Apple, Amazon and Google Smart Home Alliance Announces New 'Matter' Connectivity Standard

[name99]

Look forward to the firmware updates for my Ring, Hive, Sonos, Blink, Echo, Hue, Tapo stuff

Maybe.

Most of those don't even have Thread so ...

Look, this is messy and not ideal. It's like the networking mid-game in the 80s.
Standardizing on Thread was the equivalent of everyone agreeing "yeah, we'll accept ethernet as the networking HW" (rather than TokenRing, serial line AppleTalk and the rest of them). That agreement required (over some years) replacing a lot of HW with ethernet hardware.

But even after everyone agree on ethernet, we still need agreement on every higher level of the stack. We need agreement on the TCP/IP equivalent. Then on the HTTP equivalent. Then on the HTML equivalent.

At least everything happens a lot faster ONCE THE COMMON HARDWARE is in place. That's the real tipping point -- we need Thread HW in every new device NOW so that, five year later, Thread HW is in every home having replaced stuff over the subsequent five years.

 

[name99]

Sole purpose of which is to eliminate the existing standards and give the big 3 a competitive stranglehold.

Oh FFS.

 

[Jamie0003]

Complete Philips Hue range to be compatible with Matter | Signify Company Website

Signify announces all existing and new Philips Hue smart lights and accessories will be compatible with Matter via a software update to the Hue Bridge.

www.signify.com

That’s only support for the bridge, which doesn’t really bring any benefit since thread devices will only be able to talk to the bridge as opposed to the bulbs themselves

 

[ChrisA]

Wonder if the older products can have firmware updates to support the new standard?

No. No one is motivated to add functionality to a device you have already paid for. But you can use a "bridge", THis might just be software that runs on a computer.

 

[kwikdeth]

Sure, if you’re bound and determined to ensure it ends up in the landfill. There’s so many places that offer recycling, you have to make an effort to guarantee they end up in the landfill. It’s possible the garbage company separates the recyclables as well, so you’re going to have to drive to the landfill yourself.

I live in a very progressive, liberal city and they offer no electronics recycling of any kind. More importantly, what about all those people who don't have any access to recycling at all? Try to look at the situation past your own limited example case.

 

[kwikdeth]

Why do you think anyone is going to stop supporting their own ecosystem? In Apple's case all they have to do is incorporate Matter support into Siri and their Home app.

"Why would anybody stop supporting their own ecosystem"
I don't know... Changing wifi standards that get dropped as tech progresses, or just plain money. How do companies make money? By selling more product. Tying them into a technology with a limited lifespan like a wireless standard artificially limits it's lifespan.
You gonna go replace all the $49 wifi switches in your house in 8 years when nothing works with 802.11n anymore? If you don't think so I've got a stack of old Airport routers you can have as paperweights.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I live in a very progressive, liberal city and they offer no electronics recycling of any kind. More importantly, what about all those people who don't have any access to recycling at all? Try to look at the situation past your own limited example case.

The point still stands. If you WANT your electronics to end up in a landfill, and a LOT of people do, you can work to make sure that happens. Nothing wrong with that, no one is forcing anyone to recycle or give their old devices to someone else who might want them.

 

[vipergts2207]

"Why would anybody stop supporting their own ecosystem"
I don't know... Changing wifi standards that get dropped as tech progresses, or just plain money. How do companies make money? By selling more product. Tying them into a technology with a limited lifespan like a wireless standard artificially limits it's lifespan.
You gonna go replace all the $49 wifi switches in your house in 8 years when nothing works with 802.11n anymore? If you don't think so I've got a stack of old Airport routers you can have as paperweights.

What are you even on about? Brand new Wifi 6 routers still support 802.11b which is over 2 decades old. And Apple doesn’t sell smart home products so they don’t care about Philips or Ecobee making more money. Apple does care about their own customers’ experience though and they will simply bring Matter support to their own ecosystem. Finally, all of my switches and bulbs connect to wired hubs, so I’m not at all concerned about that. Your arguments are all straight FUD, plain and simple.

 

[CPTmom2wp]

We use only the Home app and only purchase smart home products that are compatible with the Apple app. The reason is privacy and security to the extent possible, by staying within the Apple ecosystem. We purchased the non-Alexa Ecobee thermostats for this reason. Will this newly announced compatibility for all home devices cause us to lose the Apple assured privacy? Or, will Alexa and Google now be able to listen to conversations via Siri?

 

[ecowood]

Where the hell is LIFX on this list?

 

[ecowood]

LIFX is listed here

Build With Matter | Smart Home Device Solution

Matter creates connections between devices, simplifies development for manufacturers, and increases compatibility for consumers.

buildwithmatter.com

 

[Alan Wynn]

Philips just promised firmware updates for all past products. So yes.

Not exactly. They have said they would update their bridge, but nothing about updating the firmware on the devices which would be much better. This means that they still have a single point of failure with the bridge, rather than switching the bulbs from Zigbee to Thread, which would make it a better mesh.

 

[macduke]

So does this mean Ring will finally support HomeKit like they promised many years ago so I don't have to use a Raspberry Pi using HomeBridge which only works part of the time?

 

[ericwn]

Not exactly. They have said they would update their bridge, but nothing about updating the firmware on the devices which would be much better. This means that they still have a single point of failure with the bridge, rather than switching the bulbs from Zigbee to Thread, which would make it a better mesh.

True the bridge adds a potential point of failure but after almost a decade of using the stuff I never had that happen.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

True the bridge adds a potential point of failure but after almost a decade of using the stuff I never had that happen.

In my home configuration, the least of my worries is the Hue bridge. Then again, I’m not depending on the lights extending their connection to other things in the house. Maybe if it was a longer house, it’d be different.

 

[Alan Wynn]

True the bridge adds a potential point of failure but after almost a decade of using the stuff I never had that happen.

As long as you did not use a Wink hub, a Resolv hub or any of the other ones that has shut down over the last few years. Many of these devices like Nest require an internet connection and their servers to be able to function as they do not support local control. Matter (like HomeKit) support local control, meaning that one is not dependent on some company maintaining servers (the issue with Resolv).

 

[mw360]

As long as you did not use a Wink hub, a Resolv hub or any of the other ones that has shut down over the last few years. Many of these devices like Nest require an internet connection and their servers to be able to function as they do not support local control. Matter (like HomeKit) support local control, meaning that one is not dependent on some company maintaining servers (the issue with Resolv).

Hue doesn’t require external servers, nor official apps, nor the Hue Bridge. There are 3rd party Zigbee hubs that work, including Amazon Echo Plus, and a thing from Ikea.

 

[spicymints]

lovely...this sounds very promising. I will keep my hopes up until proven otherwise.

Hahah look at what happened to RCS.

 

[Zmmyt]

Hahah look at what happened to RCS.

What’s RCS?

 

[name99]

What’s RCS?

I think he's referring to this:

Rich Communication Services - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

his point being that superficially similar consortia have not delivered much of value.

And that's true in some cases. Important differences, however, are
- telcos were involved with (and mainly controlled/limited) RCS. So already do I need to say more...
- the competent side of the consortium, ie the computer companies, all had their own reasons for not especially caring about a "generic" alternative to their messaging services.

In the case of Matter the primary companies involved are, shall we say, slightly more *dynamic* than the telcos. AND they have seen how 5+ years of the current system (proprietary non-interop) is both bad for their customers and has not delivered great riches for anyone. So they have motivation to improve the status quo, and no motivation to retain its current flaws.

 

[Cesar Battistini]

Not exactly. They have said they would update their bridge, but nothing about updating the firmware on the devices which would be much better. This means that they still have a single point of failure with the bridge, rather than switching the bulbs from Zigbee to Thread, which would make it a better mesh.

Isn't thread a specific hardware implementation?

Because the old HomePod has no support for it and the new one does. and I haven't heard of any product being updated to thread?

 

[name99]

Isn't thread a specific hardware implementation?

Because the old HomePod has no support for it and the new one does. and I haven't heard of any product being updated to thread?

The Thread radio and protocol is close enough to BT LE that some BT LE chipsets can be modified to Thread via a FW update -- IF the vendor cares enough to do the work. Essentially Thread is BT LE at the radio level (with all that implies in terms of power, range, and discoverability) BUT with IPv6 added on top to allow routing and so hopping from one devices to another to another.

Newsroom and Events

Stay updated on Thread Group news, events and press coverage to learn how we are reliably and securely connecting hundreds of product types across the globe.

www.threadgroup.org

Eve is the only company I know of that has actually done this work.
Presumably many others could in principle -- BUT of course it's hard work validating such a port, even if you have open source doing most of the work. As important, the hardware (CPU, and more importantly RAM) may not be sufficient on at least some devices to run IPv6 stack as well as their existing code.

HomeKit Over Thread With HomePod mini and Eve | evehome.com

A smart home without any limitations: discover how HomePod mini, Eve and Thread bring your smart home to the next level.

www.evehome.com

 

[spicymints]

I think he's referring to this:

Rich Communication Services - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

his point being that superficially similar consortia have not delivered much of value.

And that's true in some cases. Important differences, however, are
- telcos were involved with (and mainly controlled/limited) RCS. So already do I need to say more...
- the competent side of the consortium, ie the computer companies, all had their own reasons for not especially caring about a "generic" alternative to their messaging services.

In the case of Matter the primary companies involved are, shall we say, slightly more *dynamic* than the telcos. AND they have seen how 5+ years of the current system (proprietary non-interop) is both bad for their customers and has not delivered great riches for anyone. So they have motivation to improve the status quo, and no motivation to retain its current flaws.

Well look no further than to Android. It's a fragmented ecosystem which Google completely retains control over therefore Samsung heavily skins Android to make a switch from Samsung devices to other Android devices--not a major factor for me but its their intent. Delayed updates also because Samsung doesn't want to build out wealth for Google and Google can then build out a device sort of like Apple is vertically integrating a lot of features. Then Samsung has competing Google Services which they replace majority with their own. I don't hate Samsung it's better for me as a consumer because competition is better. It's a conflict of interest especially for these companies so it will be a half ass product because of who gets to retain control over what rather than being an open source spec.