Apple and Beats Scrapped Sonos-Like Speaker Post Acquisition

[Uofmtiger]

So let me get this straight, you have expensive Amps, Speakers, to stream low quality music. Am I missing something? I would agree if you are listening to CD's or vinyl in home. The point of speakers like Beats and Echo is to stream either over wifi or Bluetooth. Cannot compare them to Sonos or Bose for high end purposes. Great value for streaming at less then $200 and you get the very impressive voice control of not only your music but many of life's essential tasks. I was not comparing Echo to Sonos and other high end systems, rather to Beats speakers. In that world, Echo is very competitive both in price point, sound, and use. Apple has all the infrastructure to do the same if not better. The purpose of this tread, for me, was to challenge Apple.

AirPlay is capable of streaming lossless CD quality audio via wifi. As a result, many use it in higher end audio systems ranging from nearly every mainstream receiver brand to McIntosh and Classe components. So yeah, you can use decent speakers with it.

I also stream from 256 & 320k sources, and yes, they sound better when you have decent speakers.

Personally, I think Echo is a different brand of product than AirPlay or Sonos. However, I will be curious to see how well Siri works with Apple Music, but I subscribe to iTunes Match, and I can already tell it to play an artist and it will do so. Then I just hit the AirPlay button for my receiver and it will turn it on, put it on the correct input and let me control audio volume right from the iPhone. It can't get much easier and I don't have to sacrifice decent sound quality as a result of using it.

I am not surprised that Apple didn't want to use a technology outside of AirPlay or Bluetooth for Beats speakers. AirPlay and Bluetooth are already part of the iOS system and there is no point in using a different tech. If anything, they may continue to develop AirPlay and give it more direct from web streaming abilities with the Appletv.

 

[ThisIsNotMe]

OK, not great for you. Lots of people think Sonos is great... perhaps not for that particular application (and you should use a quality receiver for audio decoding). I wouldn't choose Sonos for my surround sound setup either but they are excellent for multi-room audio with individual user flexibility and iTunes compatibility. Someone who wants easy plug & play, with or without wires, so that they can play iTunes (or other sources) in any rooms AND their roommates/family can play other music in other rooms, all controlled manually or with iDevices, will find Sonos hard to beat. Their only weakness IMO is price (they are priced like they are made by Apple). There's a few other companies trying to offer competition but they are pretty far behind.

Sonos is not trying to be a home theater speaker company though they do have some speakers that may make one think that. They are trying to be king of what is known as "whole house audio" and for that, they are arguably head and shoulders above everyone else for any iTunes-centric consumers. In short, while they make pretty good speakers, if you think Sonos is about the speaker(s), you're missing the greater value in what they offer. I personally think their best products don't even have a speaker in them. You might want to look again.

Around here, some of us seem to be burning for the ability to flip lights on & off, etc. via home kit... like that's going to change our lives or something. Sonos products are already fully functional homekit-like implementations for iTunes audio (and other sources): any music or iTunes playlists in any room all easily controlled with iDevices... using speakers you already have or buy... or some speakers they offer. If Apple was trying to get into whole house audio, Sonos is probably exactly how they would do it. I'm guessing they dropped the Beats product to compete because it didn't compete.

My point being that it doesn't include AirPlay or DTS so if you are going to go the receive rout/AirPlay you might as well go with an AirPlay solution instead of some hybrid bastard system.

 

[DudeDad]

I have extensive experience with the Echo. The sound quality is meh. Sorry, but there are better speakers out there. I use Sonos amps with my own speakers. I'lll put my Rogers LS3/5A speakers up against the Echo any day....you would listen and realize how silly the Echo sounds. As for voice integration, not a deal breaker....I'll take sound quality over voice integration any day. LISTENING to music is much more important than TALKING to music. Never, ever compromise sound quality over a perceived convenience. The fact that your friends are impressed is irrelevant...they probably think that MP3s sound great as well.

So let me get this straight, you have expensive Amps, Speakers, to stream low quality music. Am I missing something? I would agree if you are listening to CD's or vinyl in home. The point of speakers like Beats and Echo is to stream either over wifi or Bluetooth. Cannot compare them to Sonos or Bose for high end purposes. Great value for streaming at less then $200 and you get the very impressive voice control of not only your music but many of life's essential tasks. I was not comparing Echo to Sonos and other high end systems, rather to Beats speakers. In that world, Echo is very competitive both in price point, sound, and use. Apple has all the infrastructure to do the same if not better. The purpose of this tread, for me, was to challenge Apple.

You are not challenging Apple with the Echo. It's a typical Amazon product. Fanfare with no followup. I suppose you have a Kindle Fire (fail) and a Fire Phone (double fail). If you actually tried Sonos, you'd get it. Stick to what you know.

 

[npmacuser5]

Yo

AirPlay is capable of streaming lossless CD quality audio via wifi. As a result, many use it in higher end audio systems ranging from nearly every mainstream receiver brand to McIntosh and Classe components. So yeah, you can use decent speakers with it.

I also stream from 256 & 320k sources, and yes, they sound better when you have decent speakers.

Personally, I think Echo is a different brand of product than AirPlay or Sonos. However, I will be curious to see how well Siri works with Apple Music, but I subscribe to iTunes Match, and I can already tell it to play an artist and it will do so. Then I just hit the AirPlay button for my receiver and it will turn it on, put it on the correct input and let me control audio volume right from the iPhone. It can't get much easier and I don't have to sacrifice decent sound quality as a result of using it.

I am not surprised that Apple didn't want to use a technology outside of AirPlay or Bluetooth for Beats speakers. AirPlay and Bluetooth are already part of the iOS system and there is no point in using a different tech. If anything, they may continue to develop AirPlay and give it more direct from web streaming abilities with the Appletv.

Your points are well taken. However you missed what my point was. Apple has the infrastructure like AirPlay, Siri, iCloud, but missed the point of streaming badly for many. To stream to all AirPlay speakers at once using Apple software you need a Mac of some kind. That is just not right and you take out your phone to control the music, well I much prefer to say Alexa take it up or Alexa skip, or Alexa play another playlist, etc. Apple needs to integrate Siri into AirPlay, Beats speakers, dump the need for a Mac, be more like Sonos with a bonus of Siri integration. Hope that clarifies my point.

 

[Uofmtiger]

Your points are well taken. However you missed what my point was. Apple has the infrastructure like AirPlay, Siri, iCloud, but missed the point of streaming badly for many. To stream to all AirPlay speakers at once using Apple software you need a Mac of some kind. That is just not right and you take out your phone to control the music, well I much prefer to say Alexa take it up or Alexa skip, or Alexa play another playlist, etc. Apple needs to integrate Siri into AirPlay, Beats speakers, dump the need for a Mac, be more like Sonos with a bonus of Siri integration. Hope that clarifies my point.

I agree that they should be able to stream to any or all AirPlay speakers. It is not a limitation of AirPlay or iOS, so I am not sure why they haven't made that available. The WHAALE app can do it with Internet radio, music sitting on a NAS, music on iOS, and Deezer now (they also have a complicated work around for Spotify), so it is just a matter of Apple making it available on a hardware level and within their own apps. However, I wasn't responding to that point, I was responding to the insinuation that music streaming is somehow so crappy that the speakers weren't important.

Secondly, I think Apple Music and iOS9 will be bringing Siri to a new level. They have already said you can tell Siri to play songs from 1982 or play a specific song next. Siri integration is the main reason I will be trying Apple Music.

Also, the strange thing is that Apple has removed iOS Airplay capabilities for no real reason. I have two iOS apps now, Airfoil speakers & Airmusic, that allow you to stream music from on iOS device to another iOS device running either of these apps. They allowed users at that time to keep that ability, but it isn't available to new users of these apps. Airmusic was actually removed from the App Store. Airfoil speakers for iOS is now only useful for receiving an AirPlay signal from a computer.

Also, they don't market AirPlay at all. I have a coworker that is known for loving Apple ( he quotes Steve Jobs in meetings). I was talking about AirPlay and he had no idea that this was possible with the Airport Express he was using with a printer. Since Apple doesn't make AirPlay speakers, they have allowed Sonos to fill this need by many that don't even want multiroom audio (which I believe is most of the market). If Apple would market Beats speakers (or rebrand them as Apple speakers) with AirPlay and open up AirPlay to its current capabilities, they would make an even larger impact in this market. As it is, they are leaving a big part of the market to other companies.

All that being said, I don't have a problem running a Mac mini for multiroom AirPlay. For the cost of two Sonos Connects, I can buy a new Mac mini (although audio can run on much older macs) and ~ three AppleTVs. The mini can be used to also provide video to my Appletvs and play HiRez formats. It is just a much more flexible setup and when they put Apple Music in the mix, it will be a much more compelling platform.

 

[campyguy]

So let me get this straight, you have expensive Amps, Speakers, to stream low quality music. Am I missing something? I would agree if you are listening to CD's or vinyl in home. The point of speakers like Beats and Echo is to stream either over wifi or Bluetooth. Cannot compare them to Sonos or Bose for high end purposes. Great value for streaming at less then $200 and you get the very impressive voice control of not only your music but many of life's essential tasks. I was not comparing Echo to Sonos and other high end systems, rather to Beats speakers. In that world, Echo is very competitive both in price point, sound, and use. Apple has all the infrastructure to do the same if not better. The purpose of this tread, for me, was to challenge Apple.

No offense to DudeDad, but you're not missing anything - especially the Swisstone (née Rogers Audio) variant of the LS3/5A, which were designed for listening to OTA BBC recordings that were broadcast in the 1970s - I was there, and my brother owned a pair as he owned more UK-import music than anyone else I've ever known. They were designed mainly for - and I'm agreeing with John Atkinson here - for chamber and classical music, and about half of the cost was in the cabinet. Never mind that the used cost for a decent pair has hovered around US$2k-$3k, and IHMO the Harbeth version that came out in '93 sounded much better - the year I graduated from college but held off until I went to London the following year.

Comparing the "Rogers" (they never built any, just the name and BBC design license were assimilated by Swisstone and "Rogers" sounds classier) bookshelf speakers to what Beats/Sonos owners listen to is comparing Apples to a custom PC in a nice, custom wooden enclosure - they're used for similar things, are both IMHO overpriced for what you get, and appeal to the owner's sense of cachet. And, I'll never critique another's choice in this regard - FWIW, my brother traded his speakers plus some cash for a pair of Magnepan Magneplanar Timpanis and I ended up with a pair of Thiel CS3.6 loudspeakers - I wouldn't compare either of those sets to anything else mentioned in this thread.

IMHO "Bluetooth" and "music" should never be used in the same phrase or sentence. Blasphemy, that. Cheers!

 

[Bananas Ananas]

I've bought $5 ear buds that sound better than Apple's.

Which model?

 

[Mr.Rubicon]

The most amazing speaker I have, Amazon Echo with Alexia. I am a Huge Apple Fan, however they missed the boat on this one. Echo is totally amazing and it is still in early development. Apple, pay attention, speakers are the way into home automation and driving music play.

I agree. Amazon Echo is phenomenal and is where Apple and Siri should be. I look forward to new commands being added.

 

[peterdevries]

Which model?

He hasn't, he is just trying to start a flame war. The quality of the Apple buds are actually very respectable and worth their price. What many people forget is that there might be some cheaper buds with good sound, but that these usually fail in other departments, such as strong connection of the cords to the plug and the drivers and sound isolation.

Most people that are here trolling the forums have not used or tried the newest Beats headphones and are just repeating the opinion of other people.

 

[errant]

Which model?

Some Maxell model at Wal Mart.

 

[Tech198]

this would have been good..

 

[fatboyslick]

Apples refund value in the UK is less than what we paid for our Beats XL. So we took it back to John Lewis where we bought it who refunded the full amount! Got to love John Lewis's three year warranty!!

 

[petef1]

I am a big Spotify user and have a SONOS Play 5. Apple Music not having a Sonos capable service is a big deal for me, and I will stay with Spotify no questions until that changes. When it does, I shall use the three month trial and run both Apple Music and Spotify in parallel. However, streaming simply and seamlessly to my Sonos is a big deal so this is a deal breaker for me.

 

[powers74]

Sigh. Just because they haven't put something out yet doesn't mean nothing is in development.

Exactly. My guess is Apple pretty much axed the entire hardware side of the company, and probably most of the software side too, and are busy cranking on something out with a more Apple look/feel.

 

[lazard]

Whether this is true or not, it still doesn't bring Apple IEM to the "most overpriced headphones/earbuds" category.

of course not, that title belongs to Beats

 

[appleye]

Bose SoundLink Mini for the win.

Man, you got that right! It may be a little expensive but it produces excellent quality music for such a very small package. Does Apple support this Bose product anymore?