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Unfortunately, Microsoft products are still more reliable than Apple products... Apple just looks fancy. I've had so many freezes on Macs, including other software and hardware issues. I sold all of my Apple products and went back to Dell... no freezes, no crashes. I'm a happy camper. Never going back to the reality distortion field.

BULL:confused::(;):rolleyes:

I am posting from a Win 7 Enterprise box running on an SSD based Dell E6430 which completely loses its marbles on every page load. When I compare that with my somewhat older late 2011 MBP there really is no comparison. My Mac runs like a Ferrari and this windows box runs like a rusty bicycle uphill in a snowstorm. Both the bike and the car below are from Italy. Which would you rather ride?
ferrari-458-italia-2_600x0w.jpg

stock-photo-old-rusty-bicycle-forgotten-near-the-house-in-the-italian-mountains-24685066.jpg

How long ago did you have all those freezes? As a user of both Apple and MS products for many years now, I have 99 freezes on Windows for every freeze on OSX and that includes the freezes I caused by putting a cheap SSD in my 2008 Macbook. It was so bad, the guy in the Apple store immediately bypassed my internal OS and booted my Macbook from a disk image over the network. Everything was running smoothly again. I'd just gotten so used to the freezes on Windows, it never occurred to me just how abnormal freezes are on OSX. I wiped and returned that defective SSD to the store and all was happy normal again... almost NO freezes.

No OS is perfect and it seems with every release of OSX, Apple is testing my ability to put up with stuff that no longer works as I expect it to. Mail.app is a huge pain and the Mavericks update fully decapitated mail so that I could no longer set up gmail as my aggregator and reply to messages as whatever email they were addressed to. Happily I found Airmail in the app store and while I don't particularly like paying for something that should have come with the OS, I'm able to live with mail.app by simply ignoring it. It baffled my wife so badly I had to delete it from her dock and install airmail instead. On my Mac, mail.app hasn't been banished from the dock but it's no longer running 24x7 obfusticating itself while having catfights with google about how IMAP is "supposed" to work.

Tell me please, how can I ignore all of the 15 to 180 second freezes I get in Windows 7 Enterprise where the entire Windows OS is unresponsive? This most often happens when I'm making a webex presentation in front of several dozen people in a dozen time zones on 3 continents. Anybody that says Microsoft products are more reliable than OSX, even after all the problems with mail.app, is simply operating under some sort of Redmond, Washington based reality distortion field. :p
 
Problem Solved

My problem is Solved.

I installed Outlook for Mac.

Apple don't worry about fixing mail, I have wasted enough time on that piece of C%!P. Seems I have to install Microsoft products for mail too. :mad:

Next step:

What IMAP supported email app is recommended for IOS? One that doesn't use Apples APIs.

I'm just so frustrated by the quality of code for OSX and IOS and how slow the patches are arriving.

Please Apple either fix things or allow me to easily revert back to IOS 6 and Mountain Lion.

I remember when I would recommend Apple as the Best, its a sad day.
 
I have the same problems with Mavericks mentioned here, but I have another one. My mailbox was corrupted during the Mavericks update meaning while I have the emails, many pictures were lost forever. :(

It's to sad that I have to go back to a PowerPC PowerMac G5 to get mail a year or more old. :(

All I have to say is THANK GOD I cloned Leopard multiple times before upgrading to Mavericks. Unfortunately, I have no way to get Mountain Lion back. :(
 
Funny how Apple can't seem to keep its long time core apps running properly. Makes one wonder if anyone within the giant company is paying attention ...

A manual workaround, really? Sounds like excuses.
 
I'd be curious to know if the people getting a lot beach ball activity have their energy settings set to put the hard drive to sleep when possible. That's the only real time I get any beach ball that lasts more than a tiny fraction of a second in Mavericks. It takes some hard drives a long time to spool up and Finder will sit beach-balled until it's ready. But this could happen with virtually any app that suddenly uses a hard drive that had gone to sleep.

I did notice with Mountain Lion and Mavericks (never used Lion so I can't comment there) that certain games that load as the go (e.g. Call of Duty series) will "stutter" the framerate and/or sound momentarily and it's irritating. I found that if I put the game on a flash drive (even a USB 2.0 one usually does the trick, although USB3 is better), the game then runs smooth as butter. My Mini's two hard drives are RAID0 and I get over 200MB/sec access rates so you'd think it wouldn't have any issues, but it does. Even a USB 3.0 flash drive typically only does 60-100MB/sec or so but it's obviously not absolute speed. Snow Leopard did NOT have this problem so somewhere along the way Apple screwed their hard drive drivers or something in the file system that it cannot operate smoothly while loading on the fly. I've seen no evidence over the past year that they are ever going to fix it either. I'm not even sure they're aware of it. I'll have to submit feedback or a bug report. It's easily reproduced with Call of Duty 2.

I just played Return to Castle Wolfenstein in Mavericks (works on my MBP with Nvidia, but not my Mini with Intel 4000HD) and it seemed to have the issue during cinema 3D sequences (briefings, etc.) but not during the game so it might have been something different, but it can garble speech for that moment so you can't understand it. Quite irritating. And if it does it for the frame rate, it's like you suddenly "jerk" into a few frames later. Clearly, the drives must be doing something else in the background at the same time and just that tiny interrupt causes it or it wouldn't go away with a slower Flash drive. Of course, the seek times are very fast on any solid-state device even if the read times are slow like on USB thumb drives.

It just seems like disk handling in general has really gone down hill in the past few years since Snow Leopard (there was the bug where it ignored the sleep setting and put drives to sleep that shouldn't in 10.8.4 too and going to sleep now if NFS is used from something like an XBMC box or another computer to access files instead of SMB or AFP).
 
BULL:confused::(;):rolleyes:

I am posting from a Win 7 Enterprise box running on an SSD based Dell E6430 which completely loses its marbles on every page load. When I compare that with my somewhat older late 2011 MBP there really is no comparison. My Mac runs like a Ferrari and this windows box runs like a rusty bicycle uphill in a snowstorm. Both the bike and the car below are from Italy. Which would you rather ride?
Image
Image
How long ago did you have all those freezes? As a user of both Apple and MS products for many years now, I have 99 freezes on Windows for every freeze on OSX and that includes the freezes I caused by putting a cheap SSD in my 2008 Macbook. It was so bad, the guy in the Apple store immediately bypassed my internal OS and booted my Macbook from a disk image over the network. Everything was running smoothly again. I'd just gotten so used to the freezes on Windows, it never occurred to me just how abnormal freezes are on OSX. I wiped and returned that defective SSD to the store and all was happy normal again... almost NO freezes.

No OS is perfect and it seems with every release of OSX, Apple is testing my ability to put up with stuff that no longer works as I expect it to. Mail.app is a huge pain and the Mavericks update fully decapitated mail so that I could no longer set up gmail as my aggregator and reply to messages as whatever email they were addressed to. Happily I found Airmail in the app store and while I don't particularly like paying for something that should have come with the OS, I'm able to live with mail.app by simply ignoring it. It baffled my wife so badly I had to delete it from her dock and install airmail instead. On my Mac, mail.app hasn't been banished from the dock but it's no longer running 24x7 obfusticating itself while having catfights with google about how IMAP is "supposed" to work.

Tell me please, how can I ignore all of the 15 to 180 second freezes I get in Windows 7 Enterprise where the entire Windows OS is unresponsive? This most often happens when I'm making a webex presentation in front of several dozen people in a dozen time zones on 3 continents. Anybody that says Microsoft products are more reliable than OSX, even after all the problems with mail.app, is simply operating under some sort of Redmond, Washington based reality distortion field. :p
Since you are using Win 7 Enterprise it is likely that you have your corporate IT version of OS/environment on it. Those often come with a heavy dose of security and who knows what. More likely than not this is what causes "freezes". I actually doubt that those are real freezes - probably slowness? Do you have MCafee? Regular Win 7 installs do not have any issues like that. And of course, Macs are not used in enterprise environments so you can't really compare the two in this case.
 
Best fix of all....

I finally found the best fix of all. I decided to finally ditch Mail.app and switch to Postbox. While it took a bit of setup and tweaking, I couldn't be happier. It's like I'm back to the feeling I had in the earlier days of Mail.app... I'm enjoying e-mail again!

My big question is how Apple could have messed it up so badly from the great product it once was. :(
 
I wish this story had come out a couple weeks ago

Like, -before- I undertook the effort of tidying and organizing almost 5 years of mail at work. I use Mail.app and my work mail is hosted in Google Apps. LOTS of fairly recent mail vanished into a black hole along the way.
 
I think this is a simpler fix. I have had a few employees run into this issue.

In Mail.app in 10.9, Apple implemented a new option under Mail Preferences/General/Check for new messages. There is an "Automatically" option which, I believe, doesn't work right.

Simply switch that to "Every minute" and (at least in my experience) the problem is solved.
This doesn't work in my case. Even when I try fetching my mail manually, it still does not go through.
 
When I first upgraded to Mavericks my GMail account had nearly all messages listed as unread and nothing much would fix it. I ended up using a trick from some obscure site I found on Google which had me delete some indexes located in a hidden folder. (wish I kept the link). Since then that mail has had no issues, now my iPhone... I could scream
 
Mac Mail Running slow

This really sucks. I was using Outlook for the longest time in Windows then switched to Mac and got Office with it. Things were working fine until my Outlook began to crash. Several Apple Genius Tech suggested I use Mail which was so much better. It worked great for about a year, and then came Maverick and now the darn thing is slower than a Windows ME back in 1999. What is so hard to get one of the most used things in any system??? --->>> eMails.
 
I've been trialing Postbox, but it has some weird bugs, like accounts being assigned folders from other accounts when you restart.
 
Shortcut to Force Downloading

My workaround is a bit quicker than totally restarting Mail... Of course, I only have this problem with my Google Apps mail (gmail) all of my other other email accounts are woking fine.

Shortcut to force incoming mail download:

Go to the Inbox and Right Click on the affected account
Select Get Account Info
This will force all mail to you r inbox
Close Info window...
 
This really sucks. I was using Outlook for the longest time in Windows then switched to Mac and got Office with it. Things were working fine until my Outlook began to crash. Several Apple Genius Tech suggested I use Mail which was so much better. It worked great for about a year, and then came Maverick and now the darn thing is slower than a Windows ME back in 1999. What is so hard to get one of the most used things in any system??? --->>> eMails.

Try Thunderbird. I've never seen it not work on any OS.
 
Unfortunately, Microsoft products are still more reliable than Apple products... Apple just looks fancy. I've had so many freezes on Macs, including other software and hardware issues. I sold all of my Apple products and went back to Dell... no freezes, no crashes. I'm a happy camper. Never going back to the reality distortion field.

If you read my other posts on this thread, I have been critiquing Apple for its QA process. They never should have let Mavericks out the door with all these huge usability issues.

That said, there is a "third way" that doesn't involve leaving Apple. I personally have 2 monitors sitting on my desk. One is hooked up to a custom built PC running Windows. The other is hooked up to a Mac Mini. I use Synergy to share a keyboard and mouse between the two. I have optical audio from the Mac running into the PC soundcard. So basically I have a giant super computer that allows me to use Windows and OS X like it is one giant, beautiful OS. It is the best of all worlds.

But serious annoyances in Windows 8 (I should have stuck with 7, I hate this push towards the cloud) and OS X Mavericks make the setup finicky at times.

Still, both OSes have their own problems. I'm just disappointed that Apple has been so slow to fix their very serious problems with Mavericks.
 
The funny thing is they always tout Mail has the killer app as if it were going to change the way people do email. It's email for pete sake.

Apple has been turning into a piss-poor company when it comes to software as of late

1) Mail.app fiasco
2) stripping iWork of its once useful features only to add them back later
3) stripping of "pro" apps
4) iTunes Match still doesn't work properly (and what's with the 1 Apple ID per computer policy? You mean I can't use iTunes Match for 90 days if my wife creates her own account on the iMac with her own completely different Apple ID or else I run the risk of not being able to use iTunes Match for 90 days because there can only 1 Apple ID associated with a device? The iMac is not the iPhone or iPad Apple!)

The more Apple tries to keep us in their ecosystem, the more I start looking at other options.
 
I've been having these issues and I'm not even running Mavericks on my iMac (running Lion).

It's not a problem with running Maverick's, I have snow leopard, after doing some extensive research on why I can't set up a Gmail on mac computers, it was simply I had to disable step 2 verification, and soon after I set up a Gmail account on both my macs.And it worked,well the next day ,I can get my mail to go on line,hours and nada........I gave up...This is the what we get after buy en expensive macbook pro,or so for featuresnot to work or apps to fail....I knew I should of bought another PC..apple suck I could proudly say that and I would say it to there face not that it would matter for them long ad the money smells food to them.
 
It's time to get rid of my macbook pro, I tried to reason it it,and too many flaws,mail went to ****,can't fix it..among many others things....I should of bought another PC. And that's what I'll do..trade it or sell it
 
It's time to get rid of my macbook pro, I tried to reason it it,and too many flaws,mail went to ****,can't fix it..among many others things....I should of bought another PC. And that's what I'll do..trade it or sell it

I'm sorry, but I'm having a hard time taking this post seriously. You're going to sell your entire computer because of Apple's stupid mail program? For god's sake, just download Mozilla Thunderbird. It has worked perfectly for me since 2007 and on every single upgrade.

I tried to use Apple Mail with Mountain Lion and all seemed well until I moved to Mavericks and then it wouldn't check my mail regularly and when you told it to "Get mail" it wouldn't. You had to quit and restart to make it get mail. Apple released I don't know how many supposed "bug fixes" for that crappy thing and it never seemed to work quite right and soon as a new OS version came out, they'd stop updates for the old OS to try and force you to upgrade your entire OS just for a mail program! It actually seems OK here so far in El Capitan (tried it just to see), but I still user Thunderbird. It's just plain more reliable and I don't see anything so great about Apple Mail even when it is working to make me want to use it, to be honest.
 
It's not a problem with running Maverick's, I have snow leopard, after doing some extensive research on why I can't set up a Gmail on mac computers, it was simply I had to disable step 2 verification, and soon after I set up a Gmail account on both my macs.And it worked,well the next day ,I can get my mail to go on line,hours and nada........I gave up...This is the what we get after buy en expensive macbook pro,or so for featuresnot to work or apps to fail....I knew I should of bought another PC..apple suck I could proudly say that and I would say it to there face not that it would matter for them long ad the money smells food to them.


First of all, you woke up a thread from 2014 which perhaps isn't so bad because you're still running... Snow Leopard? Anyway, I gave up on mail.app many months (years?) ago. I ran airmail for a while then gave up on that. I now do email in my browser (Chrome). I suggest you go to Apple's feedback page. I have reason to believe it's not connected to a toilet or shredder like feedback intended for Google or Microsoft, if you can even figure out how to leave feedback for those companies.


It's time to get rid of my macbook pro, I tried to reason it it,and too many flaws,mail went to ****,can't fix it..among many others things....I should of bought another PC. And that's what I'll do..trade it or sell it

I grow VERY tired of problems with my iThings and Apple gear in general. But it would take a LOT of crap for me to go back to the minefield that is all things Windows.

First I'll mention the Apple things I'm not thrilled about:

1) VERY difficult to upgrade rMBP, VERY difficult to upgrade 5K iMac. These two things mean I must pay the "Apple tax" for RAM and SSD. Well I suppose I could get the minimum SSD, just enough for the OS and put all my stuff on a USB3, Firewire, or Thunderbolt external drive. But then if I want to grab my rMBP and go work on something, chances are my stuff isn't with me.

2) Then there's the lack of cellular radio in Apple computers. If you're gonna limit me to iPad-like storage then at least give me a cellular radio so I can get to iCloud, Dropbox, Google Drive or another cloud of my choice.

3) Dumbing down of OSX apps. This applies mostly to mail.app but I also completely gave up on all things airport when airport utility became so doggone useless Apple actually supported keeping an older version installed in parallel. Utter nonsense.

4) No save as. Who came up with this nonsense? Duplicate, then save? Then by default it wants to save to iCloud instead of the folder where I opened the original file. I thought only Windows was designed for this level of click-harvesting.

Now I'll mention just a few of the things that keep me using Apple products:

1) Stellar customer support. Try to get somebody from Microsoft or Google on the phone. Really. Try it. Good Luck!!

2) Outstanding build quality. Granted Lenovo makes some sweet ultrabooks and Microsoft's surface 4 is a serious contender, Apple has been making great products with excellent build quality for much longer and keeping a consistently high standard. There have been a few speed bumps along the way but overall I'm satisfied with my Apple gear.

3) Well thought out software, (mostly). This is a double edged sword. Just as I get annoyed with the dumbing down of apps above, more often than not Apple picks the most logical stuff to hide or leave out altogether making their products more like "data toasters" than computers that require my undivided attention to make complex decisions the OS should have already handled for me like printing landscape oriented pages on landscape oriented paper (duh).

Have you taken a look at the control panel in Windows lately? It took until windows TEN for Microsoft to finally get rid of the last few dialogs that have been around since Windows 3.1. That's the equivalent of Apple still using dialogs that not only pre-date OSX but go all the way back to System 7 (1992!). Apple went through 2 revolutions: From Mac OS to OSX (2001) and from PPC architecture to Intel architecture (2005) and then OSX became LESS bloated (starting with Snow Leopard) while all things Windows stagnated and became more bloated than ever though admittedly more stable. Just for reference, my Win 7 Enterprise laptop at work requires a press-and-hold-power-reset twice or more a WEEK. This is largely due to crippleware installed by our IT department but it is still not a good reflection on Windows.

4) The app store. With only one exception, the malware that infected WeChat and other apps built in China using a bootleg version of Xcode, the app store has been a safe, rock-solid place to get apps. No wading through web sites for apps that might or might not work as advertised and more problematically might bring along a little something extra I do NOT need. Gatekeeper is also a blessing so you can adjust your security settings to allow apps from elsewhere but still require apps that are signed by known developers.

5) Industrial design. iPhone, iPad, iMac, Mac mini, and all flavors of Macbooks benefit from world-class industrial design. They are attractive to look at. No stoopid optical drives to pop out unexpectedly, no lousy trackpads that are more dust collectors than practical ways to move the pointer. The one exception is the base Macbook which requires an unsightly dongle to do more than one thing at a time through it's SINGLE USB port. I guess it's elegant if whatever you're doing fits inside the paltry storage that comes with it and you're in range of good wifi for everything else, but Apple really should have put one or two more ports on the thing.

6) Resale. I bought an HP laptop for my daughter in high school. It ware required for freshmen and it cost $2400. It was an HP "Elite"book. It was more of a "Junk"book. Around the same time I bought an iPad 1. Two years later, the school switched to iPad. They offered to buy back the laptops... for $52. Meanwhile at the time my lowly iPad 1 was still worth $350. This is generally the case across all of Apple's product line. Try to sell a used Galaxy S4 or a Lenovo or Dell. Look at those ads alongside an iPhone 5S or a Macbook Air of the same vintage. Look at the purchase to resale ratio. No comparison. This is not only because of Apple's reputation but also because Apple products (mostly) don't suck.

I can identify with every user on here who is fed up with the steady dumbing down of apps and features being drained away from Apple apps but I'm not nearly ready to walk back to (what I consider to be) the pile of stinking dung that is everything Windows.
 
I'm sorry, but I'm having a hard time taking this post seriously. You're going to sell your entire computer because of Apple's stupid mail program? For god's sake, just download Mozilla Thunderbird. It has worked perfectly for me since 2007 and on every single upgrade.

I tried to use Apple Mail with Mountain Lion and all seemed well until I moved to Mavericks and then it wouldn't check my mail regularly and when you told it to "Get mail" it wouldn't. You had to quit and restart to make it get mail. Apple released I don't know how many supposed "bug fixes" for that crappy thing and it never seemed to work quite right and soon as a new OS version came out, they'd stop updates for the old OS to try and force you to upgrade your entire OS just for a mail program! It actually seems OK here so far in El Capitan (tried it just to see), but I still user Thunderbird. It's just plain more reliable and I don't see anything so great about Apple Mail even when it is working to make me want to use it, to be honest.


I'm just upset,for the fact that one pays all this money,for supposedly the top of the line computers, and you expect to get what you pay for.......and somethnic don't work right. But yeah I'll take your advice and just download a mailing program,to my liking.Don't get me wrong I like apple devices but they took a turn in ways where many people are displeased. I read a post it said"if it works ,don't fix it=like that saying goes"Don't rock that boat just relax and let it flow"but yeah I'll have to settle for a mail program, just got easily frustrated. :mad:....I'm keeping my:apple:
 
I'm just upset,for the fact that one pays all this money,for supposedly the top of the line computers, and you expect to get what you pay for.......and somethnic don't work right. But yeah I'll take your advice and just download a mailing program,to my liking.Don't get me wrong I like apple devices but they took a turn in ways where many people are displeased. I read a post it said"if it works ,don't fix it=like that saying goes"Don't rock that boat just relax and let it flow"but yeah I'll have to settle for a mail program, just got easily frustrated. :mad:....I'm keeping my:apple:
I'm sorry, but I'm having a hard time taking this post seriously. You're going to sell your entire computer because of Apple's stupid mail program? For god's sake, just download Mozilla Thunderbird. It has worked perfectly for me since 2007 and on every single upgrade.

I tried to use Apple Mail with Mountain Lion and all seemed well until I moved to Mavericks and then it wouldn't check my mail regularly and when you told it to "Get mail" it wouldn't. You had to quit and restart to make it get mail. Apple released I don't know how many supposed "bug fixes" for that crappy thing and it never seemed to work quite right and soon as a new OS version came out, they'd stop updates for the old OS to try and force you to upgrade your entire OS just for a mail program! It actually seems OK here so far in El Capitan (tried it just to see), but I still user Thunderbird. It's just plain more reliable and I don't see anything so great about Apple Mail even when it is working to make me want to use it, to be honest.

I'm glad to hear you wouldn't bail over a thing like a lame bundled app. I had forgotten about Thunderbird when I did my earlier post. It is seldom (if ever) updated but still works better than Apple mail.app (which isn't a very high bar these days). The advantage with Thunderbird is it caches mail locally while my web based gmail approach leaves all my email at the mercy of google's server. I had a recent scare where all my spreadsheets (google sheets) were missing and marked deleted for 3+ hours a few weeks ago so I know I cannot rely on anybody's cloud to keep the only copy of my stuff despite the fact I can access it from multiple locations and platforms, I must back it up from time to time.
 
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