Apple and Oracle Announce Plans for OpenJDK Java Implementation

[foidulus]

Except I recall the outrage being at Apple leaving the Java people stranded.

But seriously, Apple always does stuff like this. This makes me wonder if we won't see a VMWare/Apple announcement in the wake of the Xserve fiasco.

Or an Apple/Oracle hardware deal. Sun(alas no longer among us) and their successor Oracle make some really nice rack mounted boxes(and are second only to XServes in terms of aesthetic sexiness ). Being able to run OS X server on one of those would be undeniably awesome and really obviate the need for Apple to continue making server hardware.

 

[commander.data]

But seriously, Apple always does stuff like this. This makes me wonder if we won't see a VMWare/Apple announcement in the wake of the Xserve fiasco.

I'm very partial to this being the solution. OS X Server already allows virtualization on top of OS X Server. Opening up OS X Server for virtualization on top of any OS would greatly expand the market reach, avoid concerns of allowing OS X to be installed as a base on non-Macs since technically it's only in a VM, and means Apple is less directly involved in support and driver development.

 

[KnightWRX]

But I think a lot of dev shops called Oracle (ours did), not Apple, to complain, because they knew appealing to Apple was pointless.

And you think this deal popped up out of nowhere in a manner of weeks ? This was already being discussed and close to finalized when Apple discontinued support back in October, you can be sure of that.

Or an Apple/Oracle hardware deal. Sun(alas no longer among us) and their successor Oracle make some really nice rack mounted boxes(and are second only to XServes in terms of aesthetic sexiness ). Being able to run OS X server on one of those would be undeniably awesome and really obviate the need for Apple to continue making server hardware.

When Sun dropped purple from their boxes as the main color, the sexiness dropped about 10 folds.

I'm very partial to this being the solution. OS X Server already allows virtualization on top of OS X Server. Opening up OS X Server for virtualization on top of any OS would greatly expand the market reach, avoid concerns of allowing OS X to be installed as a base on non-Macs since technically it's only in a VM, and means Apple is less directly involved in support and driver development.

Maybe not any OS, but simply modifying the license to allow it to run on top of ESXi/ESX/vSphere would be plenty good. I don't need to run it as a guest on a Linux host or a Windows host (which could make it so people could run OS X on any PC hardware running VMWare workstation).

 

[bazzz]

Very good. I feel relieved. Seriously.

 

[John.B]

Why couldn't Apple announce this on the day they deprecated Java. Its a shame Apple don't put as much effort into their communications as they do in their creativity. There is absolutely no reason why these two couldn't be annouced at the same time...

If you'll remember, Apple didn't "announce" this, they mentioned in the documentation of the latest Java 6 update that Java 6 would be the last Apple-provided version.

Apple deprecated Java 6 before the OpenJDK Java 7 announcement because Apple was opening the Mac App store - where deprecated technology is not allowed in apps, and third party technology is also not allowed in apps.

Thus Apple did not want to be inundated with Java 6 apps in the Mac App store.

Except that bit about "Apple deprecated Java 6" is complete BS. You just made that up on the spot.

Apple said -- at the release of the latest Java 6 update -- they said would continue support Java 6, but not Java 7.

And, lo and behold, they are supporting Java 6, while the OpenJDK -- with help from Apple and Oracle -- is supporting Java 7.

Which isn't all the different from how Apple supports other open source projects; they contribute back updates and enhancements, but don't take the lead developing anything outside their own projects. That's the beauty of the BSD license.

 

[PeterQVenkman]

Thank god, people can shut up about this now.

There was a very simple way for Apple to avoid an uproar.

Good news, though.

 

[brainfrost]

Awesome news!

I've been quite nervous about the lack of details around this. This is great news for the OSX platform & Apple. I cannot emphesize this enough.

Been lurking on these forums for years, and don't post frequently. Hoping my post stresses the importance of this positive announcement.

 

[CFreymarc]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_0_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7A400 Safari/528.16)

To everyone who implied I was full of crap when I said this was in the works, "I TOLD YOU SO!"

I thought something was like this was in the works but you beat me to the punch. The buyout of Sun by Oracle let a lot of the old Java boys go to their Birkenstocks and circle of redwood trees full time. I'm glad to see this happen. Apple can concentrate on things more modern than this.

 

[commander.data]

Maybe not any OS, but simply modifying the license to allow it to run on top of ESXi/ESX/vSphere would be plenty good. I don't need to run it as a guest on a Linux host or a Windows host (which could make it so people could run OS X on any PC hardware running VMWare workstation).

Yes, on top of any OS might be a bit broad. But, I'm thinking the licensing terms specifically mentioning VMWare solutions might be a bit limiting. Something more along the lines of allowing OS X Server to run on top of any bare metal hypervisor would allow other competitors to VMWare to offer solutions while avoiding Linux or Windows hosts.

 

[ggbrown]

Apple should learn to make these announcements at the same time they announce they are discontinuing support for their own stuff. That would leave less people hanging with no migration path.

This one was pretty evident it was coming, I don't see why Apple couldn't just wait until all the details were finalized to simply make 1 announcement and thus cut off all the drama.

Well, at least we got two MacRumors stories out of it this way.

Seriously though, I can barely fathom the complexity of the negotiations that are required to establish such a partnership.

 

[Stella]

Drama = Advertisement. Think about all the people talking about Java being EOL, and what will we do now? Apple got two things out of this. First, some real idea of how important Java is to the community. Imagine what would have happened if most peoples reaction was: "meh."

Second all that beautiful free word of mouth advertisement.

Of course this sounds like a development community that is open (like say Ajax on the iPhone), and with the new app store for OS X, one that is closed (like the app store on the iPhone).

Sounds like win, win for the corporate guys.

Its bad communication, not some kind of marketing ploy so please stop trying to apolygize for Apple.

You can't jerk around your corporate customers like this, it builds distrust.

 

[Brinkman]

Apple should learn to make these announcements at the same time they announce they are discontinuing support for their own stuff. That would leave less people hanging with no migration path.

This one was pretty evident it was coming, I don't see why Apple couldn't just wait until all the details were finalized to simply make 1 announcement and thus cut off all the drama.

how about the drones on this forum stop jumping to conclusions with every rumor that enters their empty heads.

 

[wizard]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8B117 Safari/6531.22.7)

One thing that might of helped is for people to look up the word deprecated. The other thing Apple never announced this the way some are indicating. Plus Steveo cleared up the whole issue in one short E-Mail response.

Instead of trying to read something in the most horrible way possible people need to learn to read between the lines.

All this is well and good but I still believe that it us rather stupid to invest in Java based code. Jave really needs to be turned over to a standards organization before I would find a reason to reccomend it. What is really the underlying issue here is that oracle could screw the whole Java industry on a whim.

 

[gudin]

Apple PR doesn't get Apple fans

People are all pissed about the way Apple handled this, but they didn't actually "Announce" they were deprecating the runtime for Java, they simply added that line in the release notes for a Java update. This article is about an actual press release sent out by the PR teams.

The problem here is that people that follow Apple REALLY FOLLOW APPLE. I don't know too many other companies that would get the level of scrutiny for a release note the day an update is released.

The same thing happened when Apple announced that they were no longer building tools for WebObjects. All sorts of press popped up about how they were killing WO. They weren't. They simply were letting the Open Source tools everyone was already using be the officially supported tools, rather than trying to build their own. Then, a couple years later, they stopped bundling WO with Snow Leopard by default, and the process happened all over again. WO is actually more thriving now than in a very long time, despite multiple hyperbolic story lines about it being dead based on individual release notes over the course of many years.

We just need to take a deep breath.

 

[BornAgainMac]

I also want Oracle 11g release 2 available for the Mac while they are at it.

 

[basjhj]

Hope they have something coming to replace the Xserves!

Like buying Oracle's hardware business?

 

[cmaier]

Eh. All this means is all those folks on the other thread who were speculating about some Jobsian conspiracy to outlaw Java and impose dictatorial control on what gets run on Mac OS X will just move on to other "evidence" for their preconceived conclusions. (Probably they'll just continue to misinterpret Apple's failure to preinstall flash as equivalent to Apple banning flash).

 

[nsayer]

You can continue running OS X based Java server environments.

The 6 companies that are doing this will be glad to hear it.

 

[KnightWRX]

how about the drones on this forum stop jumping to conclusions with every rumor that enters their empty heads.

Rumor what ? Official Apple documentation is not rumors.

People are all pissed about the way Apple handled this, but they didn't actually "Announce" they were deprecating the runtime for Java, they simply added that line in the release notes for a Java update. This article is about an actual press release sent out by the PR teams.

Release notes are official documentation. They "announce" the changes. So yes, they did actually announce they were deprecating their version of the Java runtime.

 

[Peabody]

The 6 companies that are doing this will be glad to hear it.

Hey! There's at least 7 other people besides me that run FileMaker Server on OS X - take that back!

Sheesh...

 

[mdatwood]

Except that bit about "Apple deprecated Java 6" is complete BS. You just made that up on the spot.

No he didn't. Read the press release from Apple:

As of the release of Java for Mac OS X 10.6 Update 3, the Java runtime ported by Apple and that ships with Mac OS X is deprecated.

Apple deprecated the JVM, and I'm sure one of the side motives was to proactively forbid any app store apps written in Java.

 

[quinntaylor]

Why couldn't Apple announce this on the day they deprecated Java. Its a shame Apple don't put as much effort into their communications as they do in their creativity. There is absolutely no reason why these two couldn't be annouced at the same time...

It must feel liberating to claim there is "absolutely no reason" without being privy to the internal details of negotiations between Apple and Oracle. Yeah, it's not as though an announcement of this magnitude would take more than a few minutes to decide on anyway...

And seriously, whenever someone suggests that Apple isn't careful about their communications, I tend to put that person on my crazies list. Apple is a master of communication and marketing. Virtually everything they do is meticulously planned. People may disagree with their tactics, but their long-term strategy certainly works well. Carefully staged communication can get people talking way more than run-of-the-mill PR statements.

 

[Kenrik]

I think there are a BUNCH of people who need to apologize to Apple.

And I think the same will happen when Apple brings out a 4U Rack mountable Mac Pro.

 

[Stridder44]

Thank god, people can shut up about this now.

We can dream can't we? They'll always find something to bitch about. Now it's, "they could have announced this the same day blah blah blah".

Anyway, good to hear. Although I figured something like this was in the works. There was no way Apple would completely abandon Java like that.

Except that bit about "Apple deprecated Java 6" is complete BS. You just made that up on the spot.

And now everyone knows you didn't bother to read the whole article.

 

[dshelby]

Possibilities?

I am very excited to see this. I would much rather develop with Java than ObjC. I hoping they bring this option to developing for the iOS platform. They desperately need it. ObjC is such a pain to develop with when compared to .NET. Java will level the development playing field quite a bit.