 
How about we have 2 sizes. It works for tablets, let's do the same for phones and stop this endless pointless discussion. Many people like the current size (just look at the sales), some people prefer larger screens. So make 2 and satisfy both. Next.
 
If Apple is really going to release a 5 inch iPhone, the resolution will have to increase to keep it Retina. It will then need more memory and a better GPU. What will that do the ones who want the best spec'ed phone but still prefer a small size?
 
Ah yes Apple finally walks out of the fog into the bright sunshine, realizing denial's not working and admits they've been wrong about the marketplace.

Fat and happy having gorged themselves on customer cash from those who worship the logo, Apple sets out on a journey to catch up and be relevant. This is good news.

Better late than never :)
 
Earlier today, a woman fell down in a tram because she had both hands with her BIG Samsung phone. She could not use one hand to do whatever she was doing. So once again, we do not need a bigger iPhone!

I am so bad I laughed at this. But to this point. The fingerprint scanner on the iPhone is so easy to use one handed. On the new S5 you can't use it one hand lol.
 
I look at these charts and am just amazed that Apple needs to look at documents like this for motivation to build a bigger phone. For the last 2 years, consumers' tastes has shifted to large screen devices. Does Apple actually pay an outside firm to create a document like this, and then say "oh, we did not know this." Do the execs live in a cave? Apple has let Samsung catch-up in the smartphone market because they failed to act. It's a corporation filled with hubris, a culture started by Jobs himself. They thought that since they believed a 3.5" was the best phone, everyone else in the world should to. They were wrong, and now Samsung is nipping at their heels. Failure to release a mid-tier phone and a larger-screened iPhone cost Apple 60 million iPhone sales in 2013 IMO, and incalculable lost revenue in the future. There's a reason that their stock trades at 8 times earnings. It's hubris. No one is right, but Apple. That's fine when your releasing entirely new products, but when you start releasing these half-azzed iterations every 12 months, you're gonna have to start paying attention to what the consumer demands. This model of releasing a "new" iPhone every year is not gonna work much longer. They need to snip 3-5 months off their upgrade cycle.
 
Why do you think they are suing each other??

Obviously you won't find any patents Apple licenses from Samsung since Samsung claims Apple arn't licensing them and are instead using them without permission {and vice versa}. That said Samsung is the single largest mobile patent technology holder in the world it would be absurd and childish to think that Apple isn't using some of their technology and vice versa.



http://www.redmondpie.com/this-grap...any-patents-apple-holds-and-youll-be-shocked/

Lol, you are arguing only with yourself!!
NOBODY questioned whether Samsung owns patents. The question posed was: is Samsung the driving factor in the majority of the innovation in Android currently? There are some interesting opinions both pro & con. I was just debunking a claim that paraphrased, said: "of course Samsung is very innovative; just look at all the things they "develop" for Apple". The immediate response was that Samsung may "manufacture" parts for Apple, but that is a far cry from developing technologies so innovative that Apple has no choice but to license them or steal them... they simply cannot exist without them.
 
You might not have large hands then if 4.3 inch was "painful".

I consider myself to have large hands and the area I've highlighted on my Note 3 indicates the parts I can reach with one hand. And this is a 5.7 inch screen. That top curve is where my thumb can stretch to.

There must be a lot of folks on here with only one arm. What is your other hand doing when you're loving the fact you can use your 4" iPhone with one hand.

----------

I'll mail the first person that responds to this $1000(all I can afford :)if a 4.7" iPhone 6 doesn't outsell a 4" version (new or old) 2 to 1 in it's full quarter of release. 75%+ of iPhone sales this Christmas will be 4.7" or larger.

----------

Agreed. The "I must have a big ass screen on my phone or it's junk" is simplistic, lowest common denominator thinking. No thought about the several different facets that makes the phone a pleasure to use, just blind "It has to be BIGGER!" Android cutting boards remind me of American cars in the 60's and, later, the 70's. HUGE and CRAP.

Millions feel the same way, but tens of millions have a different opinion than yours. Apple is a for-profit corporation, and needs to give consumers a choice in screen size.

----------

I'd bet that if the larger iPhone stays at the same price points as the 5S, it will bury the smaller phone in sales. Even more so if it is the flagship phone as in 5S vs 5C.

Agree with you there. 3/1 or 4/1

----------

Apple makes premium products and that's why I buy apple products. They don't ship junk and I don't want junk. Apple needs to stay premium and let samsung have the crappy phone market. I would not mind paying a 1k for a phone from Apple if they make it worth it. Am I the only one that would pay more for an awesome phone?

It would be a disaster if they released a 4.7" flagship and then kept the old specs on the 4". They need to have the phones be identical, other than the screen size.

----------

So what you're saying is that you drop your phone alot? See I never drop my phone seems like a trivial reason to increase screen size.

Go to Amazon, she'll out $99 for a 2-year $50 deductible squaretrade plan. The thought of dropping your phone will seldom pop into your head.
 
Lol, you are arguing only with yourself!!
NOBODY questioned whether Samsung owns patents. The question posed was: is Samsung the driving factor in the majority of the innovation in Android currently? There are some interesting opinions both pro & con. I was just debunking a claim that paraphrased, said: "of course Samsung is very innovative; just look at all the things they "develop" for Apple". The immediate response was that Samsung may "manufacture" parts for Apple, but that is a far cry from developing technologies so innovative that Apple has no choice but to license them or steal them... they simply cannot exist without them.

Forgive me what I read of your post quoted below certainly sounds different to what you are saying above.

You're not naming anything innovative that Samsung designs & Apple licenses or purchases that is not Foxconn-like (conveyor belt)... Are you going somewhere with this??

To which I replied obviously their was whether legally, unknowingly, secretly or otherwise just as Samsung i'm sure uses others's ideas.

Just a quick googling would tell you Samsung owns roughly 12.5% of the LTE patent portfolio and it is one group of patents apple is using which samsung claims they arn't paying for through most of the cases have been dismissed on FRAND grounds.

Now as to whether Samsung is the main innovator in the android space well then I would agree with you that Samsung is most definitely not that honor is obviously Google's. Through their is no doubt setting mobile operating systems aside that Samsung is if not the biggest one of the biggest contributors to the "cell phone" in general they have a vast array of patents in GSM, EDGE, 3G, LTE, DRAM, NAND, Display technology and a host of other cell-phone related tech.
 
How about we have 2 sizes. It works for tablets, let's do the same for phones and stop this endless pointless discussion. Many people like the current size (just look at the sales), some people prefer larger screens. So make 2 and satisfy both. Next.

Sales are for iPhone, not the 4" size.

2 phones maybe, but the 4" form factor will look as dated as iOS 6 once Apple can do a quality 4.5" phone. Then there's the crowd that don't want a phone AND an iPad and don't mind a huge phone if it doubles as an iPad. And yes, that could be the death of the iPad mini. Here's why…

This year could turn out to be very interesting for Apple. Having conceded on size for the iPad mini, the iPad Air has pretty much displaced any need for an iPad mini. Jobs was right, we just had to be patient. If you can make a full sized iPad light enough, there's no real need for a mini—except for a small 'it must fit in my purse' segment, who frankly, are buying large phones because they don't want 2 devices.

I don't, however, see making a larger iPhone in the same (we don't need the mini) light. We expect a lot more from out phones now. We do a lot more with our phones, now.

Original iPhone was a disruption in 2007, because nobody had made a smart phone that worked properly before. By today's standards, Original iPhone barely functioned as an internet/computing device. In 2014, things are very different—nobody wants to view a 'mobile site' on their phone, they just want the full featured site to work, and be readable.

In 2007, showing grandma a reasonable photo on your phone was a miracle. These days, if grandma doesn't already have a phone with a camera herself, she expects to be able to SEE the photo on the phone - clearly. (Why are your photos so small? Your less tech savvy relative has a nice big Android phone and everything is much "clearer".)

Remembering that design decisions are often made 2 years before sale of a device, Apple may have been able to stick their head in the sand in 2010 and think iPhone only needed to be 'larger' at 4", but when that phone made it to market in 2012, iPhone 5 was way behind customer expectations. Er, but feel how light it is?? Neat, eh?

2012/iPhone 5 should have been Schiller's moment of realisation that Apple was no longer "magical". And this is the REAL disappointment - it took another year and a Samsung ad/the tech-genius of the Wall St journal to wake him up!?? Dumb-old Samsung figured it out earlier than Apple and started banging the drum about leading expectations, even if the product wasn't much good, it could LOOK like it was good.

2012 should have been the wake-up call, and an emergency iPhone 6 (4.3" at least) should have been rushed ahead for 2013 to recapture the mindshare.

I'd love a 5" display (if the phone was no bigger than the display), but frankly 4.3" in the current form-factor would be an immense improvement on 4". I'd be happy with that, even in 2014. And that's the tragedy of Apple's folly—tiny increase in diagonal, massive increase in screen size, and Apple missed the opportunity to take size out of the equation. You hardly hear iPhone and flagship in the same sentence anymore.

4.7" would be a bigger improvement again, maybe even start looking gigantic, but would it be enough for the 'one device' folks?

I never gave much credence to the big & bigger iPhone 6 rumours, but I can see it now. I don't need a tablet-phone for my pocket, but I can understand the 'one device' people might want an even bigger phone. And the iPad Air pretty much made iPad mini obsolete, so there's room in the line for an even bigger phone…

Interesting times ahead.
 
Last edited:
In certain circumstances. The innovators dilemma does not mean that you totally ignore customers and fail to give them what they want.

You should listen to customer feedback, but you should not design your products solely off a customer survey. You listen, you consider, and you only do what makes sense to you and your vision of the product.



Apple does need new innovative products, but I disagree that the iPhone is over. The slide shows that smartphones are still growing rapidly, and I haven't noticed them becoming any less important in our daily lives.

The vision of the future Steve Jobs left Apple with is that of the Post-PC era. The PC is no longer the hub of your digital experience; it's but another device. The future is a digital ecosystem consisting of a multitude of devices.

- The role of the smartphone in that future is that it is a portable companion which provides a large screen with which you can do certain kinds of tasks well (communication, location-based services, quick web browsing, etc).

- The role of the tablet is more uncertain. It certainly does certain types of tasks better than a smartphone (e.g. gaming, longer web browsing, certain creative tasks), but it is less portable and more likely a couch or travelling device.

- Apple's next play seems to be wearables. Those devices are much more personal than any of the other categories since you physically attach them to your body. What kinds of things could a wearable device be better at doing?

The interesting thing about this vision is that it relies on a critical infrastructure which Apple critically lacks: the cloud. The cloud ties all of these devices together and enables separate devices to work coherently with a single person and what they're doing. Apple are finding it very difficult to build a solid cloud platform.

It's not an immediate concern - despite the rhetoric, they aren't that far behind their competitors. However, it is a very serious medium/long-term concern. Google Now vs. Siri is one example of where Apple's cloud services are lacking, but if they don't catch up quickly the "cloud gap" could start manifesting itself in more and more important ways.

Apple have strengths - they can build exceptionally good standalone devices (including the software which powers it). The question for Apple's future is whether or not they can build an overall platform which encompasses multiple devices which is just as good.

I think the iWatch will sell well for one big reason. I don't want to unpocket my phone every time it rings or I get a notification. I'm willing to pay $300 to avoid doing that, along with the multitude of health sensors it should have, when released. I imagine health-conscience consumers (tens of millions) will be big buyers, if Apple does it right.
 
The Moto X shows that you can have an effective device without a huge footprint. Apple gave Tim Cook $74 million last year and they have admitted that they don't have what the consumer wants. What is going on? Get a CEO who has a pair.
 
I don't want a screen that I can't comfortably use with one hand. To me that means that the 5s is about the limit. Anything bigger and its a small tablet not a phone.
 
I don't want a screen that I can't comfortably use with one hand. To me that means that the 5s is about the limit. Anything bigger and its a small tablet not a phone.

Someone hasn't used a Moto X. if you call that a phablet, damn you must have tiny, tiny hands.

----------

The Moto X shows that you can have an effective device without a huge footprint. Apple gave Tim Cook $74 million last year and they have admitted that they don't have what the consumer wants. What is going on? Get a CEO who has a pair.

You know absolutely nothing about Apple's product lineup and what they are developing. Making uninformed comments such as that are...rather unwise.
 
Clearly Apple is struggling without Steve. Steve never did a market research. He always thought of future. But the current team is clueless.

They should not launch larger screen or cheap phone. Current size is the perfect size for any phone. If you want bigger screen, the go for the tablet.

the current size is perfect for you. not everyone feels the same. apple will keep the 4 inch around but they also understand there are a number of consumers who want a bigger screen phone which is why they are releasing one.

it baffles me how many people on this thread keeps on insisting the the current phone size is right for everyone when it is not.

its like a SUV. Not everyone likes driving them, but every car maker makes them because they realize some consumer want/need a SUV.

im starting think the people who keep comparing phablets to actual tablets never used a phablet before. At one time I had an ipad mini and a note 2. There is a huge difference between using a 5.5 screen and an almost 8 inch screen.
 
No, my car analogy is that a less expensive car is outselling a more expensive one by a sizable margin, and even still both companies have profitable business models. It has noting to do with fads.

While we're talking about cars, how come Apple gets so much grief about innovation and being revolutionary?

Mercedes have just made different sized, premium vehicles for 88 years.

"Hey Mercedes - where's my jetpack - or my hover board?" Nobody predicts their demise just because they take a good product and make it better.
 
Um, the reason for the sales slowing year after year is that the market is freaking saturated. That's an inevitability in most markets, especially those focused on selling expensive gadgets that last longer than what the maker would prefer. This is why the tech companies spend so much effort on obsoleting previous generations of product.

There is nothing in the real world that can grow perpetually. That's a delusion of Wall Street and general greed.
 
No, my car analogy is that a less expensive car is outselling a more expensive one by a sizable margin, and even still both companies have profitable business models. It has noting to do with fads. Not sure how you even infer that from my analogy. Both the Camry and 3 series have been around for a long time. Neither are fads nor are they direct competitors even though they are both cars just like the Chromebook and MBA are both sub-notebooks.

There's really something important people should get from your post(s). And I've said it before too. For a company to succeed - it doesn't mean others must fail or are failing.

Further - I find the mentality of some that because they like company x, that companies y and z suck and could never be company x or wish they were company x.

Unrelated but I am reminded of the Avis' ad campaign that began in 1962 which was brilliant. "We are only #2 so We try harder."
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.