Apple Acknowledges Consumers Want Larger and Cheaper Phones

[subsonix]

You are comparing larger phones with being a simple 'fad' similar to sub size laptops of six years ago? Any day now everyone will start shunning the functionality and experiences afforded by larger screen sizes and demand screens return to the original small size of yesteryear? So, in your view the future is really behind us. Interesting argument.

I already explained my "view", in a direct answer. Of course, at the time I did, the last straw man argument did not exist as you went on and edited you comment again. Let me know if it's something you don't understand in the last response, then we can go over it together.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

I comfortably use my LG G2 with a 5.2" screen in one hand. What kid of girly hands do you all have that you can't operate a 5" device with one hand? The only time I ever use two hand on my phone is in landscape mode while watching videos.

So then you admit a 5" isn't for everyone. Girly hands exist, especially on ladies. Fantastic you can one hand your G2. Pick up your Gold Medal at the front desk when leaving.

 

[iamPro]

I have to agree with the previous poster.
I'm not aware of anything Samsung manufactures for Apple where they operate as more than a "dumb" factory- for example: processors, that they did not design, merely produce en masse... etc.
Certainly I am unaware of something innovative that Samsung & Samsung alone has created and as such, is the only supplier for said amazing technology to Apple.... What in particular were you referencing??

I'm no Samsung fan and I despise how they "copy" Apple.
But am I reading this right? So Samsung is just another Foxconn?
What about the mass amount of Samsung patents? Flexible display, display technology, the screen apple uses, semi conductor, etc. just to name a few. And isn't Samsung also one of the companies that design ARM processors (not that the apple chip was designed by them)? Even their manufacturing tech/capability can't be ignored.

 

[Mockenrue]

And the Camry outsold the BMW 3 series 4 to 1 last month. What's your point?

My point was that the poster said, "no one makes these sub sized laptops." - implying that there is no longer a market. Per your car analogy, it would be like saying, "Saturn cars were a fad that ultimately failed, so nobody makes small cheap cars anymore." To which I would respond, "the market is still there, but other car makers took Saturn's market share."

 

[iTycho]

Fair enough. On the flip side - their camera software and tech blows other Android OEMs away.

I will indeed give them that!
Software optimizations in camera can actually trump physically better camera parts; that's fairly impressive!! (although, perhaps not necessarily innovative) ;0)

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I'm no Samsung fan and I despise how they "copy" Apple.
But am I reading this right? So Samsung is just another Foxconn?
What about the mass amount of Samsung patents? Flexible display, display technology, the screen apple uses, semi conductor, etc. just to name a few. And isn't Samsung also one of the companies that design ARM processors (not that the apple chip was designed by them)? Even their manufacturing tech/capability can't be ignored.

You're not naming anything innovative that Samsung designs & Apple licenses or purchases that is not Foxconn-like (conveyor belt)... Are you going somewhere with this??

 

[tentales]

Phablets fad will fade

I suppose you can count me in the minority. I want a phone with all the latest
features and CPU, but the size of an iPhone4. My iPhone5 is even larger than I'd really like. I understand some folks want a large screen, but for me (and many others), we want something that easily fits in our pockets, yet has all the features. If one needs something larger, that's what the MBA or iPad is for.

Exactly! I want the iPhone 4 form factor & design with the feature set and processor of the 5S or the future 6.

This large phone hype is driven by those that want tablet features in a phone.
The phablet serves neither purpose well, it's a 50/50 compromise between an iPad and an iPhone 4.

Personally, I have an iPad Air for true tablet size and performance and an iPhone 5S for the light small portability factor. I don't play games on my phone or watch video, but I do listen to music, check my calendar, set an alarm and oh yea... make/take phone calls !

Subverting a phone to replace your tablet, like your tablet replaced your notebook, is just not practical in the long run.

One day, we'll have the "iBeam" in a tiny package that will manifest a 3D image that we can manipulate with gestures. Think R2D2. Then you can scale images up or down to everyone's gusto.

Apple during Steve's reign did not cater to every whim or fashion. He set a standard to follow with defined sizes of products and it proved successful.

Now with the iPad Mini or keyboard cases doubling the iPad's weight or oversized/multiple iPhones in the pipelines, Apple runs the risk of repeating the outgrowths that led to its near death experience back in the 90s.

Steve had it right!

 

[theheadguy]

In the abstract the similarities are, research shows market demand for a "different size", "cheaper" version of what we have. My point is that Apple's response my be some other "thing", that meets that demand, or no response at all. As we have seen before. What I am not saying is that Apple will or will not release a larger screen phone, if anything I say I don't know.

I already explained my "view", in a direct answer. Of course, at the time I did, the last straw man argument did not exist as you went on and edited you comment again. Let me know if it's something you don't understand in the last response, then we can go over it together.

Relax, friend. Nobody is attacking you. It's very insightful to proclaim that they may do "some other thing" or have no response at all. You've thoroughly captured all available options, except one-- offer an iPhone with a larger screen. Just stay calm when they do this.

That's the Chromebook market, which outsold all Apple notebooks by a considerable margin last year - 9.6% of all computers for Chromebooks vs. 1.8% for Apple notebooks. There's still a market. Would anyone complain if there was an 11" Macbook Air with "unapologetically plastic" case and lesser specs for $300-$400?

It's a different product than the Eee PC, maybe the market is partly the same but then it also shares a lot with the iPad so the direct comparison to regular laptops isn't really fair.

How so?

 

[notrack]

That you know of. Again, most of us are going on how we perceive Tim and Steve during keynote presentations and interviews.

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Well, yes, I'll have to amend my wording. The way I see Tim is that he hasn't got the sense for style and detailed design like Steve. As you said, the information base for my impression is limited to the keynotes, an interview video (D11) and public press stuff. I don't know him personally. So I would be more than happy if he proves me wrong!

 

[rtomyj]

Samsung does develop the technology. Learn how the system works.

Alright, then where is there a 64 bit chip? Where is there dual core a six like chip that has amazing benchmarks with only two cores? Where was their retina quality display when the retina iPhone came out? Apple designs stuff, then they hire other people to make it for them. That is like me making a recipe, giving it to you, and you taking credit for it. Actually that does sound like Samsung.

 

[MattyW]

I will indeed give them that!
Software optimizations in camera can actually trump physically better camera parts; that's fairly impressive!! (although, perhaps not necessarily innovative) ;0)

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You're not naming anything innovative that Samsung designs & Apple licenses or purchases that is not Foxconn-like (conveyor belt)... Are you going somewhere with this??

Why do you think they are suing each other??

Obviously you won't find any patents Apple licenses from Samsung since Samsung claims Apple arn't licensing them and are instead using them without permission {and vice versa}. That said Samsung is the single largest mobile patent technology holder in the world it would be absurd and childish to think that Apple isn't using some of their technology and vice versa.

Wrong, Apple is in fact 31st on the list with around a thousand registered patents, while friend/foe Samsung tops the chart, with close to 12000 in total. Apple’s seem to just be more high profile due to it being one of the most talked-about companies on the planet. LG and RIM are fairly high up, in at 13th and 15th respectively, while HTC is way down in 38th in the count-up of protected innovation. Check out the chart below and see which company stands where, you might want to click it to get a better view of it:

http://www.redmondpie.com/this-grap...any-patents-apple-holds-and-youll-be-shocked/

 

[WannaGoMac]

Expensive?.. a 4s?....what we talking about... 120. Notes on a good day.......mm..I suppose we all have different yard sticks..

It's a 64gb model that i bought for many hundred a couple years ago ass.

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So what you're saying is that you drop your phone alot? See I never drop my phone seems like a trivial reason to increase screen size.

Famous last words. I said the same all the time for several years, until this year it happened a couple of times..

 

[MattyW]

Alright, then where is there a 64 bit chip? Where is there dual core a six like chip that has amazing benchmarks with only two cores? Where was their retina quality display when the retina iPhone came out? Apple designs stuff, then they hire other people to make it for them. That is like me making a recipe, giving it to you, and you taking credit for it. Actually that does sound like Samsung.

Samsung invented high res mobile displays before the iphone 1 even came out let alone the retina iphone 3 years later, seriously you come across as half deranged if you think Samsung spent it's entire 10.4 billion dollar R&D budget and didn't actually manage to design anything new...

http://www.samsung.com/us/news/3575

Seoul, Korea - March 27, 2007: Samsung Electronics
Co., Ltd., the world’s largest provider of thin-film transistor, liquid
crystal display (TFT-LCD) panels announced today that it has developed
a 2.1” LCD panel for high-end mobile devices that will provide qVGA resolution
and comes equipped with sensors designed to adjust brightness to optimize
ambient lighting. Screen brightness is automatically adjusted to enhance
readability under any lighting condition.

http://blog.gsmarena.com/samsung-ranks-second-as-top-rd-spender-intel-and-microsoft-close-by/

Booz & Company has released its annual study of Research & Development expenditure and has identified the top 20 biggest investors in the world. Car maker Volkswagen tops the chart with $11.4 billion spent in 2013, but Samsung is close behind with $10.4, taking the second spot.

 

[subsonix]

Relax, friend. Nobody is attacking you. It's very insightful to proclaim that they may do "some other thing" or have no response at all.

I'm not claiming that it's insightful, in fact I'm surprised that it needs to be pointed out.

How so?

Are you questioning if an EeePC is a different product than a Chromebook, if the market is the same or if it's partly the same market as the iPad.

 

[Count Blah]

Fixed.
Anyways, didn't we debunk the whole 64-bit only being good with 4 gigs of RAM thing?

Not really, since "good" is subjective. What you did not debunk is the pitiful performance of safari with its constant refreshing of tabs. I'm sure you'll say that RAM is not a factor. But I don't see how you can possibly make that claim with a straight face.

 

[rtomyj]

Samsung invented high res mobile displays before the iphone 1 even came out let alone the retina iphone 3 years later, seriously you come across as half deranged if you think Samsung spent it's entire 10.4 billion dollar R&D budget and didn't actually manage to design anything new...

1) Go back and read my previous posts, never once do I say samsung doesn't "invent" things.
2) I've spent money on books for college that I've never used. Point being, you can spend on pretty much nothing.
3) Why was Apple one of the the first companies to have a beautiful display. As I recall androids of that time had horrible color accuracy, etc.
4) How does Apple have patents for their technology other companies make? Surely Sammy and others should have them, right?
5) quick search http://m.wikihow.com/Manufacture-an-Invention. Pretty much (can't believe I have to spell it out to be honest )
A) Apple designs something ie the archecture of the A7 chip (following me?)
B) They then can make it themselves (they don't really have factories) or they can find a partner to make it for them. (Still not lost, right?)
C ) a partner could be Sammy that then makes it for apple at a cost.
Who invented it? Hard question I know. Or maybe I am half deranged
6) I believe the key difference between apples high res mobile displayed and the others was the strain on battery... Don't quote me on it, however.

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Not really, since "good" is subjective. What you did not debunk is the pitiful performance of safari with its constant refreshing of tabs. I'm sure you'll say that RAM is not a factor. But I don't see how you can possibly make that claim with a straight face.

Never did I say iOS couldn't benefit from more ram, and never will I. Of course more ram on iOS, or on my computer, or on my Androids will be amazing. "Pitiful performance is subject as well, bud. Any who you were claiming or inferring i suppose that the real benefit of 64 bit is higher ram, which is untrue.

 

[jwestveer]

Bigger? No thanks.

Bigger phone? No thanks, it sticks out of my pocket already. How about thinner or better battery life instead.

 

[theheadguy]

I'm not claiming that it's insightful, in fact I'm surprised that it needs to be pointed out.

I'm glad, because it wasn't. You were simply handed undue credit.

Are you questioning if an EeePC is a different product than a Chromebook, if the market is the same or if it's partly the same market as the iPad.

Why do you feel it is unfair to compare the Chromebooks with sub size laptops?

 

[MaSx]

Lol

 

[subsonix]

You were simply handed undue credit.

Was I? I assumed you were being ironic. Regardless, it needed to pointed out in spite of its obviousness.

Why do you feel it is unfair to compare the Chromebooks with sub size laptops?

The size part. Anatomy has been brought up as a case against larger screen phones, previously by Apple, and by others. The same argument could be heard against the non full size keyboard of these sub sized laptops at the time.

 

[Max(IT)]

Especially as American carriers are moving to the unsubsidized model like the rest of the world. Hey! We agreed again!!

Now I'm really worried

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People constantly argue what size is the best. It's an impossible argument because there is no such thing as the best size for a smartphone. Just like there's no perfect size for a laptop or tablet.

Apple should, and will, develop multiple sizes for their consumers. My prediction is this:

2014:
- Apple releases the iPhone 6 (4.7")
- Apple releases the 6C (5s internals, no fingerprint)
- Apple releases continue to sell the 4s (aka iPad 2 of the iPhone world)

This gives you three different iPhone sizes for your consumers, while keeping margins high with the still capable 4s.

2015:
- Apple releases the iPhone 6s (rinse and repeat with other s designs)
- Apple releases iPhone 6SC (lol?). The iPhone 6C with iPhone 6 internals
- Apple releases iPhone Nano. A ridiculously thin / small smartphone w/ 3.5" screen.

We'll see how close I am

No phablets ?

 

[AppleScruff1]

Now I'm really worried

ROFLMAO! It is frightening, isn't it? See, I'm not as bad as you thought.

 

[Max(IT)]

If this is the path Apple is taking, I fear they'll really be the new Sony.

This will never happen ... They are completely different

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But 4.7" is a good entry point, IMO. It will be a noticeable increase, but not overly so. I think it is a safe, conservative approach and I personally don't see Apple taking chances on this.

Yep. A direct jump from 4" to 5" could be dangerous .... A lot of people like iPhones because they are compact devices.
TBH I'm not sure I would buy a 5" iPhone: it's not big enough to be a phablet (and take the place of my nexus 7) but it's too big to be defined as a small phone ....

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I comfortably use my LG G2 with a 5.2" screen in one hand. What kid of girly hands do you all have that you can't operate a 5" device with one hand? The only time I ever use two hand on my phone is in landscape mode while watching videos.

Sorry, I just don't believe anyone saying he could manage a 5+" device with one end.
I have normal hands, and the 4.5-4.7" is the very limit for me ...

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I'm sorry but this is an overrated, old and tired excuse. One hand operation in touchscreen era is complete BS.

Yes you can operate iPhone using one hand. Then I can do it on a big Android too. But the point is, one handed operation is not comfortable for a long period. It's for emergency situations for when it's not possible to use your phone with both hands e.g when you're commuting, eating, cooking etc.

For regular use, two hands operation is the most efficient and comfortable. I could type faster, and more accurate.

So I would gladly embrace the new bigger iPhone.

There are tons of occasions when I NEED to operate my phone one handed .... and with 5+" display this is just impossible, no matter what naysayers are saying (maybe Lebron James could ...)

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I could scroll, tap and read my email just fine on a HTC One. Yes it's almost impossible to type with one hand ona bigger screen, but I can barely do it on an iphone too. The furthest key like QAZ on the keyboard is barely reachable so I woudn't use it in regular basis.

If you're complaining about one handed operation, do you remember Blackberry? Much much smaller phone but did you see anyone's complaining about lack of one-hand-usability?

HTC One still is a compact device , like Moto X.

----------

The iPhone costs $800 now. More, depending on the model.

It starts at about 650$ IIRC .....

 

[AppleScruff1]

There are tons of occasions when I NEED to operate my phone one handed ..

Maybe you should rephrase that.

 

[MattyW]

1) Go back and read my previous posts, never once do I say samsung doesn't "invent" things.

Forgive me but after reading this post that was the implication I got...

Alright, then where is there a 64 bit chip? Where is there dual core a six like chip that has amazing benchmarks with only two cores? Where was their retina quality display when the retina iPhone came out? Apple designs stuff, then they hire other people to make it for them. That is like me making a recipe, giving it to you, and you taking credit for it. Actually that does sound like Samsung.

By exactly the same metrics you can say where were apple's dual core phone's in most of 2011? Where are apple's HD+ displays? Where were apple's <8" tablet's prior to the mini? Where are apple's larger phones {as this article concedes possibly in development}, Where are apple's phones with NFC, where were apple's phones with LTE when android had it for years... etc. Ad nauseam.

2) I've spent money on books for college that I've never used. Point being, you can spend on pretty much nothing.

Good for you... I guess?? Perhaps you should re-evaluate your spending habits... As to your point as I said in the post above Samsung has the largest mobile technology patent portfolio in the world {almost 12 times apple's in 2011} it's kind of hard to believe they got their whilst spending on nothing.

3) Why was Apple one of the the first companies to have a beautiful display. As I recall androids of that time had horrible color accuracy, etc.

Does that really matter?? I'm not disputing that the iphone was the first phone to have a "retina" display but as I linked earlier Samsung invented that tech 3 years earlier, following your earlier analogy {as quoted above} that is exactly like apple stealing Samsung's recipe and taking the credit for it.

4) How does Apple have patents for their technology other companies make? Surely Sammy and others should have them, right?

What exactly are you talking about?? Please be specific... Through as it is actually documented that apple have patented tech invented by others and gotten away with it, I will take it with a pinch of salt.

10 European judges found Apple had not invented slide-to-unlock (star patent at Samsung trial)
Let me start with a picture that is so telling. Apple is suing Samsung in California over "slide to unlock", but a little-known Swedish touchscreen phone, the Neonode N1m, already had that feature (though Apple's version undoubtedly has a more elaborate graphical representation) well before the iPhone was launched:

http://www.fosspatents.com/2014/04/10-european-judges-found-apple-had-not.html

Various companies expanded upon these inventions in the beginning of the twenty-first century. The company Fingerworks developed various multi-touch technologies between 1999 and 2005, including Touchstream keyboards and the iGesture Pad. Several studies of this technology were published in the early 2000s by Alan Hedge, professor of human factors and ergonomics at Cornell University.[17][18][19] Apple acquired Fingerworks and its multi-touch technology in 2005. Mainstream exposure to multi-touch technology occurred in 2007 when the iPhone gained popularity, with Apple stating they "invented multi touch" as part of the iPhone announcement,[20] however both the function and the term predate the announcement or patent requests, except for such area of application as capacitive mobile screens, which did not exist before Fingerworks/Apple's technology (Fingerworks filed patents in 2001-2005,[21] subsequent multi-touch refinements were patented by Apple[22]).

Microsoft's table-top touch platform, Microsoft PixelSense, which started development in 2001, interacts with both the user's touch and their electronic devices. Similarly, in 2001, Mitsubishi Electric Research Laboratories (MERL) began development of a multi-touch, multi-user system called DiamondTouch, also based on capacitance, but able to differentiate between multiple simultaneous users (or rather, the chairs in which each user is seated or the floorpad on which the user is standing); the Diamondtouch became a commercial product in 2008.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-touch

The U.S. Patent and Trademark Office's (USPTO) Central Reexamination Office (CRO) has damaged Apple, Inc.'s (AAPL) legal campaign against rival smartphone maker Samsung Electronics Comp., Ltd. (KSC:005930) with its third in a series of major patent rejections in recent months. On Wednesday, the CRO ruled [PDF] that Apple's "pinch to zoom" patent -- U.S. Patent No. 7,844,915 -- was invalid [PDF]. The patent claims the invention of a number of things multi-touch related -- including being able to distinguish between single finger scrolling gestures and a plurality of multi-finger gestures, including the aforementioned pinch to zoom. These multi-touch techniques were largely first demonstrated in the 1980s in the world of academia by groups such as Myron Krueger's team at the University of Toronto. Professor Krueger developed and published papers on virtually equivalent pinch-to-zoom multi-touch technology almost 25 years prior to Apple producing its first multi-touch device (the iPhone).

http://www.dailytech.com/Another+Ke...to+Zoom+is+Rejected+by+USPTO/article29463.htm

And just to be clear I am sure their are an equal amount if not more of these dubiously awarded patents for every other manufacturer under the sun including Samsung.

5) quick search http://m.wikihow.com/Manufacture-an-Invention. Pretty much (can't believe I have to spell it out to be honest )
A) Apple designs something ie the archecture of the A7 chip (following me?)
B) They then can make it themselves (they don't really have factories) or they can find a partner to make it for them. (Still not lost, right?)
C ) a partner could be Sammy that then makes it for apple at a cost.
Who invented it? Hard question I know. Or maybe I am half deranged
6) I believe the key difference between apples high res mobile displayed and the others was the strain on battery... Don't quote me on it, however.

 

[sracer]

Just funny to read how 4" fanboys will never buy a larger iPhone. And that's just fine by me.

Keep your 4" iPhone for a few more years and when it will no longer work you'll always have the option of gettin' one of 'em cheap Walmart 4" prepaid phone.

This way at least you won't loose your dignity by givin' in to change iLOL!

PS: I wonder how die hard Motorola Razr V3 flip phone users are doing in their fight against smartphones

Sounds like Apple will produce a 5" or larger iPhone. They might even keep the 5 around for those who want a smaller phone but keep the price where it's currently at. And then discontinue the other models.

They'll capture the market for 5" phones, and have an entry-level iPhone with a smaller screen.

Why should they cater to those who want cutting edge specs but smaller screen? They can force those people to the 5" iPhone... where else are they going to go? Android? Windows Phone?

Apple has built a fanatically loyal customer base... those customers are not going anywhere. Now they need to go after those who they are currently not market to... that's the 5"+ market.