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mox358

macrumors 6502a
May 22, 2002
555
407
Indiana
the much easier option : IBM

IBM isn't so hot with Windows anymore... they've dumped their all-in-one consumer pc and are focusing more on big buisness and linux. Linux and Mac OS X are very closely related. IBM also makes chips, (fast ones too) and knows how to speed them up. The demonstrated a 1GHz G3 last year before moto had even broke 800 mhz with the G4.

I'd love to see Apple buy altivec from moto and let IBM take over. IBM is a huge company and they're not going anywhere... they do a lot of buisness and aren't in the red every quarter like Moto.

The PPC architecture isn't bad... it's a lot better than x86, but while Intel and AMD put all these resources into x86, moto has really lagged behind with the G4.

Here's to hoping we stay with the PPC, but IBM lights a fire and gets up back to the Apple snail commercials. :)
 

alex_ant

macrumors 68020
Feb 5, 2002
2,473
0
All up in your bidness
Originally posted by DharvaBinky
Not really... as soon as they added "required" 3D-Now! instructions, you've ruled out Intel. Alternatively, you could just use AMD's x86-64 set which is *totally* dissimilar to the Intel Itanic. And AMD's crucial need for "legitimate" OEM customers would just scream for a special-edition of the chip that could include some MacOS specific "boot" instruction. *evil grin*

That's an idea - making OS X depend on a slightly modified AMD chip. I think that could work... not that I would want it to happen either... :)
Not that I want this to happen... I'm just playing SatanClara's Advocate... What ever happened to that processor (can't remember the name) which ran at a mere 100MHz but was massively parallel in-chip? I think going the *OTHER WAY* on MHz would be the best way to defeat the MHz myth. By significantly clocking *DOWN* it would bring attention to the fact that MHz was nothing... which could do nothing but bolster anti-Intel fervor...
This is why I brought up MIPS... MIPS is one of the only mainstream architectures left with that philosophy, along with Transmeta and the embedded architectures. Intel and AMD have embraced high-clock, high-power, high-heat, mad-performance, and nobody else can compete with that. (Heck, even AMD is having a hard time turning a profit with that philosophy.) That Register article that you linked to about the Transmeta parallel supercomputer could apply to MIPS just as well. Efficiency and parallelism over brute-force processing. Rather than more performance per CPU, the game becomes more performance per square (whatever unit of measurement).

I just wish I could grab Jobs by the turtleneck collar and shake him like mad, screaming "DO SOMETHING!!!! DO SOMETHING NOW!!!!" :)

Alex
 

AlphaTech

macrumors 601
Oct 4, 2001
4,556
0
Natick, MA
Re: the much easier option : IBM

Originally posted by mox358
IBM isn't so hot with Windows anymore... they've dumped their all-in-one consumer pc and are focusing more on big buisness and linux. Linux and Mac OS X are very closely related. IBM also makes chips, (fast ones too) and knows how to speed them up. The demonstrated a 1GHz G3 last year before moto had even broke 800 mhz with the G4.

I'd love to see Apple buy altivec from moto and let IBM take over. IBM is a huge company and they're not going anywhere... they do a lot of buisness and aren't in the red every quarter like Moto.

The PPC architecture isn't bad... it's a lot better than x86, but while Intel and AMD put all these resources into x86, moto has really lagged behind with the G4.

Here's to hoping we stay with the PPC, but IBM lights a fire and gets up back to the Apple snail commercials. :)

IBM also has the resources to dedicate to developing the next generation chip for Apple, since moto seems to have lost the ball. I also think that AMD would be hungry enough to jump at the chance to partner up with Apple to produce chips. With either AMD or IBM, we wouldn't have any warning labels on the computers ("intel inside" label). AMD's current line of processors are very stable, fast, and of high quality. I don't think it would take them too long to tool a few factories to make chips for Apple as well as themself, if they even need to go that far.

It will be interesting to see over the next year or so what happens with the processors Apple uses.
 

alex_ant

macrumors 68020
Feb 5, 2002
2,473
0
All up in your bidness
Re: Re: the much easier option : IBM

Originally posted by AlphaTech
AMD's current line of processors are very stable, fast, and of high quality. I don't think it would take them too long to tool a few factories to make chips for Apple as well as themself, if they even need to go that far.
Except AMD only has one factory, it's running at max capacity, and AMD needs all the yields it can get in order to keep its prices as low as it can in its fierce price war with Intel.
 

redAPPLE

macrumors 68030
May 7, 2002
2,677
5
2 Much Infinite Loops
Originally posted by sjs
Note that the latter part of the paragraph says OSX can be made to run on PC's and Tevanian says that is not currently (2000) in the plans.

Just think...you've got a Dell, you are sick of Windows. You order the $129 OSX and change your existing machine to OSX.

Huge profits for Apple. Plus those who like it...their next machine may be a Mac.

... or the other way around... everybody pays $ 129 for OS X.xx

and everybody buys pcs, 'cause they are "fast" :eek:

The problem in this equation is, people who just care for "performance" would buy pcs.

Scary idea...
 

tychay

macrumors regular
Jul 1, 2002
222
30
San Francisco, CA
To answer some Mac-centric questions...

Since this rumor has appeared in various forms over the years, I've used a Mac (or at least since the 486 was introduced), I thought I'd answer some very honest questions non-Windows-using, Unix-programming Mac users may have about this (to the others who are familiar, I apologize).

Is it possible to port MacOS to Intel-based systems?
First it must be clear what is actually meanted by this question. First, this means MacOS X only, NOT MacOS 9. Not the latter is impossible (after all, Macs have VirtualPC), just unrealistic. Second, this means porting it to x86 hardware, not the software that typically runs on it (i.e. we are not talking about running this on the "Win" part of Wintel). This means Intel AND AMD processors and chipsets, but Apple may choose to only support one particular thing.

How hard would this port be to accomplish?
Well technically this would depend on how all of Apple's closed-source stuff is written, and Aqua in particular. If we are talking about the core of the operating system (the microkernel Mach and the OS called Darwin) then the answer is this has already been done. You can go buy any old PC-clone and drop in the MacOS core right now, people do this all the time. In fact, Mac OS X is actually ported from the OpenStep operating system which came from the x86 world (or the old pre-PPC 68k world as NeXTStepP) and Darwin is (I believe) a variant of NetBSD which is part of the BSD tree of Unix (there is a nice diagram somewhere on the net that shows the "family tree" of Unix from the beginning days at AT&T in the early 70's to Darwin, FreeBSD, and Linux of today).
So in summary, it's already been done and is done daily. Porting the Mac GUI may be as "simple" as "clicking a button" and probably is

Will my mac software run?
No. First you have to realize that probably only applications made in Cocoa would run on this theoretical system. This is because Cocoa actually came from the NeXT world (If you ever wondered why all the Cocoa classes seem to begin with "NS", note that NeXTStep begins has the same two letters as initials). The Carbon and Classic applications would probably not run. Porting Carbon would mean porting an API that was never written on x86 and porting Classic is roughly equivalent to writing VirtualMac for the PC.

Will my mac "Cocoa" software run?
No. It would need to be recompiled in developer tools to do so. This means the developer would have to "hit a button" and create a separate version of the application especially for MacOS X for x86.

Well then what about classic?
Sorry no classic. If its any consolation, there should be no reason why you can't run Windows 95 (or possibly even Windows NT/2000/XP) within this theoretical MacOS X for x86. The Linux world does this all the time with a package called VMWare. Since it is almost native, the response would be quite fast--much faster than VirtualPC. I think possibly the early incarnations of Rhapsody used to run Windows 95 within a "Yellow Box" much the same way Mac OS ran in a "Blue Box" (what eventually became "Classic").

Great, why hasn't Apple done this?
That's a business question more than a engineering one. But I think before one discusses this, we have to understand exactly what the MacOS X loses by going this direction. Basically what you get is Linux with a good user desktop environment (not to knock Gnome and KDE, but they are unusable to someone without an engineering bent).

Like what? It's going to be slow as a dog?
No, actually it will probably be faster. Intel processors may be poorly architected and we can debate processor religion until we're blue in the face (I have a friend who works at AMD and one who works at Intel, both world headquarters are within one mile of where I live), but the reality even if it is crappy, the monkeys on Intel systems are typing twice as fast as the monkeys on Motorolas (currently) and they're more likely to type the complete works of Shakespeare, even if some the backspace key is stuck on the Intel ones. To get an honest appraisal, check out BareFeats (Mac bias), Tom's Hardware (AMD bias), and AnandTech (Intel bias) and merge the results.

Then what is the problem?
Hardware. The reason the port is so "easy" from an engineering standpoint is because most of the hardware drivers have already been written. Mostly they were written for Linux and ported to BSD. But anyone who has ever used Linux, FreeBSD, or even Windows knows the nightmare that is hardware quality and driver support.

I'll give you some examples: There is a line of Sony notebooks that to this day have an unpatched bug in the BIOS that prevents Linux machines from taking advantage of Advanced Power Management (Microsoft is aware of this and has Windows patch this bug on the fly at startup). HP specs all their desktops with a WinModem combo Ethernet/modem as the modem. This piece of crap card is put in, not because it it is a good modem (in fact it the worst one you can buy), and not because it is has ethernet built in (because almost all the motherboards already have an ethernet built-in) but because it is the cheapest modem card on the market. You can buy a particular set of Linksys 802.11 cards that will not work, will never work on Windows (even though it is made for Windows) simply because the model number embedded in them doesn't exist, so the windows driver won't recognize the card. Go to Frys sometime and notice that more than half of all peripherals are returns. I used to think that this was a because people bought the things, used them once, and returned them, but after using Windows and Linux systems, the reality is that people bougth them and, for one reason or another, couldn't get them to work and returned them. Standard operating procedure is to buy the cheapest thing possible that matches our spec (firewire without power, USB 2.0 without drivers, storage based on size, video card based on the latest nVidia chipset) , dial tech support, and try to install the thing. If it works, you can hang up the phone; if you can't get it to work, maybe by then the muzak will have stopped on tech support. If they can't help, you go back to Frys and buy another card. I'd like to emphasize that all this stuff is designed for Windows.

I've seen some of the smartest people in the world "laid low" by this process because they missed a detail like they accidentally pulling out the IDE cable when they closed their computer case, or not trying to remove all WEP security from their wireless point before installing their 802.11 wireless card.

Maybe this doesn't happen in the Mac world maybe because the platform is superior. But most definitely because Apple controls the quality and design of the hardware--there aren't 30 chipsets floating around, and the most popular chipset isn't the cheapest--same with Airport cards, modems, and virtually every other part that often comes standard with a Mac.

Don't believe me? Go pick up a copy of PC World and read it.

You'll get to remember the nightmare the "rest of us" (who use and administrate WinTel and Linux-x86 sometimes) have to deal with every day.

tychay@mac.com
 

Huked on Fonick

macrumors 6502
Jul 16, 2002
300
0
1 Loop
If apple did team up with intell who said anything about using the x86 family of chip? I am not really sure but i belelve that the Intel Itanium is not a x86 ckass chip. I am sure you could get OS X to run on an x86 class processer but i dont really see why you would want to. x86 processors came out what 7 years ago. Sure there are sevel different types but there are still x86. They come out with new classes of G3 and G4 chips all the time but (example the new Sahara chip in my Ibook" but we call it a G3 therefore it looks like they arnt advanceing as much. Personaly i think that apple should turn to IBM. Common MOTO can even make a decent cell phone. If they did decided to USE x86 class chips i am sure they could get os x to run on it and adapt aplications with some work. I dont think that the real problem. The problem would come with drivers and the like. Have any of you ever installed Linux on a x86 machine. Its a bitch you have have a lot smaller choice of hardware (software modems,DVD players, CD burners, etc) dont wonk (i dont know if they due now but they dident when i was using lunix.) OS X would have this same problem. I am sure that someone who knew what there where doing could make OS x work on a PC. The reason why OS X is the only version of unix that runs on a mac is because apple programed it to work with the componets in a mac it knows what the hell everything is. You can allready emulate OS x on a PC but you cant due dittly **** on it. Same thing with Virtual PC you can imulate windows on a MAC but you cant due dittly **** on it other than play solitare and run basic Apps no 3d, etc cant burn CDS etc. It would be to complex to make Virtual PC know what the hell all those things are and it would make it to big. also if you guys have ever noticed but windows has a HUGE section for drivers so all those different compents you buy dirt cheep work..... kinda where as mac everything is made for OS 10 and OS 10 is program the compents so different things work alot better and more fluently without the resorces errors and i GET ALL THE TIME on my PC.

So if apple did use x86 chips it unlikly that you would see os X on a dull and if you did it would probably run really ****ty unless dull decided to expand from a Hardware company and program os x to work with there hardware or use MAC OS X native hardware. Also wouldent apple have to give Dull permission to use use OS X on there computer i am not sure how the copy right properties of this work but i am sure that apple has the name OS X and OS 10 copy righted so i am sure that they would not call it MAC OS X.

Persoanly i dont want to see "Intell Inside on my computer" and i dont want to see a sticker that says "Designed for Apple OS X". i wouldent mind if apple use AMDs. AMDs are great chips the 3 win desktop computers i have ALL have AMD chips and so does the laptop. I leave them running 24/7 and i have yet to have a problem with the chip. Like someone siad earler its the MOBO that matters and i agree. The only problems i have ever had is with Microsuck windows giving me internal errors and resorce errors with my sound video card and modem.

I think that apple needs to defently find a faster cheeper chip from somewhere.

-Pat

Oh yea another reason why Dull can sell computers so cheeply is they spend NO money and RD they are building the same computers they did 5 years ago. They just put new chips from other people in there and buy everything elce. Apples are so expensive because they have a huge RD cost. I mean its takes alot of money to come up with the I Programs like Itunes and Imovie. do you ever see anything like Dulltunes?? on Dulls?

If you want a cheep computer that runs(kind) but is just like one from 5 years ago then DUDE YOUR GETTING A DULL

If you want a computer that looks cool:) runs great, has great apps, but costs alittle more then buy a MAC. thanks all i ahve to say.

my 2 cents
 

wdodd

macrumors member
Jul 18, 2002
42
0
I think it makes perfect sense for Apple to make a new generation of computers based on x86 processors and chipsets. They might be ready to do that in 2 years or so when more (most?) apps (and users) are on MacOSX.

When a 1GHz PowerPC costs ~$300 and a 2GHz Athlon costs ~$150 it's easy to see the economies involved. Those aren't volume discount prices that OEM's would pay, but you get the idea. Combine standard parts with Apple's engineering and you get a nice machine with all the bells and whistles (firewire, DVD-R, etc.) for a competitive price with the Wintel OEM's.

PowerPC has always felt like it is on the verge of death and yet still maintains momentum in some way. Still, I think Jobs' comment about having "options" once the transition to OSX is complete is very telling. Maybe the reasons that Apple stuck with PowerPC to date will be negated by OSX. The real question may be what will Apple do with VirtualPC / Red Box / etc. when the hardware is almost the same as a standard PC? Will they try to use that as a way to get into the corporate market? Or will they avoid making it possible to run Windows on native hardware on an Apple box?
 

alex_ant

macrumors 68020
Feb 5, 2002
2,473
0
All up in your bidness
Originally posted by wdodd
I think it makes perfect sense for Apple to make a new generation of computers based on x86 processors and chipsets. They might be ready to do that in 2 years or so when more (most?) apps (and users) are on MacOSX.

When a 1GHz PowerPC costs ~$300 and a 2GHz Athlon costs ~$150 it's easy to see the economies involved. Those aren't volume discount prices that OEM's would pay, but you get the idea. Combine standard parts with Apple's engineering and you get a nice machine with all the bells and whistles (firewire, DVD-R, etc.) for a competitive price with the Wintel OEM's.

I don't think Apple would ever want to compete with Wintel OEMs. It's not in Jobs' blood. He's been in the industry for two decades now, and every single product he's ever sold has been "upscale" - more expensive, but better, than the competition. The Lisa... the Mac... the NeXT computers... NeXT software... modern Macs.

The exception to this is, whatever superiority the Mac has been relying on for the past 18 years is rapidly vanishing. Apple's similarities with NeXT at this moment in time are quite profound. NeXT and Apple both had/have a great OS (the same one, actually!) and excellent software. They both sold/sell hardware that was/is really cool but really expensive. The difference is that NeXT hardware had no performance problems but sold terribly, whereas Macs have major performance problems but sell somewhat well. Both situations presumably impede profitability. 1) Will Jobs decide to repeat what he did at NeXT - port his wonderful OS on over to one or more other platforms and leave the hardware business altogether? Or, 2) will he hang on in the hardware business?

If he chooses 1, he risks Apple becoming another late-stage NeXT, with a great niche OS and great niche software that nobody really cares about. In this case, there will be no Apple around to buy him out like there was last time. But - and it's a long shot - he could potentially usurp the Windows monopoly.

If he chooses 2, he risks alienating the Mac faithful by selling them overpriced machines that suck in performance. Kind of like what he's doing today, but on a more advanced level. But - and it's a long shot - he could potentially establish a viable, STABLE, and HEALTHY alternative to Wintel - by that, I mean no more predictions of Apple's imminent demise every other day, and a platform that everybody knows will be healthy and fast for a long, long time.

What I wouldn't give to sit down with Steve, drug him, and make the bastard talk.

Alex
 

Wry Cooter

macrumors 6502
Mar 10, 2002
418
0
Maybe the worst that could happen would be a return to CHRP, or have the ability to run windows apps inside a window ala classic, at a performance rate similar to a real PC rather than a virtual PC.
 

Aciddan

macrumors member
Jun 4, 2002
90
1
Australia
Re: Re: Not gonna happen

Originally posted by ot13r32


The biggest problem for developers would presumably
be driver related. Assuming Apple addressed a standardized
proprietary supported hardware configuration (a single
mobo/chipset/cpu family), it seems as though they could
tackle this as well.


NFORCE?

Being a new mac user (February with a 14" iBook) and a long time wintel user, I honestly think that such a move to intel wouldn't be too bright for hardware sales.

Becoming a significant player in Microsoft's market would be an even bigger problem. I doubt Microsoft would be feeling warm and fuzzy with a wintel move...

As mentioned in earlier posts - it's about time that Apple/Motorolla and IBM work together are they going to get anywhere.

it's ironic isn't it? Apple and Big Blue needing each other - but this needs to happen. These three companies need each other: Apple (platform/OS), Motorolla and IBM (Processors).

Also (now here I go into rant mode), Apple also needs to get its hardware (internals) out into clone machines. Apple needs to flood the market with clones in order to get everyone thinking OSX (Apple can still make profits by licensing bits and pieces that make a clone).

Apple can then start selling OSX and have this as its major revenue stream rather than hardware. Moto/IBM make heaps of chips so they become happy (possibly even branding their own clones - heh, IBM/OSX box!).

of course I'm ranting so take(grainOfSalt)...

-- Dan, who really shouldn't have as much coffee in the morning =)
 

eric_n_dfw

macrumors 68000
Jan 2, 2002
1,517
59
DFW, TX, USA
Port to x86 - a little history

As others have said, OS X/Darwin has it's roots in OPENSTEP 4.2 (remember Rhapsody) which ran on 486 and Pentium boxes with specific hardware restrictions. It also ran on NeXT 680x0 machines.

Software developed to the OpenStep spec (notice the capitalization difference) put out by NeXT and Sun could be compiled to run on either of those versions of OpenStep as well as WinNT via OpenStep for Windows (what is now commonly known as the Yellow Box for windows) as well as Solaris and HP-UX using similar OpenStep Framework libraries. Those frameworks (the NS classes mentioned above) have evolved into the Cocoa we all know and love.

In the OPENSTEP Project Builder, when you built your app, you could tell it to compile for one or more of the 4 architectures, if you chose multiple ones it build what was called a "fat binary" that could execute on any of them; or, you could build binaries specifically for each platform.

Darwin is already running on a very limited set of x86 machines. I wouldn't be surprised if Avi and his guys have kept the Quartz & Aqua code as portable as possible too. In which case, Cocoa app's that stuck to the Cocoa frameworks should be a fairly simple re-compile.

I know very little about Carbon, but I would not think it would be easy to move them to x86 as entire API's would need to also be ported that never were written for x86 before. That could be a big deal as much of the large app's out there are not 100% Cocoa - including: Final Cut Pro, Photoshop, IE, Netscape, MS Office X, AppleWorks, etc...

On a side not, since OS X runs on a G3, AltiVec is not a requirement. (Although, doing any equivalent 3DNow! or SSE2 calls where they use AltiVec today would be nice)

Personally, I love the G4 (hence my sig line for the past several months) but I moved to Apple for OS X and love Final Cut Pro. I really could care less if it what chips it ran inside the box under my desk. I just want it to work and do it for a fair price.
 

wdodd

macrumors member
Jul 18, 2002
42
0
Originally posted by alex_ant
I don't think Apple would ever want to compete with Wintel OEMs[/B]
Maybe I was unclear. I don't mean that Apple would create boxes that would run Windows. I mean Apple would better compete with Wintel OEM's because their boxes would be a couple hundred dollars closer in price and the hardware specs would look similar.

What I expect is that Apple will create proprietary boxes that use all PC-standard components with a little ROM / custom BIOS in there that forces the hardware to find OSX (no Windows/Linux/etc.) and enables OSX (no OSX on wintel boxes w/o the ROM). This might be 2 years away based on my speculative interpretation of Jobs' comment that a year from now Apple will have "options" once the migration to OSX is more or less complete.

The other question I was trying to pose is... "if Apple has boxes that use PC components, will they promote VirtualPC as running Windows at native speeds?"
 

sageenos

macrumors member
Jan 5, 2002
57
0
South Carolina
Processor dependancy issues

Mac OSX is using the gnu compiler collection as it's main compiler, and gcc is already ported to various platforms so a simple recompile will suffice in the case of quite a bit of software. On the matter of altivec, Jaguar has gcc 3.1 with a modified math library to take advantage of altivec without jeopardizing application porting. So, if developers can stick to writing software without using hardware specific code it will just be a simple matter of using an x86 port of gcc instead of the ppc one to compile the software to be run on the x86 architecture.
The only matter then would be distributing software for both platforms. Open sourcing applications would solve that problem, but it would require users who might not be familiar with the development process to compile programs. Apple could possibly create a platform independant format for compiled apps that could translate the general code into a platform specific format at the first runtime. Probably an easier route would be to distribute two binaries and let the user choose what they need.
 

AmigaMac

macrumors member
Jul 18, 2002
43
0
I will jump ship if Apple goes Intel... no way am I going back to the x86 world!!

Helk I might as well go back to Windoze!!!
 

jefhatfield

Retired
Jul 9, 2000
8,803
0
Originally posted by AmigaMac
I will jump ship if Apple goes Intel... no way am I going back to the x86 world!!

Helk I might as well go back to Windoze!!!

intel and amd can make a chip for apple but it does not have to be x86

i am sure something can be worked out

is it easy?

perhaps not, but nothing is in this industry

we sent a man to the moon, so i don't think that intel or amd making a chip for apple is an impossibility
 

mccoma

macrumors regular
Jul 15, 2002
131
0
jumping ship for the 64-bit

At some point Apple will need to go to 64-bit for their processors. The current focus on video should be one of the big pushers (memory addressable without tricks). When this happens developers are going to recompile their apps. Endian issues aside (not lightly, but put them aside), this wouldn't be a bad time to switch if it is going to happen.

They really should be looking at a processor that can do two things: low heat / power and SMP capable (4+). MIPS would be interesting since it is manufactured by a lot of companies, but it has a embedded focus (other than SGI's designs). Make the Macs the platform for a lot of processors. "More storage - buy another drive, more speed - buy some more processors"
 

guerro

macrumors 6502
Jul 18, 2002
268
494
Parts Unknown
Moto is the problem

If Apple could just wrest control of Alti-Vec from Moto. Then tell Moto to take a flying leap at a rolling doughnut. Then tell IBM they are clear to roll this pig up and throw a strike. Meaning, IBM would have the green light to start making faster chips for Apple. And if IBM doesn't want to do it, then get AMD to make the chips. I think the key here is the fact that Moto is a huge anchor on yacht that is ready to set sail for greater things.

My 2
 

guerro

macrumors 6502
Jul 18, 2002
268
494
Parts Unknown
Moto is the problem

If Apple could just wrest control of Alti-Vec from Moto. Then tell Moto to take a flying leap at a rolling doughnut. Then tell IBM they are clear to roll this pig up and throw a strike. Meaning, IBM would have the green light to start making faster chips for Apple. And if IBM doesn't want to do it, then get AMD to make the chips. I think the key here is the fact that Moto is a huge anchor on yacht that is ready to set sail for greater things.

My 2¢:rolleyes:
 

MisterMe

macrumors G4
Jul 17, 2002
10,709
69
USA
Re: Re: Apple cannot "switch"

Originally posted by strider42


Apple uses a hardware rom to prevent such things, even on the current powerPC platform. Plus, the OS wouldn't be written to support any old random hardware. Just because a computer uses the same chipset doesn't mean the motherboard and other components are the same and supported (as evidenced by the fact that the OS install CD's that come with a mac won't work on newer or older machines that are fully capable of running the same version of the OS, apple updates the OS every single time a new machine comes out, whether or not they increase the version number)

Wake up and smell the '90's. Since the advent of Open Firmware, an open standard, the MacOS has been software exclusively.

Prior to Open Firmware, the MacOS was primarily ROM-based. It was effectively impossible to reverse engineer it
 

wdodd

macrumors member
Jul 18, 2002
42
0
Re: jumping ship for the 64-bit

Originally posted by mccoma
At some point Apple will need to go to 64-bit for their processors.
I'm glad you raised this point. 64-bit is likely 2 years away from reasonable acceptance in the x86 server market. Itanium2's improvements aside, Intel has a long, long ways to go before it wins over the Win2k server crowd (soon to be .NET Server crowd?). AMD has their 64-bit solution on the way as well.

I'll guess that it will be 4 years before 64-bit is entering the Wintel workstation/desktop market. From one point of view, Apple would score a marketing coup by delivering a 64-bit desktop solution in 3 years. Is that enough time to convert everyone to OSX and win the developers over with good cross-compilers?

And the real question, would 64-bit really help the graphics professionals? I understand the benefit to database apps....
 

MisterMe

macrumors G4
Jul 17, 2002
10,709
69
USA
Originally posted by Wry Cooter
Maybe the worst that could happen would be a return to CHRP, or have the ability to run windows apps inside a window ala classic, at a performance rate similar to a real PC rather than a virtual PC.

Boot your Mac to the the monitor. You will find that it is CHRP-based.
 

ibjoshua

macrumors 6502a
Jan 17, 2002
610
19
New Zealand
Re: Re: Re: Not gonna happen

Originally posted by Aciddan
it's ironic isn't it? Apple and Big Blue needing each other - but this needs to happen. These three companies need each other: Apple (platform/OS), Motorolla and IBM (Processors).

umm..
i think you'll find that neither IBM nor Motorola really give a damn about Apple.
most of Motorola's chips are used in embedded devices and IBM has it's paws in some much bigger honeypots.

as for the mac rom and the will it work? thread...
from what i can tell, if you want to make it work on a given chipset you will be able to do it eventually. as an earlier post said OS X is freeBSD at its core and versions of it already run on X86 chips. i have an old umax 900 (604e == G2) running OSX.1 (loaded for fun more than anything else) which just goes to prove that if you want it bad enough you can probably do it (especially if some anorak has done a bit of hacking and posted it on the net)

and in response to the guys talking about clones, where have you been? apple will not go down that road again. the clone makers didn't innnovate they just copied apple and undercut them with cheaper boxes. mac lovers like me bought them because when it comes down to it computers are still pretty expensive items and most of us (unfortunately) buy the functionality before the styling.


josh
 
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