Apple Already Testing a C2 Modem for iPhones, According to Leaker

[KENESS]

I agree.

Analog design portion of a modem chip is significantly different than the digital design associated with all of the other Apple chips. So Apple’s first pass success with the A and M1 chips, is not very relevant. Which goes to validate your concern.

No reason to assume Apple can't do two things.

 

[segfaultdotorg]

C5 was the best Corvette, maybe the C5 will also be the best Apple iModem.

 

[Reason077]

Work on that particular modem started a long time ago, Intel bought it from Infineon and then Apple from Intel, so easily goes back a decade.

That's not quite how it went down, though. Apple was said to have already been working for years on its own 5G modem at the time of the Intel modem acquisition in 2019, and was planning to use the resources it was acquiring from Intel to add to it's own 5G effort. (In 2019, the Apple 5G modem was said to be "at least 3 years away", and here we are nearly 6 years later...)

Apple stopped using the Intel modems not long after they acquired them, switching back to Qualcomm for the iPhone 12 and up. So while the C1 will certainly have been worked on by former Intel employees and may have incorporated ideas and technology from them, it isn't directly descended from the Infineon/Intel lineage.

 

[Reason077]

Sigh... we've been hoping and waiting for a Mac with a built-in cell chip for at least 25 years...

But now it might finally happen! eSIMs and the C1 make it a much more realistic prospect.

Then again, I don't really see the appeal personally: tethering works great and I rarely, if ever, find myself somewhere with my MacBook but not my phone. I don't see much incentive to pay more for an extra data SIM when I can just tether to the SIM I already have in my phone.

 

[0049190]

This doesn’t happen overnight, Apple has been working on this for years. They would like to end their love hate relationship with Qualcomm as soon as possible.

 

[jdawgnoonan]

It is great that they are doing this, as an investor I think it is great, but as an iPhone user I could care less.

 

[Howard2k]

But now it might finally happen! eSIMs and the C1 make it a much more realistic prospect.

Then again, I don't really see the appeal personally: tethering works great and I rarely, if ever, find myself somewhere with my MacBook but not my phone. I don't see much incentive to pay more for an extra data SIM when I can just tether to the SIM I already have in my phone.

Agreed. No situation where I’d ever want that, I just wirelessly tether.

If they do go down they road I hope it’s a separate SKU like on the iPad.

 

[Diminish82]

So they should never try….make it make sense.

They should try, but users will be the true guinea pigs. Qualcomm owns the modem market with it's patent portfolio and Apple has already proven they are A-OK releasing an inferior product attempting to thwart them. (see iphone 11 with Intel modems..)

 

[Eorlas]

moment I read the C1 announcement, I expected there to be a C2 in the iPhone's this fall as one user commented that mmWave isn't supported by the C1

 

[neilw]

I still don’t see how Apple could possibly match the performance of Qualcomm, Huawei or even MediaTek in the cellular chip world. It’s an area mandate technology accumulation. The other three have already worked on it for two or more decades. It’s a path toward a sure failure from the very beginning.

I mean, the Apple guys are not going to just figure this out. They're not going to just walk in.

 

[Reason077]

Considering Huawei straight-up copied Cisco in 2003, got caught stealing from T-Mobile in 2014, and was involved in IP theft cases with Micron and Motorola in 2019, I wouldn’t even put their 'achievements' up for discussion, let alone compare them to legit companies.

Huawei (HiSilicon) have nothing competitive in the 5G space now days anyway. At least nothing that ships in volume. They had a half-decent 5G chipset (Balong 5000) back in 2019, but sanctions have hit them hard and now days they are far behind the industry leaders. The C1 will already be years ahead of anything Huawei have.

 

[menist]

It’s a modem, meant for transfer speeds, not battery saving. Why are they not mentioning the word “fast”?

 

[UltimaKilo]

I still don’t see how Apple could possibly match the performance of Qualcomm, Huawei or even MediaTek in the cellular chip world. It’s an area mandate technology accumulation. The other three have already worked on it for two or more decades. It’s a path toward a sure failure from the very beginning.

Yeah, why did Apple design their own processors? Those are designed to fail. Intel and AMD have had decades head start.

On a more serious note:

This is awesome. The power savings with the improved performance is incredibly welcomed.

 

[neilw]

It’s a modem, meant for transfer speeds, not battery saving. Why are they not mentioning the word “fast”?

I agree, most phone users don't care about battery life.

 

[Reason077]

moment I read the C1 announcement, I expected there to be a C2 in the iPhone's this fall as one user commented that mmWave isn't supported by the C1

mmWave is kind of a dead-end technology, globally speaking. Even in the US, the only country where it has been widely deployed, the carriers have dramatically scaled back their plans for it. It wouldn't surprise me if Apple ignores mmWave for their own chipsets and concentrates on technologies that will be more widely used.

 

[neilw]

mmWave is kind of a dead-end technology, globally speaking. Even in the US, the only country where it has been widely deployed, the carriers have dramatically scaled back their plans for it. It wouldn't surprise me if Apple ignores mmWave for their own chipsets and concentrates on technologies that will be more widely used.

I think for the flagship phones they have to support it, on principle (I for one couldn't care less about it). It's a very smart omission for the SE 16e.

 

[Reason077]

I think for the flagship phones they have to support it, on principle (I for one couldn't care less about it). It's a very smart omission for the SE 16e.

Apple will continue to ship some iPhone models with Qualcomm chips for the next couple of years, at least. Perhaps specifically for US carriers that demand mmWave support?

 

[jz0309]

That's not quite how it went down, though. Apple was said to have already been working for years on its own 5G modem at the time of the Intel modem acquisition in 2019, and was planning to use the resources it was acquiring from Intel to add to it's own 5G effort. (In 2019, the Apple 5G modem was said to be "at least 3 years away", and here we are nearly 6 years later...)

Apple stopped using the Intel modems not long after they acquired them, switching back to Qualcomm for the iPhone 12 and up. So while the C1 will certainly have been worked on by former Intel employees and may have incorporated ideas and technology from them, it isn't directly descended from the Infineon/Intel lineage.

Apple has around 1500 engineers in Munich and some of them are part of the modem development team, and you know where Infineon’s modems were developed, right?

So who/what exactly contributed to the C family, only Apple knows but the experience goes back to the Infineon days

 

[jz0309]

It’s a modem, meant for transfer speeds, not battery saving. Why are they not mentioning the word “fast”?

For the same reason that the majority of users don’t have nor plan to go to WiFi 7 until their router HW dies…
Speed is not everything to everyone.

 

[Chuckeee]

That's not quite how it went down, though. Apple was said to have already been working for years on its own 5G modem at the time of the Intel modem acquisition in 2019, and was planning to use the resources it was acquiring from Intel to add to it's own 5G effort. (In 2019, the Apple 5G modem was said to be "at least 3 years away", and here we are nearly 6 years later...)

Apple stopped using the Intel modems not long after they acquired them, switching back to Qualcomm for the iPhone 12 and up. So while the C1 will certainly have been worked on by former Intel employees and may have incorporated ideas and technology from them, it isn't directly descended from the Infineon/Intel lineage.

But the Intel modem and often delayed Apple G5 modem development has left many (including myself) to be skeptical about sensitivity from a new Apple modem. And issues others have observed with other non-Qualcomm modems have just reinforced the skepticism. So for me, this is one area that Apple doesn’t get “the benefit of doubt”.

I wish this new C1 modem works as hoped. But I’ll be holding judgement until the performance is actually demonstrated in the real world, beyond just laboratory testing.

 

[Howard2k]

It’s a modem, meant for transfer speeds, not battery saving. Why are they not mentioning the word “fast”?

I think there is a subset of users who care about speed, and a smaller subset who understand it, and then an even smaller subset who actually need it.

Seems like way more users would care about battery life to me.

 

[Chuckeee]

I think there is a subset of users who care about speed, and a smaller subset who understand it, and then an even smaller subset who actually need it.

Seems like way more users would care about battery life to me.

What consumers really care about are dropped connections and the ability to establish & maintain a connection with a low level signal strength. And those performance capabilities have yet to be verified.

Hope the C1 modem is successful in this regard.

 

[Tomasulu]

What consumers really care about are dropped connections and the ability to establish & maintain a connection with a low level signal strength. And those performance capabilities have yet to be verified.

Hope the C1 modem is successful in this regard.

Yup. I also don’t understand people who said they don’t care about speed. Almost everything we do on the phone depends on network connectivity. Imagine everyone around you is fine with their connections but your 16e struggles with a stable connectivity and proper 5g speed. Whats the point of having a longer battery life then.

 

[Reason077]

Yup. I also don’t understand people who said they don’t care about speed.

Speed is a consideration, sure. But if it comes down to better peak speed vs. a stable connection in marginal signal areas, then I'd choose the radio that works better in the marginal area every time. I'd also argue that for most of us, battery life is a much bigger concern than absolute speed too. Faster downloads might save you a few seconds here and there... but a battery that lasts hours longer might save you a lot more than that!

 

[bhirt37]

I agree.

Analog design portion of a modem chip is significantly different than the digital design associated with all of the other Apple chips. So Apple’s first pass success with the A and M1 chips, is not very relevant. Which goes to validate your concern.

I agree, but I also disagree. The have a lot of experience with wireless communication, antennas, etc. the have custom wireless chip W & H series. Not cellular, but wireless with antenna.

The hardest part of this process must be navigating the 10s of thousands of 5g patents.