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Seems to me one of the purposes of marriage is to foster procreation, and last time I checked its impossible for a man to impregnate another man or a woman another woman. If society doesn't procreate what happens to it?

That is an interesting perspective but I think a bit out dated.

A) Plenty of married people choose not to have children by choice.

B) Many unmarried people go ahead and have children anyway.

Based on these exceptions to the general goal of Marriage = children, don't you think it would be ok to let two consenting adults enjoy the same tax and legal benefits of a married couple that chooses not to have children? Neither group is furthering the goal of procreation of biological children. Of course the gay couple might be able to help children born to group B but that is whole other discussion.
 
It's an entirely valid justification because most of the opposition to homosexuality comes from the belief that it's a choice.

If it could be 100% proven that being gay was not a choice, and that gay people could not stop being gay, then it would be a LOT harder for anyone to publicly oppose it.

It would certainly make a lot of the religious arguments look weak. Most of them relate to religious texts that suggest that it is a choice and that anyone choosing to be like that is evil.

If you remove choice from the equation, most of the arguments against Gay Marriage collapse.



The difficulty is that they can't demonstrate that, because it's not the truth!

I completely disagree. Religion is definitely a choice and is a protected class. Some of the worlds largest religions have adopted a stance that there is a clear difference between having been born with tendencies and acting on those tendencies. So, these religions have accepted your genetic argument and it has done nothing to stop them from declaring homosexual behavior to be wrong. I still think that there are ways to argue for this without focussing on the genetics.
 
Never seen the big issue.

If you don't like gay marriage don't get married to a gay. Problem solved.
 
Personally. I think it's up to the states because it's not in the constitution. But..

Since you mentioned it and just for the sake of debate.

What would happen if everybody became gay ?

How would society produce children ? Other than using genetic manipulation.

Erm why would everyone become gay? What does allowing gay marriage have to do with reproduction?
 
Why are corporations involved in social questions? I don't think it's a good move to do that. Also, please don't turn the classic Apple logo into a gay statement. I like to be able to stick that on my Mac without looking like a political activist.
 
Seems to me one of the purposes of marriage is to foster procreation, and last time I checked its impossible for a man to impregnate another man or a woman another woman. If society doesn't procreate what happens to it?

What has that have to do with gay marriage? Seriously, tell me how if gay marriage is allowed, other people will some how now have less children?
 
As long as Apple doesn't shove it in my face I'll keep using their products. But if they do I'll have no problem dumping them like I've done with Amazon and JCPenney. I'd love to do it with Google and Microsoft but its damn near impossible. :(

Pretty soon you'll be relegated to eating at Chick fil A and shopping at Walmart and the Salvation Army stores.
 
Never seen the big issue.

If you don't like gay marriage don't get married to a gay. Problem solved.

Yeah, I know. There's stupidity on both sides. Nowhere in the US is it illegal for two men or two women to marry right now; it just won't be recognized everywhere. Screw this, FOCUS ON THE ECONOMY!
 
Personally. I think it's up to the states because it's not in the constitution. But..

Since you mentioned it and just for the sake of debate.

What would happen if everybody became gay ?

How would society produce children ? Other than using genetic manipulation.

Ok. I'll bite/ If everybody became gay, they would have sexual relations with the same gender for fun and then have sex with the opposite gender when it was time to have kids. Or men would go to doctors and leave a sample to be placed in women who are ready to have children. So I solved your problem with two seconds of thought. So...what was your point?
 
You people are missing the point of the anti-gay sentiments. It's about taxes and economics
 
The government has been involved in marriage because it has deemed the institution good for society. That's why there are tax breaks for married filing jointly, etc. The prevailing idea was that the government should promote marriage to establish greater social stability and make sure that children were provided for.

Those days are long gone. With the ease of divorce and the numbers of children born outside of a marriage, the government should no longer be involved in marriage. The problem is, How do you get out of it? Property laws, custody issues, etc. are all set-up. The government should get out of this altogether, but never will because everything is too intertwined.

I half agree with you… because I'm not sure 'marriage' should be a government concern either. You can protect people's rights without dictating the terms of something so personal as the marriage relationship. But I wouldn't say the 'days are long gone' where marriage creates greater social stability. Society is the sum of its people, and each person is born to a mum and a dad, and when those two are emotionally healthy, there is great benefit to growing up under their love and care. I would agree with those who say this is the ideal. Life is rarely ideal, but I still think there's value in calling a spade a spade.

So I'm defining 'marriage' here to mean a man and a woman who, in most cases, go on to create a family. And I'd argue (although I know I'll be unpopular here for doing so), that this relationship (recognised throughout every civilised culture throughout history as far as we know) is special, and as such deserves a unique word.

If it's discriminatory to have a word that only applies to a male–female union, then I suppose we should stop using any words that distinguish gender—wife, husband, woman, man, girl, boy, daughter, son, and so on. Some brands of feminism tried to do this, in the mistaken belief that it would create equality. Diluting our language and pretending there aren't differences isn't really addressing the source of bigotry. Why can't we recognise the differences (whether we're talking about gender, or sexuality, or race, or belief), but still teach and model love and respect?
 
I kind of don't understand what the hell gay marriage law changes have to do with businesses? Seriously? Sure I guess the support is appreciated by the gay community, but I just don't understand what the hell it has to do with corporations?

America, your a strange place?
 
In the countries where gay marriage - and indeed polygamy - is legal, society seems not to have been adversely affected. What are the fears?

I don't think you can say that with full confidence, but I still don't see what's wrong with allowing gay marriage. I also don't see what's right about it.
 
While I don't think someone should be discriminated against because they are gay, I abhor the "Born that way" argument. Not saying that people aren't born gay, but genetics is not a free pass for behavior. Many criminals have genetic propensities for violence, but we don't condone that. So, please, please use a better argument than "I'm genetically predisposed so it's OK."
I suppose that being genetically predisposed to being a male or female does not give you the right to get married, according to your logic.

Also you are implying that being gay equates to being a criminal.

Seig heil!

:rolleyes:
 
I kind of don't understand what the hell gay marriage law changes have to do with businesses? Seriously? Sure I guess the support is appreciated by the gay community, but I just don't understand what the hell it has to do with corporations?

Not having Gay Marriage makes employing gay people more expensive for companies.
 
How would society produce children ? Other than using genetic manipulation.
If we're playing what-if sci-fi, the answer is "well-organized consensual insemination." You wouldn't even need technology to do it--you could easily organize such a system in a hypothetical pre-industrial society in which 100% of the population was gay and/or the civilization was structured around making heterosexuality unacceptable or outright outlawed.

Honestly, with a little bit of sci-fi or fantasy writing applied, it doesn't take much effort at all to envision several different versions of such a civilization that could function.

Of course, one doesn't have to, because only a modest percentage of the population is actually gay, and there is no evidence that allowing such people to live their lives in peace, and/or allowing them to marry others of the same gender, will have any effect whatsoever on that percentage.

In fact, if you want to start playing crazy what-if games, and assume that gayness is purely genetic, allowing gay people to marry each other will if anything reduce the chances of interbreeding with the non-gay population, thereby reducing the prevalence of the gene overall. So even less-virulent homophobes should be in favor of gay marriage.
 
I kind of don't understand what the hell gay marriage law changes have to do with businesses? Seriously? Sure I guess the support is appreciated by the gay community, but I just don't understand what the hell it has to do with corporations?

America, your a strange place?

Seriously, corporations should not take a stance on these things.
 
And actually, that is how many of the opponents of gay marriage are planning to stop it. By showing how it will destroy society. So, your providing them with the ammunition that they are going to shoot back with.


We heard that same tired old argument with the end of slavery…giving women the right to vote…equal rights for women…civil rights…gay marriage.
 
Accepting gay marriage is progress IMO. It's not hurting anyone, and the less prejudice in the world, the better.

Nice to see Apple taking the position. Open mindness.
 
Their CEO is gay, what would you expect?

And the CEO of the other companies are what?

Abercrombie & Fitch Co. (ANF)
Alamos Gold (AGI)
Becton Dickinson (BDX)
Cisco Systems (CSCO)
Cummins (CMI)
EBay Inc. (EBAY)
Facebook Inc. (FB)
Intel Corp., (INTC)
Kimpton Hotel & Restaurant Group
Levi Strauss (LVISF)
Marsh & McLennan Cos. (MMC)
McGraw Hill (MHP)
Morgan Stanley (MS)
NCR Corp. (NCR)
Nike Inc. (NKE)
Oracle Corp. (ORCL)
Office Depot Inc. (ODP)
Panasonic Corp. (6752)
Qualcomm Inc. (QCOM)
Sun Life Financial Inc. (SLF)
Xerox Corp. (XRX)
Zynga Inc. (ZNGA)
 
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