Apple Addresses CSAM Detection Concerns, Will Consider Expanding System on Per-Country Basis

[giggles]

CSSM? Must we have an acronym for everything? Enough. If Apple wants to spy on my photos I’m out. The last thing innocent iPhone users need is to run into an inevitable bug that has the cops knocking on their door like they are a low life with a warrant to search everything they own. iCloud Photos is now shut off. Try something like this again and hello Android. Sorry but bugs are inevitable and all it takes is one to do serious damage. I appreciate the intent but this is way too much Big Brother for me. I don’t need Uncle Apple going through my photos. I’ve beta tested iOS. If they think this won’t backfire and there won’t be bugs then I’ve got a bridge in NYC to sell them. Seriously Apple, WTF????

Human review will filter out the bugs and get the actual pedos.
Stop with this “cops at your door” nonsense.
You need multiple offenses to even raise a red flag for human review.
These reactions are showing people are really bad at statistics, the chance of MULTIPLE offenses from the same user are infinitesimal.

 

[ian87w]

A well established repository of known CSAM?

Is it open for public scrutiny?

 

[cosmichobo]

Let's face it... If Apple did want to look at your pics, they can. Anything you trust to the cloud, you should assume could be viewed by Apple staff.

 

[Poindexter333]

This is what you get when you put an accountant in charge of the 2nd largest company in the world.

And an accountant without the tiniest shred of Steve Jobs talent in him. Just a bean counter.

 

[Robert.Walter]

So you mean to tell me the U.S. government will have to decide. When it comes to handling our privacy?

Technology and Government should not work together when it comes to dealing with PRIVACY.

I bet you there’s more to this story.

Someone needs to start a petition to put this to STOP.

View attachment 1815608

The message is clear: Do not store your stuff on iCloud. Make sure you order 1TB iPhone this year. (You're going to be needing the mega storage).

Doing the wrong thing for the right reason is still doing the wrong thing.

To me this feels like an appeasement move.

Maybe an accommodation made in
wake of the San Bernardino legal stand-off?

Undoubtedly there is US government pressure behind the scenes that we have no insight into.

Avoiding golden key order by opening up a golden window reporting system?

Appeasement never works. It only whets the appetite of the entity to be appeased and serves as a proof of concept for other entities paying attention.

There’s no way this won’t proliferate and propagate.

Worst idea ever.

 

[Robert.Walter]

That bean counter is the reason Apple became the 2nd largest company in the world. Some people ain't happy with the direction Apple is headed. Dollars to donuts, none of them are stockholders.

And many of us are.

This is a troubling development.

Instead of redoubling efforts to lock down devices and services with hyper emphasis on privacy against NSO type invasion and government intrusion, Apple has rolled out a proof of concept for digital surveillance. Governments will amend their laws to force expansion of this technology for additional purposes and Apple to protect market share will cave by “just following the law”.

By acting as a willing adjunct for state surveillance (or doing this as an accommodation to try to appease demands for more intrusive actions - which never works) Apple has become Big Brother’s Apprentice if not the Biggest Brother itself.

As this spreads, and it will take time to see this play out, it will affect users relationships to their Apple devices and services and not in a way that will increase trust or sales.

 

[MacBH928]

"Whats on your phone stays on your phone"

and our computers,
also we share with NCMEC
also NSA
ok maybe CIA
OK we have to comply with EU
ok, we have to open for the CCP its the law

but we assure we it stays on your phone.

 

[ian87w]

Let's face it... If Apple did want to look at your pics, they can. Anything you trust to the cloud, you should assume could be viewed by Apple staff.

True.
In the end, it's about trust. People don't trust Google for one bit, so whatever Google does, people would just laugh and move on since there's no building of trust to begin with. However, Apple has been using privacy as their USP for a while, building trust between them and their users. Thus it cause more people to be upset that that trust is being challenged by the company itself.

 

[giggles]

I think we need not to do the slightest sacrifice (even an anonymous-until-positive hash matching) for the cause of stopping child sexual abuse.

It‘s not big deal anyway and those are not my children, who cares.

/s

 

[killhippie]

This intrusive way to search phones for vile material will go wrong, this type of technology always goes wrong. In the UK where I live Maybe 7 year old (not 10 as someone as else said said yuk) at the beach or babies in the bath with mum and dad could potentially flag the system one day if its near enough to what looks like a known image and a family will have thier lives runied by a mistake made my an automated creep going though your images. Face recognition technology isnt good enough yet even though the London Met use it, and its made mistakes, and apples system will make mistakes too.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/face-recognition-police-uk-south-wales-met-notting-hill-carnival

As others have mentioned the potential for certain countries like Saudi Arabia to use this to persecute say the LGBTQ+ community or so called 'dissidents' who stand up to the corrupt and brutal government in Belarus are huge, this will be abused by them at some point I am sure. Apple have opened a huge can of worms here. Ive never used iCloud, I just dont trust what isn't on a secure thumbdrive saved safely at home or at a off premises location as a back up. I for the first time wont update to the latest iOS 15 even though I don't use iCloud because I don't agree that this is the best way to get paedophiles from swapping images, soon it will be all Apple devices that will use this tech and the idea of and that's way to 1984 ish for me, let alone buy a new iPhone with this baked in.


Child abuse is horrendous I went though physical violent abuse as a child, but this is not the way to fight it, so much for what happens on your iPhone stays on your iPhone.There are better ways to fight paedophile gangs I'm sure that we don't know about that the forces already use I would imagine than this very intrusive way to rifle though your images. All they need is to get one image wrongly classified and this will be a train wreck. In countries where the age of consent is different (16 in the UK) or beach pictures of bath time with the kids is seen in a different light to say the USA or Canada and the whole house of cards that is already wobbling and this could ruin Apples reputation when not if this happens.

The fact governments are loving this idea should say enough. At last a way onto your phone as Apple fold to give governments around the world the control they want over individuals who like to be private for very meaningful reasons in countries where their lives could be at risk. Also the "if you've done nothing wrong" really doesn't apply here, as being gay in Saudi Arabia isn't wrong but it sure will be easier to find out now and the governments will get access its a given, its not safe technology and I for one at this point in time wont be loading iOS 15 or getting a new iPhone because I don't trust technology like this not to f*ck up and cause immense harm to someone innocent, while vile images are swapped in all probability not electronically because paedophiles and other criminals probably don't trust the web to spread their vile and disgusting habits anyway. The EFF said it very well in this article below.

"Apple's filtering of iMessage and iCloud is not a slippery slope to backdoors that suppress speech and make our communications less secure. We’re already there: this is a fully-built system just waiting for external pressure to make the slightest change."

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/...t-encryption-opens-backdoor-your-private-life

 

[Expos of 1969]

Human review will filter out the bugs and get the actual pedos.

Of course it will....NOT. Apple has set the bar with the fine human review in its App Store...ha ha

Time for you to face reality.

 

[TheOldChevy]

I have very mixed feelings about this.
1) The declared purpose is good
2) The proposed solution is suggesting a lot of issues on how it will evolve over time
3) Apple says that it will only be used for people registering to iCloud, but how can I be sure ?
4) I am convinced that photos were already inspected on iCloud Photo
5) I am nearly convinced that all gouvernements of large countries already are able to do the same without me, or Apple, knowing it (there is not reason only one Israeli firm is able to do that with Pegasus, or remember the Echelon story)

So I am basically exchanging some supposed security for more security for kids.

To make it short, I am not happy with the direction it is taking, but I think that we are already there. I am just surprised that Apple contributes to it and communicates about it.

 

[killhippie]

Taken from EL Reg "Governments in the West and authoritarian regions alike will be delighted by this initiative, Green feared. What's to stop China (or some other censorious regime such as Russia or the UK) from feeding images of wanted fugitives into this technology and using that to physically locate them?


"That is the horror scenario of this technology," said Green. "Apple is the only service that still operates a major E2EE service in China, in iMessage. With this technology public, will China demand that Apple add scanning capability to iMessage? I don't know. But I'm sure a lot more worried about it than I was two days ago."


According to Green, who said he had spoken to people who had been briefed about the scheme, the scanning tech will be implemented in a "two party" design. As he explained it: "Apple will hold the unencrypted database of photos (really the training data for the neural matching function) and your phone will hold the photos themselves. The two will communicate to scan the photos on your phone. Alerts will be sent to Apple if *multiple* photos in your library match, it can't just be a single one."


"The privacy-busting scanning tech will be deployed against America-based iThing users first, with the idea being to gradually expand it around the world as time passes. Green said it would be initially deployed against photos backed up in iCloud before expanding to full handset scanning.


If this is the future of using Apple devices, it might not only be sex offenders who question Apple's previously-stated commitment to protecting user privacy."

Apple is about to start scanning iPhone users' devices for banned content, professor warns

For now it's child abuse material but the tech has mission creep written in

www.theregister.com

 

[giggles]

I think we’re stuck at the point of “slippery slope because…slippery slope”.

Otherwise even the app kill switch and notarization could be abused for censorship, if pressured by governments.

Even the real time deep picture analysis smartphones do nowadays whenever we take a photo.

What CAN’T be abused in these day and age. On device neural processors are getting too powerful, they can do too much stuff within a time scale that is too small for humans to have a say or even understand.

What are we gonna do about it? Stop image AI processing from becoming so powerful? Or maybe hold companies accountable when actual abuse emerges and not over technicalities? Facebook lecturing Apple on this? Really? For real?

 

[Mydel]

Human review will filter out the bugs and get the actual pedos.
Stop with this “cops at your door” nonsense.
You need multiple offenses to even raise a red flag for human review.
These reactions are showing people are really bad at statistics, the chance of MULTIPLE offenses from the same user are infinitesimal.

Even worse. Some people will be looking through my private stuff just cos AI told them so… im horrified with the kind of thinking you present

 

[giggles]

Even worse. Some people will be looking through my private stuff just cos AI told them so… im horrified with the kind of thinking you present

It’s nearly impossible to escalate to human review if you don’t have multiple pedo pics on your device.
Not understanding this is some anti-vax level of failing at statistics and computer science.

Now, one could still argue that the system is a black box and not fully transparent, but is Apple really that incompetent to create a system that generates tons of false positives and unnecessary human reviews? With their track record of championing privacy?

 

[killhippie]

I wonder when its not images they are scanning for but ideologies that don't comply with your friendly government's ideals? Saying this wont happen now is maybe true, maybe not who knows but once you let it happen just for iMessage and photos the path is laid and paved for whatever they want to do down the line and there will be no coming back.

 

[martinX]

This is terrible. Apple is demonstrating terrible behaviour and terrible reasoning.

"No matter how well-intentioned, Apple is rolling out mass surveillance to the entire world with this," said prominent whistleblower Edward Snowden, adding that "if they can scan for kiddie porn today, they can scan for anything tomorrow."

I'd add: "and at anyone's behest."

Question: who asked Apple to do this?

 

[giggles]

If they can scan for faces, dogs, trees and the sky the very moment you’re taking a picture, they can scan for anything.

Nothing new.

Where was Snowden in the last 10 years?

 

[giggles]

#BAN_COMPUTERVISION
#BAN_NEURALENGINES
#BAN_AI

we’re getting close to the point of those anti-tech rebel groups in dystopian sci-fi stories..like Yevon vs Al Bhed in Final Fantasy X..

 

[killhippie]

#BAN_COMPUTERVISION
#BAN_NEURALENGINES
#BAN_AI

we’re getting close to the point of those anti-tech rebel groups in dystopian sci-fi stiries..like Yevon vs Al Bhed in Final Fantasy X..

Yes we are and maybe for a good reason too. So called 'AI' can be abused, is being abused and will continue to be abused and when its handset scanning and you get a visit in the not to distant future because of the iMessage you wrote contains inflammatory comments about you countries leader, or you look like you might be a bit of a free thinker but not in the way they want you to be, you may well wish you had stood against this. I mean if Belarus leader, Alexander Lukashenko can force a plane down because of who is on board imagine what he can do when they know who you are, what your party views are and where you are in real time, to pop by for a nice cup of tea and a chat! <cough>

 

[Mydel]

It’s nearly impossible to escalate to human review if you don’t have multiple pedo pics on your device.
Not understanding this is some anti-vax level of failing at statistics and computer science.

Now, one could still argue that the system is a black box and not fully transparent, but is Apple really that incompetent to create a system that generates tons of false positives and unnecessary human reviews? With their track record of championing privacy?

Its about the action not ramifications. i dont use icloud pictures. Have my own server. Never store anything in the cloud etc etc. when it comes to incompetent… yes they are. They creating the tools to be used in other ways, they are using my device that i payed for to scan for things and they can be either pressured or bought to do certain things next. Looks at china and icloud issue. Championing privacy is letting me be. If i wish to buy some service i would do that. There is nothing privatebin snooping around in my phone..I dont use imessage also just in case they change their mind. For that i use threema and protonmail for email. Im not paranoid I just think someone has to take a stand.

 

[-DMN-]

I have always been an apple fanboy until now. Some things started to bug me, like deplatforming, too much political correctness, and ****** boring Apple TV + content. But those were minor things.

Even if apple walks back, I have completely lost faith in Tim Cook as a leader

Well said, I feel identically the same.

 

[sirozha]

iCloud is not a sewer. You can’t force Apple to accept fecal matter on iCloud willy nilly.

Triaging data in an anonymous, automated and local way is not outside the scope of what a cloud company may do.

Laws and morals changes by country and time, but last time I checked CP is universally reviled nowadays. Judge Apple if and when they abuse this. So far it’s just one more check, together with all the other things they check for to be able to find a dog or ice cream in your picture collection.

What is child porn? Can you define it?

Is taking a picture of your child playing in a bathtub child porn?

Is taking a picture of your child’s private parts to send it to the doctor (because there’s a problem) child porn?

Will a doctor now be considered a serial child porn dealer?

You see how this becomes a problem very quickly?

Apple wouldn’t unlock the iPhone of a terrorist who killed scores of people, but they would now spy after hundreds of millions of people to try and find child porn on their Apple devices?

AI won’t be able to properly identify a picture as child porn. It will flag a bunch of suspicious pictures, and then a HUMAN will be looking at your private pictures to decide to report you to the police or not. That is the ultimate Big Brother.

Fortunately, Windows 11 is a nice OS, and as soon as it runs on ARM, and there’s a decent non-Apple ARM laptop, I’m gone - after being an Apple fan for two decades. My next smartphone will also not be an iPhone. Until then, no more OS upgrades for me.

Now I just need to figure out the best time to divest my investments from AAPL. I already reduced them from several million to just over a million, but it’s now time to completely divest.

 

[PBMB]

Anyone knows how this will play with EU's GDPR?