Good to know. Maybe this would be a sign for some people to stop going nuts and jumping to conclusions.
..but it probably won't
This is MacRumors ya know!
..but it probably won't
This is MacRumors ya know!
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple and Oracle Announce Plans for OpenJDK Java Implementation
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
And it will be equally pathetic. Seriously, the Mac Pros are not servers, they have no processing density at all, they are not online serviceable and they are power hogs.
In the IT world, vendors usually don't let their customers jump to conclusions. They give them detailed and complete information right off the bat. Jumping to conclusions usually means jumping vendors.
It would have been so easy for Apple to omit that bit from the release notes and just announce everything today, after the deal was done.
As always you believe yourself to be correct. I work in IT too and for someone to panic and jump ship over a tiny release note is ridiculous. Try and justify your Apple hate all you want just like you do in every other thread of yours but its completely idiotic for anyone to think that any OS is going to abandon Java. Like I said before, anyone who thinks that doesn't know much about the computer industry.
As far as your constant cry of "people thinking apple is right all the time" no one said that apple is always right. No company is. Yes, it would be nice to have roadmaps but what we are saying is people are crying and getting worked up over absolutely nothing. Not once did Apple say they were dropping Java on OSX.
Never going to happen.
Apple tried making Java a first class Cocoa citizen, even before they added cool stuff like properties, closures (blocks), etc to Objective C. And failed miserably.
Objective C is far more advanced, and is way too conceptually different from Java for it to ever happen.
That being said, as John Siracusa talked about a few months ago, Apple needs a managed language to be a first class citizen in the future.
It wont be Java, but maybe an Obj-C lite?
Awkward timing
Agree. Announcing this first would have saved some people a lot of grief.
Anyway, this is how the Android bozos should have done it. Not with their own proprietary license-violating Dalvik JVM.
Great news! Though it really should have been announced at the same time as the deprecation of the old packages.
Agree. Announcing this first would have saved some people a lot of grief.
Anyway, this is how the Android bozos should have done it. Not with their own proprietary license-violating Dalvik JVM.
They may not have said it but they certainly act like it. There is a word for these, "Steve Jobs + Larry Ellison are best friends" members, it's called being a, "fan boi".
Also it is reasonable to get worked up if your paycheck depends on Java support for OSX. Java being abandoned on OSX may be unlikely but it doesn't mean that new JDKs are assured to be available, or that Swing features will be available natively rather than via X11. These questions aren't answered because Apple didn't have a plan, they just decided not to continue developing their JVM, and then hoped that pressure would force someone else to pick it up.
It's a dick move on Apple's part. Everyone sees it except the "fan bois".
I told a vendor I would jump ship if they didn't update the retardly old Tomcat installation they shipped and supported, seeing how it had so many exploits in it. Funny, they didn't think I was panicking, they understood the need to keep up with updates and that leaving paying customers hanging with no migration path was bad business. I have now been assured that in a matter of weeks, they would have official support and a shipping update for Tomcat in their product.
And Apple hate ? Where did you get that I hate Apple ? Why would I buy their products if I hated them ? You're not even making sense.
But they did. Not getting updates for Java is equivalent to dropping it. For a period of a few weeks, Java developers were basically told there would be no updates anymore, and thus it was Java 6 and the current update level or bust.
There was no announcement from Oracle, no nothing as far as continued support goes. If you're on the verge of starting a project or early enough into one, you don't take the chance on OS X. It has nothing to do with panic, and everything to do with proper planning. You don't spend money on uncertainty.
Anyone who knows anything about the computer industry knows that. I was even on Apple's side for this, they needed to drop their own Java runtime, it was always late and it wasn't work they should've been doing in the first place. However, there's a way to deprecate stuff that doesn't result in bad will from your user base and this was not it. Anyone trying to claim people were panicking are indeed just saying "Apple was right in how they did this!".
Peoples livelihoods depend on this announcement. If it were you, would you "shut up about it?" I suspect not.
People weren't jumping to conclusions, there were making a logical deduction from the facts. 1. Apple excludes Flash from iOS and iOS App Store. 2. Apple announces they are deprecating Java and disallowing Java apps on the Mac App Store. I think it was reasonable to be concerned that they were treating Java like they treated Flash.
They should have made today's announcement in conjunction with the deprecation announcement, simple as that. If you are a typical consumer, losing Java is no big deal. If you are an enterprise that has spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on Mac hardware for Java developers, the handling of this was incredibly unsettling.
Fact.... I tell Facts
It's actually fact.
http://www.allaboutstevejobs.com/bio/long/08.html
FROM THE ARTICLE:
The first talks of Steve Jobs going back to Apple started in 1995, even before Gil Amelio was named CEO. In December of that year, Steves friend Larry Ellison, the founder and CEO of Oracle and one of the worlds richest men, talked about making a hostile takeover bid for Apple in the media and on his website. All the arrangements were made for Oracle and other investors to purchase the company for about $3 billion and install Steve as its new boss. Steve later explained that he was the one who decided against it at the last minute:
Bruce
It's actually fact.
http://www.allaboutstevejobs.com/bio/long/08.html
FROM THE ARTICLE:
The first talks of Steve Jobs going back to Apple started in 1995, even before Gil Amelio was named CEO. In December of that year, Steves friend Larry Ellison, the founder and CEO of Oracle and one of the worlds richest men, talked about making a hostile takeover bid for Apple in the media and on his website. All the arrangements were made for Oracle and other investors to purchase the company for about $3 billion and install Steve as its new boss. Steve later explained that he was the one who decided against it at the last minute:
Bruce
Last edited:
Not once did I ever mention Steve Jobs and Larry Ellison. Waving the "fanboy flag" simply means you have no real argument to stand on. I already stated it would have been nice for Apple to provide a road map, but i'm not getting bent out of shape because they didn't. I fail to see how that makes me any type of fanboy.
I never said what they did was right, but I sew no reason to panic. No OS in their right mind would drop Java support. Sun has always updated a lot of their own stuff, it only makes sense that they continue to do it. Lots of people myself included figured this was the way apple was going with this.
So please explain to me the difference. Are you saying that we should ignore developer release notes and that nothing is true until it's moved to a PR section of the Apple website? Why have developer release notes then?
Deprecated means it's going away. Apple will no longer build java for OS X. They punted the ball with the hope Oracle would pick it up. If they already had something in the works, it was poor form to announce the deprecation and not at the same time announce that Oracle was going to handle it going forward. This kind of thing is exactly what keeps enterprise away from Apple, the poor communication and lack of any sort of roadmap.
I said the same thing in the last thread, that it was sure that Oracle was going to pick it up. It still doesn't mean Apple was right and that people were "panicking". I quite understand the few devs who felt this uncertainty was unacceptable and that a few weeks of it is enough to drop projects or change plans I'm sorry to say.
To say people are panicking when project management is involved is quite disingenuous again. When a budget is concerned, you don't leave anything to uncertainty.
A sloop is a type of sailing vessel. OK, so you certainly didn't really care or already knew.
Of course, since its on the internet it must be a fact! Just like when you pretended to have worked for Apple.
You mean he doesn't do that anymore ?
All his posts still reek of "I'm pretending to be affiliated or close to Apple". Bugs the hell out of me.devs
Sorry guys, but I think it was rather silly to panic about this. I'm a full time Java dev, one who in fact works full time with WebObjects. I was if anything MORE tied to apple than the rest of you, and I was not worried in any immediate sense, because it was obvious, IMHO that some solution to replace the in house runtime would be available very soon. Java is too significant to Apple.
In any event, they did not ever say they were eliminating it, they said the current version (Java 6) would be the last version supported directly by them, and the same day said third parties and/or Oracle directly would be better able to do this. Even in the worst case scenario, it would only affect apps you wanted to develop in post Java 6 frameworks, at some time years in the future. Even then, Java can deploy on anything, so it still would be primarily a basis to get a new, non-apple machine to develop on. Again, even that wildly unlikely case was nothing to panic about.
I just don't think it was worth the panic.
Sorry guys, but I think it was rather silly to panic about this. I'm a full time Java dev, one who in fact works full time with WebObjects. I was if anything MORE tied to apple than the rest of you, and I was not worried in any immediate sense, because it was obvious, IMHO that some solution to replace the in house runtime would be available very soon. Java is too significant to Apple.
In any event, they did not ever say they were eliminating it, they said the current version (Java 6) would be the last version supported directly by them, and the same day said third parties and/or Oracle directly would be better able to do this. Even in the worst case scenario, it would only affect apps you wanted to develop in post Java 6 frameworks, at some time years in the future. Even then, Java can deploy on anything, so it still would be primarily a basis to get a new, non-apple machine to develop on. Again, even that wildly unlikely case was nothing to panic about.
I just don't think it was worth the panic.
With such a narrow mind, I'd never hire you...
There are plenty of ObjectiveC developers that aren't that good either, and who are incapable of learning another langauge too. I've seen plenty of ObjectiveC ( Java and .Net ) crapware... the language doesn't automatically make an application great. The skill level of developers in any langauge varies.. I've known great developers in Java, ObjectiveC etc, and the reverse is true - they should rethink their development careers ( and move onto Project Management instead
)Java and .net have their place, as does ObjectiveC. For example, I'd *never* develop server side applications in ObjectiveC, I'd probably use Java. Likewise, I wouldn't write an OSX app in Java, but instead use ObjC.
Last edited:
With such a narrow mind, I'd never hire you...
I can deduce by the fact that Buffer overflows are a dime a dozen, that all C and C++ programmers are utter crap and wouldn't know their sizeof(char *) from their sizeof(char) if it bit them in the face.
Thus all software written in C is crap. Known fact.
Sarcasm aside, I found that post hilarious too. Talk about the uninitiated talking about things they have no clue about.
+10 interwebs!!
I swear that way too many people on this board only get their daily exercise by jumping to conclusions (usually by misreading the original post and by reacting to each other's paranoia).
There is slightly more here from Henrik Ståhl, Oracle's official spokesperson for Java SE.
http://blogs.oracle.com/henrik/2010/11/oracle_and_apple_announce_openjdk_project_for_osx.html
http://blogs.oracle.com/henrik/2010/11/oracle_and_apple_announce_openjdk_project_for_osx.html
There is also a post from Mike Swingler of Apple's Java engineering group which talks a little about their predicted open source roadmap.
http://lists.apple.com/archives/Java-dev/2010/Nov/msg00104.html
http://lists.apple.com/archives/Java-dev/2010/Nov/msg00104.html
So, this is great news for a Friday. Sounds like the open source project will get much of Apple's great Swing implementation plus eAWT/eIO (integration with Apple Finder GUI / access to Apple filesystem extensions). Those were the main things I was concerned about losing if Apple did not contribute to an open source OS X project. Any move to a new JDK would've been years behind without these Apple contributions.
Reading between the lines, it sounds like Apple is committed to making an open source Java 6 port available to the OpenJDK community, and Oracle is responsible for making Java 7 happen from that.
Apple's commitment to Java 6 on Lion is the icing on the cake. It'll be interesting to see if that ends up being based on the current JDK from Apple or the new OpenJDK one.
Reading between the lines, it sounds like Apple is committed to making an open source Java 6 port available to the OpenJDK community, and Oracle is responsible for making Java 7 happen from that.
Apple's commitment to Java 6 on Lion is the icing on the cake. It'll be interesting to see if that ends up being based on the current JDK from Apple or the new OpenJDK one.