Apple Acknowledges Mac Mini Update?

[hiimamac]

The confusion is really minimal, maybe you just are capable of comprehending something as simple as model numbers.

The line-up doesn't work. I'm a 20+ year Mac user and I am now for the first time considering going with a hackintosh and efi-x because Apple simply doesn't offer what I need. I don't want to spend nearly $3,000 on a Mac Pro, I don't want to buy an iMac because I do not need a built-in screen, and the Mac mini is incredibly underpowered for what I need. How does this desktop line-up just work?

I think the modern Apple user is so more advanced than the FAN BOY.

Fan boys have no idea about FSB and show up to the genius bar when the computer runs slow, needs more ram, or a HD swap.

As the switchers grow, and that they are, they will demand superior tools and we can only hope that JOBS steps down. He isn't the face of Apple, Ives is, Ive's is the main man, he is the designer that brings us the products we love.

Just wish the marketing department had some NADS and told Jobs how it was and gave the people what they want.

 

[dwl017]

I think the modern Apple user is so more advanced than the FAN BOY.

Fan boys have no idea about FSB and show up to the genius bar when the computer runs slow, needs more ram, or a HD swap.

As the switchers grow, and that they are, they will demand superior tools and we can only hope that JOBS steps down. He isn't the face of Apple, Ives is, Ive's is the main man, he is the designer that brings us the products we love.

Just wish the marketing department had some NADS and told Jobs how it was and gave the people what they want.

Jobs is done! at this point he is blocking progress, its time to usher in the new face of Apple and let the tradition continue. I have spent a ton of my hard earned money with Apple over the years but at this point I am done until the current line up changes. Will I be back? yes I will but in the mean time I am just tickled to death with my top of the line Studio Hybird Dell, what a sweet little box set up with my Dell 24" UltraSharp display. On a side note I also love the new Picasa 3 with excellent Raw capability.

 

[midwich]

Jobs is done! at this point he is blocking progress, its time to usher in the new face of Apple and let the tradition continue. I have spent a ton of my hard earned money with Apple over the years but at this point I am done until the current line up changes. Will I be back? yes I will but in the mean time I am just tickled to death with my top of the line Studio Hybird Dell, what a sweet little box set up with my Dell 24" UltraSharp display. On a side note I also love the new Picasa 3 with excellent Raw capability.

I've been using Macs since the 1980's, and never thought I'd ever agree with a post like that - but I too have been thinking that for some reason Jobs' negative attributes have been coming to the fore increasingly in recent years and the current computer lineup is the result.

For me the MacWorld Keynote on Jan 6th is a last chance saloon: even if a Mini or equivalent is announced, if things pan out as they have been recently (overpriced, lowspec, lacking necessary features etc) then I'm afraid it's a Psystar for me as soon as possible Fingers crossed we'll all be pleasantly surprised I guess, though I'm not too hopeful.

 

[curmi]

I've been using Macs since the 1980's, and never thought I'd ever agree with a post like that - but I too have been thinking that for some reason Jobs' negative attributes have been coming to the fore increasingly in recent years and the current computer lineup is the result.

The problem I think is that Jobs may have difficulty concentrating on more than one business. When he concentrates on one business, he really makes that one business shine. But try and do a few businesses at once, and it doesn't work.

Jobs decided to concentrate on the iPhone, and it shines. But in doing that he neglected the Macs (and Leopard for some time, which is why it was so late, and so buggy. And most of you have never seen the mess of Leopard Server). The iPhone is now his pride and joy, so everything else is second place. And this is why we will now start seeing, as someone described here, recently "last year's technology in a pretty box". Ives is still there making the boxes pretty, but Jobs isn't there ensuring the machines are close to cutting edge, and keeping up with latest technologies and trends.

As I've said before, if you want to be the sole supplier of the hardware and the software, you need to make sure the hardware and the software are better than anything out there. Once either (or both) start to slip, that business is going to start to slip. That hasn't happened...yet. But just reading the forums you can see that there are many long time users annoyed more than usual by the old tech in things like the minis, the lack of options like blu-ray, removal of useful technology before its time like firewire, and the lack of new machines like netbooks. That should be ringing alarm bells all over Apple.

It could well be that Jobs has pushed responsibility of the Mac division on to someone else, and that other person doesn't have the attention to detail, and his/her finger on the pulse of what people are starting to demand. If that is the case, Jobs needs to find someone else to fill that role quickly and replace the current person. But he might not see it because he is too involved with the iPhone.

Not saying at all that it is an easy job that Jobs has. I couldn't even begin to do it. The thing is though, I know my limitations.

 

[midwich]

The problem I think is that Jobs may have difficulty concentrating on more than one business. When he concentrates on one business, he really makes that one business shine. But try and do a few businesses at once, and it doesn't work.

Jobs decided to concentrate on the iPhone, and it shines. But in doing that he neglected the Macs (and Leopard for some time, which is why it was so late, and so buggy. And most of you have never seen the mess of Leopard Server). The iPhone is now his pride and joy, so everything else is second place. And this is why we will now start seeing, as someone described here, recently "last year's technology in a pretty box". Ives is still there making the boxes pretty, but Jobs isn't there ensuring the machines are close to cutting edge, and keeping up with latest technologies and trends.

As I've said before, if you want to be the sole supplier of the hardware and the software, you need to make sure the hardware and the software are better than anything out there. Once either (or both) start to slip, that business is going to start to slip. That hasn't happened...yet. But just reading the forums you can see that there are many long time users annoyed more than usual by the old tech in things like the minis, the lack of options like blu-ray, removal of useful technology before its time like firewire, and the lack of new machines like netbooks. That should be ringing alarm bells all over Apple.

It could well be that Jobs has pushed responsibility of the Mac division on to someone else, and that other person doesn't have the attention to detail, and his/her finger on the pulse of what people are starting to demand. If that is the case, Jobs needs to find someone else to fill that role quickly and replace the current person. But he might not see it because he is too involved with the iPhone.

Not saying at all that it is an easy job that Jobs has. I couldn't even begin to do it. The thing is though, I know my limitations.

Couldn't agree more with every line, imo your analysis is spot-on in all respects and deserves quoting in full.

I guess we'll know for sure on Jan 6th: could be a watershed Keynote I suspect.

 

[dwl017]

The problem I think is that Jobs may have difficulty concentrating on more than one business. When he concentrates on one business, he really makes that one business shine. But try and do a few businesses at once, and it doesn't work.

Jobs decided to concentrate on the iPhone, and it shines. But in doing that he neglected the Macs (and Leopard for some time, which is why it was so late, and so buggy. And most of you have never seen the mess of Leopard Server). The iPhone is now his pride and joy, so everything else is second place. And this is why we will now start seeing, as someone described here, recently "last year's technology in a pretty box". Ives is still there making the boxes pretty, but Jobs isn't there ensuring the machines are close to cutting edge, and keeping up with latest technologies and trends.

As I've said before, if you want to be the sole supplier of the hardware and the software, you need to make sure the hardware and the software are better than anything out there. Once either (or both) start to slip, that business is going to start to slip. That hasn't happened...yet. But just reading the forums you can see that there are many long time users annoyed more than usual by the old tech in things like the minis, the lack of options like blu-ray, removal of useful technology before its time like firewire, and the lack of new machines like netbooks. That should be ringing alarm bells all over Apple.

It could well be that Jobs has pushed responsibility of the Mac division on to someone else, and that other person doesn't have the attention to detail, and his/her finger on the pulse of what people are starting to demand. If that is the case, Jobs needs to find someone else to fill that role quickly and replace the current person. But he might not see it because he is too involved with the iPhone.

Not saying at all that it is an easy job that Jobs has. I couldn't even begin to do it. The thing is though, I know my limitations.

Bravo! great post.

 

[hiimamac]

Jobs is done! at this point he is blocking progress, its time to usher in the new face of Apple and let the tradition continue. I have spent a ton of my hard earned money with Apple over the years but at this point I am done until the current line up changes. Will I be back? yes I will but in the mean time I am just tickled to death with my top of the line Studio Hybird Dell, what a sweet little box set up with my Dell 24" UltraSharp display. On a side note I also love the new Picasa 3 with excellent Raw capability.

Amen bro, Amen.

I started with a hack and then bought a Macbook Pro - the funny thing is, many windows users are WOWED becuase of the templates and programs that are available for the MAC but little do they know, be it iWork brouchure or a MOTION effect, that all mac users (for the most part), will know what it is.

What IS happening though is that the typical MAC user is a switcher and they know what a FSB is, how to overclock a GPU for better frame rates (sure it might make the computer last only 3 years, but who cares), they can swap out RAM, HD, keyboard on a laptop and save hundereds of dollars.

That said, I think we will see a demand for higher products at a lower price point but I don't think it will happen THIS mac world. It will happen when WINDOWS 7 starts to come out (fast boot up times) and tight intergration of software.

For now, expect the MINI to be just like the MACBOOK. No FIREWIRE, better graphics, and Steve has really killed the bedroom musician. The Macbook (1st-3rd GEN), didn't need graphics and now, you cannot use a FIREWIRE interface, which is so much better than USB as USB requires CPU overhead whereas 1394 does not.

Steve needs to, IMHO, to release a MINI with firewire, express slot, and then release the new macbook with an update with FIREWIRE and stop WORRYING about the PRO (LESS THAN 1%) using the cheap solution! HELLO!!! The PRO will buy the cheap as a backup and therefore would sell more machines.


Steve needs to step down.

 

[50548]

The confusion is really minimal, maybe you just are capable of comprehending something as simple as model numbers.

The line-up doesn't work. I'm a 20+ year Mac user and I am now for the first time considering going with a hackintosh and efi-x because Apple simply doesn't offer what I need. I don't want to spend nearly $3,000 on a Mac Pro, I don't want to buy an iMac because I do not need a built-in screen, and the Mac mini is incredibly underpowered for what I need. How does this desktop line-up just work?

Apple's growth rate says it all, so I don't need to expand on my previous considerations.

Another point that has to be repeated again and again: 99% of people DON'T NEED and/or DON'T CARE about upgradability of their computers. The market simply confirms it when millions of people buy Apple; it's not just my opinion as a faithful Mac fan.

And I already said that a new Cube is coming...it's gonna replace the Mini and hopefully quell the concerns of all whiners looking for the fabled xMac. Apple is not stupid, and it won't let the Mini disappear without launching another cheaper model for wannabe switchers and people with their own displays.

 

[Gadzooks]

It's a bit of a catch-22 when it comes to Jobs - he's the one who brought the company back from the brink, and gave us all of these great machines, but if you get rid of him, who's to say it won't be another Schiller who tanks the company?

What makes Jobs annoying is what built Apple and the Mac, and the iPod, and the iPhone - his focus, his willingness to take a chance, and ignoring the fad and creating his *own* fads. He's also brought new products to the market that make it possible for Apple to survive without having to only rely on computers. He brought iTunes to the top, when it was laughed at when it debuted. He made the iPod a cultural icon. He re-invented the cell phone. He set the bar for laptops, and pro desktop solutions, and made tough choices, like switching to Intel, when everyone told him he was stupid to even think about it.

I think he's got a pretty good track record, and I'm willing to wait and see what he has up his sleeve. He's disinterested in netbooks, who's to say he doesnt have something *better*?

He also considers the AppleTV a hobby, which means they're not ready to jump in with both feet and swim in that market. With the standards wars and DRM wars, that's smart, even tho it means we're frustrated in our purchasing options.

I dunno. Agree or disagree, but I don't think it's entirely Jobs who's holding back the products, as much as it's the market. They need to sell a LOT of anything they make, and I think that more people are interested in MacBooks than they are minis, to be honest - laptops are the lifestyle now, not desktops.

I'd love to be proven wrong, but that's my 2 cents.

 

[econoline06]

Definatley still a strong market for the mini! Great little machine, just needs a specs boost and it'll be a strong seller again.

The average user doesn't know much about the specs honestly, nor do they really care. You get some college student or granny into the Apple store and all they care about is price and if it'll "run my stuff". Honestly it is only the geekier types (like us) that really understand the specs and are clamoring for updates.

 

[econoline06]

Apple's growth rate says it all, so I don't need to expand on my previous considerations.

Another point that has to be repeated again and again: 99% of people DON'T NEED and/or DON'T CARE about upgradability of their computers. The market simply confirms it when millions of people buy Apple; it's not just my opinion as a faithful Mac fan.

And I already said that a new Cube is coming...it's gonna replace the Mini and hopefully quell the concerns of all whiners looking for the fabled xMac. Apple is not stupid, and it won't let the Mini disappear without launching another cheaper model for wannabe switchers and people with their own displays.

My thoughts exactly! Most people don't care at ALL if they can upgrade their computers, or even what the "specs" are as long as it runs their stuff.

 

[econoline06]

Keep dreaming. Never going to happen. They would sell 9400m + 9600 for 1200+. I was starting to warm up to this company but I think they will never release a reasonable headless mac with decent graphics. I don't want a computer attached to a monitor and the mini hasn't been updated in a long time. That's like going to buy a new car and they tell you they didn't build a new one this year but you can buy last years model at the same price. No other company gets away with this but some how Apple can.

I was hoping that they could produce something that would make me switch but I'll probably just build a computer instead. Maybe a Macbook later on down the road.

I do agree that Apple has gaps in their lineups. The last time they really offered what I would consider a "pro-sumer" tower was the lowest end G5 at 1.6GHz. It was $1,799 at its lowest price and you could easily upgrade the HDD's and video card. Even that was a bit pricey though....it would have been great if it was $1400 ish

 

[Sehnsucht]

And I already said that a new Cube is coming...it's gonna replace the Mini and hopefully quell the concerns of all whiners looking for the fabled xMac.

I already want one...even though they're just a rumor at this point.

 

[jodelli]

Once again, and despite the fact that this thread isn't about MacBooks, the MacBook isn't aimed at "pros". It's aimed at internet users, text editing, spreadsheets, families - in other words, the consumer.

Just keep repeating the 'party' line like a good little soldier. A $1299 notebook is not a consumer level product.

Apple could add firewire, as well as release a mini that ROCKED, but they won't - they are too greedy and feel that you must buy the PRO if you want to do anything serious in audio, video

This is like Intel in the Pentium days. They took cpus that cost the same to make and artificially crippled them. Some Celerons were just Pentiums with features disabled. They sold cheaper but weren't manufactured more cheaply.

 

[Joe The Dragon]

Just keep repeating the 'party' line like a good little soldier. A $1299 notebook is not a consumer level product.



This is like Intel in the Pentium days. They took cpus that cost the same to make and artificially crippled them. Some Celerons were just Pentiums with features disabled. They sold cheaper but weren't manufactured more cheaply.

no what happened is they took the full chips that part failed turned off the failed parts and sold them as Celerons.

 

[jodelli]

no what happened is they took the full chips that part failed turned off the failed parts and sold them as Celerons.

What do you mean, 'no'? That is basically what I was getting at. And I don't have enough hairs left to split.
Unless you have a PHd in English I don't want to hear about it.

 

[ra noodle]

I bought one of the first mini's and still have it altho now my MBP15 single not duo or whatever it is, that is my main work station thing, and the mini is put away actually in half a cheerios box cut down to fold inward to store it and it has Panther on it and dialup. It still works, but I had hoped that Apple could have haved the height of that mini's size and then put in a large battery that clicked into place underneath the mini--sorta like a Lego thing type....and kept it at a reasonable price with some USB 2's and eithernut--i mean ethernet connection and/or the wireless stuff. Again all at the same reasonable price the mini originally sold at....and/or maybe stuff and things for TV also--now all that could be made into a like a mini iPod thing.....and I bet Steveo would sell a s%$# load of them things.....and/or create the iphone effect into/onto the mac mini "block" where if you put it on its side a 6 by 6 inch square screen would appear that you could preview stuff and or watch it and it you put it flat then the screen would revert to the cream white like Apple logo

 

[hiimamac]

Jobs is done! .

I agree 100%.

Did you watch the keynote when he was passing around the unibody? He watched every single person, LIGHTS UP and ALL, acting like someone was going to steal one. Man, that dude has no trust at all and is super paranoid.

With that said, if you think about it, the MB and MBP now share the same body to some extent so the manufacturing process is now cheaper so building a MB vs a MBP takes very little, but do we see that in various price points? Of course not.

Steve wants to get every dollar he can - I mean the store itself is ALL RETAIL, every item in there is FULL SUGGESTED RETAIL price and that's not even mentioning the over priced RAM, HD's, graphic cards.

They could have put in the FIREWIRE but did not, it's simple people. Jobs knows that you could run MOTION and all PRO apps on the MB so he kills it so the PRO again, less than 1%, can't use it while stifiling the other mom and pop user that he got to switch with iLife and now are stuck with cameras that won't work.

So, the only choice is a MBP.

 

[hiimamac]

no what happened is they took the full chips that part failed turned off the failed parts and sold them as Celerons.

Actually you're both wrong. LOL.

The way it works is this. If a clock remains stable at a certain frequency, it is marked accordingly, if it fails, it is underclocked until stable then marked at a certain speed.

This is why over clockers have a field day with a certain batch of chips as they are known for their batch numbers and whether or not a certain "die" can ramp up to a higher clock and FSB (with memory) and while many MAC users will say, "ewwww, what's the point of that, ewww", the pro users sometimes can get more REVERB, more plug-ins, more tracks, faster rendering time, and so on, for a fraction of the cost, then when the chip burns out (at least 3 years), they replace it with another.

A 2.5 MBP is just a 2.4 chip that has a higher FSB and voltage applied to it.

No magic, all the same wafer.

 

[mrglsmrc]

memory for minis

i dont see why you need to buy memory from apple and complain about their prices. many suppliers exist for that stuff.
as far as jobs goes apple is on the hunt for new talent as this recent court fight with ibm over a insider exec. shows.
the attractiveness of the mini comes from its form factor. the mini is not a machine for overclockers or rad gamers so i don't understand the direction this discussion is taking about pentiums and front side bus etc.
you need a big box with a mainboard that uses zif sockets for the cpu to do the stuff you want to do there.
apple gives you a lot for the money of the operating system compared to MS and then makes it up in hardware costs and forcing high quality user interface standards on developers. i can't say there are many high quality operating systems like leopard that come with an IDE for the low price we paid--about 11% of the cost of the mini.
i remember building my own pc boxes that would get unstable and crash quite regularly because of the os and after the third or fourth crash of the year you had to phone microsoft to get validation codes to activate the os. what a pain in the butt that was.
admittedly there is a smaller selection of hardware for the mac but that's why everything works well. i'd rather have a mac mini than one of those shuttle mini pc.s any day. just the cost of the oem os is a turn-off.
if apple really wanted to help pc users switch then apple should offer oem pricing for windows with parallel when you buy a mac.
i assume apple doesn't do this because apple doesn't want to waste customer service dollars supporting microsoft products.
i am sure they'll be a newer mini when the next intel cpu chipset becomes affordable. in the current world economy that might take longer than you want because the scale of production will be smaller.
yeah apple could do it now but their mark-up would be too small.
alot of companies are screwing around this way. try to get a dvr from your cable company and odds are that in contains a third world el cheapo hard drive. this is the kind of reticence that apple should be exploiting with hip tv systems instead of joining in on theiving against their customer base.

 

[DirtyHarry]

Waiting for the new mini until january, no longer. If it keeps firewire, I'll buy it; if it doesn´t, I'll go for the white macbook (hoping it's still there).
Right now, I am still using an iBook 1.2 Mhz with AvidXPress DV for video editing. Believe it or not, this almost 5 year old machine still works fine for my video needs, and that's only because of firewire (it's painfully slow for DVD encoding, but for basic editing it's enough). So, more than anything else, the best improvement the next mini could have is to keep its FIREWIRE please!!!

 

[dubhe]

Waiting for the new mini until january, no longer. If it keeps firewire, I'll buy it; if it doesn´t, I'll go for the white macbook (hoping it's still there).
Right now, I am still using an iBook 1.2 Mhz with AvidXPress DV for video editing. Believe it or not, this almost 5 year old machine still works fine for my video needs, and that's only because of firewire (it's painfully slow for DVD encoding, but for basic editing it's enough). So, more than anything else, the best improvement the next mini could have is to keep its FIREWIRE please!!!

I can't see why they wouldn't, there's plenty of room inside the Mac mini box, I think it was left out of the new MB to save space right?

 

[204467]

I can't see why they wouldn't, there's plenty of room inside the Mac mini box, I think it was left out of the new MB to save space right?

No, it was left out because Jobs thought that the consumer did not need it and he wanted those who used Firewire to buy the Pro machines. It's stupid.

 

[jodelli]

Actually you're both wrong. LOL.

The way it works is this. If a clock remains stable at a certain frequency, it is marked accordingly, if it fails, it is underclocked until stable then marked at a certain speed.

This is why over clockers have a field day with a certain batch of chips as they are known for their batch numbers and whether or not a certain "die" can ramp up to a higher clock and FSB (with memory) and while many MAC users will say, "ewwww, what's the point of that, ewww", the pro users sometimes can get more REVERB, more plug-ins, more tracks, faster rendering time, and so on, for a fraction of the cost, then when the chip burns out (at least 3 years), they replace it with another.

A 2.5 MBP is just a 2.4 chip that has a higher FSB and voltage applied to it.

No magic, all the same wafer.

Actually the big difference between Celerons and Pentiums was reduced or non existent on board cache.

The reduced power rating did occur between different Pentium chips. Apple did that with some of the early G4s, dropped some of the new 500 and 450 mhz 7400 chips to 450 and 400 mhz respectively.

 

[204467]

Actually the big difference between Celerons and Pentiums was reduced or non existent on board cache.

The reduced power rating did occur between different Pentium chips. Apple did that with some of the early G4s, dropped some of the new 500 and 450 mhz 7400 chips to 450 and 400 mhz respectively.

Okay, I think we can all agree that this thread has gone distinctly off topic. Perhaps we can bring it back to the Mini?

Oh, who am I kidding. An on topic thread? Yeah, that will happen.